Cheapest handgun you would trust for defense...

Flatbush Harry,

So, what's that Colt worth today? I bet not as much as you think your life is.

The S&W Shield 9mm is supposed to be a pretty respected weapon, and my buddy just got one for $250, after the $75 rebate. Should he be ridiculed because he didn't spend $400? Should the guy who did be ridiculed because he didn't spend $600?

Should I be ridiculed because I don't upgrade to a brand-new, 60K European crossover vehicle each year to get the latest safety features? Or because I don't fit my home with sandbag walls, turret guns, interior fire suppression, and a bomb shelter, or my vehicle with bulletproof panels and glass, and drive with a Nomex suit and helmet? Like you said, though, reasoning by analogy is suspect, so don't take me seriously here. It's just that I hear this get thrown around a lot at gun shops and gun shows, then typically see those same people leave in some, well, "less-upgraded" rides, despite the fact any one of them is likely in more danger driving/riding in a vehicle than from being targeted for robbery or rape.

I never got that cliche, or the algorithm behind it.

Picked this up for the wife.
$300 with box, papers and two sets of grips.
A gently used S&W 442.
Lightweight and dependable.
.38+p

On a features basis, I'd estimate the old Colt is a $4,500 pistol. Given it is used, it's probably a $2,700-$3,200 pistol, depending on the buyer. Jim Hoag was one of the country's finest pistol smiths through the '90s and early 2000s. He retired earlier this year at age 79. People who know his work would pay up...those who don't could compare his work to a number of other big-time, expensive smiths like Wilson, Volkmann, Nighthawk and Ed Baer. I've bet my life on Hoag's work for nearly 40 years so, to me, this gun is priceless.

Now, I'm not ridiculing you or anybody...that's not my style. I merely said, for an EDC on which you'd bet your life, you pick a caliber, a platform and a configuration that works for you. If your life is valuable to you, you pick a totally reliable gun that won't malfunction, whose configuration and features fit your needs and that you can hit what you aim at EVERY time. Indeed, for all your equipment, you pick what meets your needs with reliability.

My gun has a good trigger that breaks like a glass rod, excellent combat/target sights with no sharp edges, a checkered front strap and checkered flat mainspring housing for non-slip grip, a full-length recoil spring guide for smooth, consistent operation, a beveled mag well (in case I need a reload), a Gold Cup trigger (works better than a shoe and is adjustable for backlash), milled top of slide to kill reflection for my aim, fitted barrel with built-up bead and a plain barrel bushing for accuracy and reliability (the old factory collet bushings were prone to breakage) for accuracy and reliable function, and a hard-chromed frame to prevent rust. Also I had the hammer bobbed and a built up grip safety so I won't get bitten by the hammer. I consulted with Mr. Hoag in his shop in Canoga Park, CA and selected the mods that he recommended for the biggest impact on utility, reliability and accuracy. His advice and work were impeccable, and 38 years later, were spot on.

Although unrelated, I took a similar approach in dealing with John Bianchi at Frontier Gunleather, in 2002, when selecting a complete gunbelt for CAS. He made recommendation based on his half-century of experience and knowledge...his work was impeccable and his recommendations completely functional. I still use the gunboat proudly.

In all things, I seek out knowledge, experience and quality. YMMV.

Cheers,

Harry

^^ Saw an Army-issue A1 in a pawn shop a few months back. They were looking to get $3,500 for it, but admitted they didn't know fully what they had, and a Colt collector was supposed to be coming by later that day to appraise it for them. Of course, had I ended up with it, I would not have put it into defense duty. I'm not a "1911-guy" at this point, anyway, having only recently acquired my first pistol of the type, and it's the kind that would draw snobbery from some, being a Tisas-Zig gun. On top of that, I'm a left-handed, double-action-trained shooter.

But, I bet that Tisas, given the impressions I've formed of it already, would make a formidable weapon in the hand of anyone skilled with the 1911 handgun.

swampcrawler said:

Let me start by saying I'm not looking for a super cheap pistol or anything, I'm fine dishing out the bills for a modern high capacity auto from a reputable maker.

BUT, I thought this may make an interesting discussion. If you were (or are) pinching every penny, and want/need a handgun to defend self and family if such a sittuation should arise, what would it be?

For me, I think it would be the good ole Makarov or one of its cousins/clones. They seem to still be available for a little over 200 so I suppose around 250-275 once shipped and transferred. They are reliable, smallish, and fire a relatively useful round.

So.. what's the cheapest handgun you would trust?

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Ask yourself this, "What are the cheapest tires you would install on your car to protect yourself and your family?".... Kind of makes you think. You certainly don't want to be culpable for a death or injury to anyone you know because you went "cheap" on tires. By the same token anything that goes *BANG* next to your head deserves the same consideration. If you are ever going to "pinch" on money buying a gun is not the place.

I would ALWAYS go with a preferred brand name. No Rossi, Hi Points, Taurus, Bersa, and etc., for me. My minimum would be Ruger. My maximum (obviously) I consider this to be the best brand - FN)

How about "free?"
As in what you've inherited from a relative?
There are plenty of quality revolvers and war souvenirs out there.
If they were considered good enough for service in WW2/Korea/'Nam, or with a PD, then I'd certainly consider it (after having it checked out by a
'smith)

Hokkmike said:

Ask yourself this, "What are the cheapest tires you would install on your car to protect yourself and your family?"

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I always get a kick out this kind of argument. people will say they won't buy used tires for their car because it is somehow unsafe, but they drive around with 4 used tires on their car.

Personally, I think that any firearm that is reliable, that you have some experience shooting, and is available to you when you need it is adequate. I don't think the brand name matters any. You mentioned Rossi, Hi Points, Taurus, and Bersa as brands that are unacceptable to you. Yet all of these brands produce at least some reliable firearms. Rossi is probably the most iffy of the bunch but even then there are some decent stuff that they make that is highly reliable. Virtually anyone that owns and actually shoots a HiPoint will tell you that they are about as reliable as they get.

And it is just plain fact that every firearm company makes some lemons. If you do not put a few hundred rounds down range, you just don't know. The other issue with firearms, especially semi-autos is that they can be ammo dependent. While some will shoot just about anything, others are a little finicky and you will not know this unless you put some lead downrange. Some of the the more expensive handguns can be the most finicky.

Incidentally, SW still has their rebate program going on for Shields. $75. Lots of places Shields are selling in the < $350 range online. Take $75 off that and even figuring in FFL fees and shipping it is a heck of a deal. Use the money saved and buy ammo and put some lead downrange.

ilbob said:

I always get a kick out this kind of argument. people will say they won't buy used tires for their car because it is somehow unsafe, but they drive around with 4 used tires on their car.

Personally, I think that any firearm that is reliable, that you have some experience shooting, and is available to you when you need it is adequate. I don't think the brand name matters any. You mentioned Rossi, Hi Points, Taurus, and Bersa as brands that are unacceptable to you. Yet all of these brands produce at least some reliable firearms. Rossi is probably the most iffy of the bunch but even then there are some decent stuff that they make that is highly reliable. Virtually anyone that owns and actually shoots a HiPoint will tell you that they are about as reliable as they get.

And it is just plain fact that every firearm company makes some lemons. If you do not put a few hundred rounds down range, you just don't know. The other issue with firearms, especially semi-autos is that they can be ammo dependent. While some will shoot just about anything, others are a little finicky and you will not know this unless you put some lead downrange. Some of the the more expensive handguns can be the most finicky.

Incidentally, SW still has their rebate program going on for Shields. $75. Lots of places Shields are selling in the < $350 range online. Take $75 off that and even figuring in FFL fees and shipping it is a heck of a deal. Use the money saved and buy ammo and put some lead downrange.

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Good post, but remember - reliability does not equal safe.....

I would say a used S&W .38 Special revolver like the model 15 I bought for $275.00. It has been dead reliable, accurate and easy to shoot with the 125 grain hollow point +P ammo I use. I also bought a STOEGER Cougar 9 m.m. for 279.00, but have not used it enough to vouch for it.
I have an old CHARTER ARMS Undercover .38 Special and CZ82 that I would use if necessary. The CHARTER holds only 5 rounds and is a real handful with +P, so I load it with some old FEDERAL Nyclad 125 grain H.P. ammo I still have. The CZ is a lot more practical, but the magazine release is hard to use. I paid less than $200.00 each for these guns.
Last, I had a BROWNING 1910 in .380ACP which I bought for $275.00. This was a brilliant gun design, but I needed money to buy the much more modern and safer GLOCK 42. The CHARTER and BROWNING made great pocket pistols.

Jim

The last place that I want to, and will never, economize is on a gun that I will have to bet my life upon.

Cheapest I'd ever go is a Glock, S&W or a Springfield. With a little shopping, any of them can be had for a little bit more than $500.

Zach S said:

P Series Rugers usually fall on the high side of the $200-300 range.

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I'd sell my Ruger P95DC for just $200. It's reliable, just feed it +p. The magazines are the only thing about the P95 that give me pause.

My answer to this thread is a stock Glock and 1000 rounds. I won't trust anything less.

The problem with certain brands and models of guns many people have mentioned is that they can be very hit or miss. Some are good, some are not. Many of us have multiple guns, and we have the money to fix or replace a gun if it has trouble, and have other options to use until it does prove itself. The problem is, most people buying cheap guns don't have that luxury, they need it to work from the start. For that reason, I wouldn't recommend new Taurus guns (sorry Taurus fans, I used to be one of you, sometimes one of the loudest), Rossi, and definitely not the cheaper guns like Cobra or Jennings. Kel Tecs can be great, but many aren't so they need some real wringing out to be sure you have a good one, so not really a good choice for the shooter on a budget who needs something reliable now.

There are a ton of great guns in the $300-400 range right now, and for some people that is a lot of money, so to be challenging, I'll look more to the $200-300 range. I'm definitely leaving out used guns I bought a decade or more ago in that range since today, that simply isn't their price range anymore. I'm also leaving out guns like the Shield because, while with the current rebates they can be had under $300, that usually isn't the case. Also, I'll only include used guns if they are regularly in the $200-300 range (not guns you might find at that range if you look long and hard enough and you get a little lucky).

My list:

Older used Taurus revolvers and pre-Taurus Rossi revolvers

Bersa

Used S&W SD9VE and SD40VE (new, at least around here, they run about $350 or a tad more)

Ruger LCP if they want something very small


Bump up to about $350, there are quite a few good ones. Me personally, I'd probably go with a used S&W M&P (might take a little looking at that price, but it isn't too uncommon right now) or a new S&W SD series (either 9mm or .40 would be fine).

Life would be easier if the more expensive thing was always the better thing. Too bad it's not true.

A man buys a handgun at 9:00am for $2,000. He shoots a few hundred rounds through it. It functions perfectly, but he decides he doesn't like it. He eats the loss and sells it to you at noon for $1,500. If more expensive always means better, you bought a handgun not as good (maybe only 75% as good) as the one he bought... but that is obviously not the case.

Chaim made a good point. It can be situational. Nowadays I can buy an inexpensive handgun without any worries chiefly because I don't need it. I have plenty of other ones to use. If I shoot it a bunch and it is reliable, it might end up in my CC or HD rotation. If not, nbd. I could wait to have it repaired, or just get rid of it. When I was young and poor, if I suddenly needed a handgun and didn't own any, it would be a much bigger decision.

It seems like it kind of depends on who is buying it. When I was young and didn't know much about handguns, I couldn't have looked at a case full of them and known which might be best for me. Now I can carefully examine them (especially the used ones) and be able to judge with good accuracy that this one or that one, though modest in price, seems to be in good working condition and should be adequate for my needs.

Maybe I just got lucky but I inherited a Rossi M68 , 38 special snubbie and it is one of the best pistols I own. Its very solid and tight, nothing loose or sloppy and is very accurate. I was skeptical of the gun at first but the more I handle it and began shooting it I was very surprised and pleased with the gun. It's a keeper.

Under $300, there are a ton of them. I have some of these:

SAR K2P 9mm $250 shipped.
SAR CM9 G2 9mm $267 shipped.
Any of the S&W Shields under $300 after rebate. I don't like them much, but they work.
One of the S&W 6906's that look like crap but work fine out there right now.
Taurus PT111 G2, I have one that's new in the box, and another with about 1000 rounds through it with one jam, on the 3rd shot.
Any of the old nasty looking S&W or Ruger guns out there that shoot fine, but look awful.

swampcrawler wrote:
So.. what's the cheapest handgun you would trust?

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The cheapest handgun I would trust is also the cheapest handgun I have trusted and used to defend myself; it is an RG-25 25 ACP pistol that I bought well used for $25.

Acera said:

CZ-82



.

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I agree, I have carried a CZ-82 for 10 years and it is better than a lot of todays NIB pistols

ibfestus said:

I agree, I have carried a CZ-82 for 10 years and it is better than a lot of todays NIB pistols

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Ditto !

Flatbush Harry wrote:
If your life is valuable to you, you pick a totally reliable gun that won't malfunction, whose configuration and features fit your needs and that you can hit what you aim at EVERY time.

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More years ago than I care to care to count (or that I should admit to), I picked up my little RG. After I cleaned it up and replaced the magazine it has been 100% reliable with no malfunctions, failures to feed or failures to extract. It fits my hand, points naturally and across a room, I can hit the center of mass of anything I am it at.

So, it fits your criteria as well as mine.

I have had to draw it twice. In both cases the assailant decided to retreat making it unnecessary to shoot. So, it has done exactly what a self defense gun is supposed to do; protect me from the bad guys.

And all for less than a dollar per year.

hdwhit said:

More years ago than I care to care to count (or that I should admit to), I picked up my little RG. After I cleaned it up and replaced the magazine it has been 100% reliable with no malfunctions, failures to feed or failures to extract. It fits my hand, points naturally and across a room, I can hit the center of mass of anything I am it at.

So, it fits your criteria as well as mine.

I have had to draw it twice. In both cases the assailant decided to retreat making it unnecessary to shoot. So, it has done exactly what a self defense gun is supposed to do; protect me from the bad guys.

And all for less than a dollar per year.

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After all the above posts, why take a chance ?
We all are not guaranteed tomorrow.