Considering a .380 (as a backup)

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chaim

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(If you don't like long posts, go ahead and skip this intro and skip to "Criteria" and "...the guns...").

Quite a while ago I ruled out small .380s. I don't really trust the caliber, especially with the small 9mms out there. They are best as pocket guns, but I carry a lot in my pockets and thus I hate pocket carry (where am I going to put the stuff that goes in my right pocket when the left is already full).

So, while checking out holsters for my new S&W M&P40c, I came across the Sneaky Pete holster.

It is one of those hide in plain sight type concealment holsters. Kind of like a nicer, leather, fanny pack. It is supposed to mimic a phone case or small tablet case. To those who know what they are looking at (cops and CCWers) it screams gun, but to the average person (and probably the average bad guy) they have no idea what they are looking at. I hate fanny packs, but a nice leather belt pouch, well, I started thinking.

They have to be big enough to cover the gun, so I figured one for the M&P40c, or even for my SIG P290RS would probably be just plain too big. Even for a small .380 it may be a bit large, but the combination will probably work. I may not want a small .380 as a primary or pocket carried, but as a backup and carried outside a pocket, why not? Of course, if I decide against the Sneaky Pete, even in a standard tuckable IWB holster, these small .380s will disappear (my primary will be strong side, so maybe put the .380 weak side or AIWB).

How often will I carry a backup? Probably not much, but it will be nice to be able to. Admittedly, I'll probably use it mostly as a range toy.

Criteria:
It must have usable sights. I'd prefer a DA/SA or DAO (manual safety or not doesn't matter, I wouldn't use it) rather than a SAO with manual safety. I know many don't have a last shot hold open feature, I wish my LCP did, so it is a preferred feature but not necessary. Given what it would cost to get a laser for my existing LCP, or to replace it with a S&W Bodyguard, I don't want to spend too much. Since most of its use will be at the range, something a little more comfortable than the LCP would be nice (but not needed).

So, the guns (more or less in the order I'm considering)...

1) Keep my Ruger LCP. I don't like it much and I had put it for sale. My biggest issue with it is the nearly non-existent sights. So, by spending $80-200 (depending up the brand) I can get a laser and improve practical accuracy greatly. However, I don't love the idea of relying on a laser sight (Murphy's Law) plus it would add bulk to the gun. To be a bit more comfortable at the range, I'd add a Hogue grip sleeve.

2) S&W Bodyguard .380. They actually have decent sights despite being a pocket gun, and they have one with the laser built in without adding much bulk. With the rebate they are pretty cheap right now, and considering that I can sell the LCP for around $150 plus the added cost of the laser in order to keep the LCP, it won't cost much more money to get the Bodyguard (probably close to a wash).

3) Kahr CW380

Or I may go a little larger (probably with a tuckable IWB/AIWB only) and go with:

4) Kahr CT380

5) Bersa Thunder .380. I used to have one, it wasn't a bad gun, just a little large for a .380. However, that means it is more comfortable to shoot and gives quicker follow up shots than the pocket .380s.


I'd love to get the SIG P238 or one of the 1911 based .380s, but I prefer a DA first shot as my "manual" safety and don't really want to spend the money. Maybe in the future (just for fun). If I was to spend in the $600+ range on a gun right now, I'd rather spend a little more and get my 1st 10mm (1911 type probably) or a 3" S&W 686 Plus, though it is possible I might be convinced.


I am open to suggestions (keep in mind decent sights and some comfort at the range are probably my #1 and #2 criteria).
 
Ignore my SIG P238 or .380 1911 paragraph. I was dreaming. I'd love one, and probably will get one eventually for fun, but it doesn't make much sense right now. Some years ago, when carrying, I'd carry a S&W 1911PD (Commander sized scandium 1911). These days, I like a DA first shot or DAO and no manual safety. Back when I carried the 1911PD a small .380 1911 (or the P238 which works like a 1911 and has similar ergonomics) would have made sense. Today, it doesn't really. I will probably get one as a toy down the road, but if I was buying something just as a toy right now it would be a revolver caliber lever rifle/carbine, a 10mm 1911, a SA revolver, or a S&W 686 Plus (actually, I'd go 3" so it wouldn't be just a toy as I'd use it for carry and HD at times). So, please don't try to talk me into that one because, well, you might be successful and I have other priorities right now :D


Of course, if it really is the best option (comfortable, good sights, yet easily concealable) I could retrain on always sweeping the safety, and with my DA/DAO primary it won't matter if I sweep the non-existent safety when I draw (heck, I still sometimes do out of old habit even though I haven't trained for it in years).
 
380 makes a fine backup gun or something to carry when you need it to be small. Take care to pick your ammo well. Very few 380 loadings do what needs to be done.

I have a kahr p380 that fits the bill very well. Real sights and an excellent trigger really make this one stand out from other guns in its class, though it costs a bit more. I can honestly shoot it almost as well as most larger pistols lol. It is pleasant to shoot too (unlike the lcp imho). It is plenty accurate and it shoots very well now that it is worn in.

I have not used the CW380, but if it is similar then I think it is worth a look.

I have to note that my pistol had some reliability issues at first, but after a bit of shooting it has been 100 pct and I trust it to work if I need it.

That sig 380 is awesome too, but it is a good bit heavier and bulkier. Not necessarily in the same weight class so to speak. Had one for a while. Sweet shooting, but did not fill the "small gun" niche I asked of it. Shot like a dream, but just too big and bulky.
 
paulsj said:
Ruger LC380.
Click to expand...

The LC380 is a nice gun, and it definitely seems to have much better sights. However, it is just the .380 version of the LC9. Any time I could carry that, I could just as easily carry my SIG P290RS, so I am not sure it really fills a niche within my collection. Then again, I guess I could say the same about the CT380 and the Bersa, so maybe I should either add the LC380 to my list, or remove the CT380 and Bersa. It is true that part of this thinking is to keep a .380 in my collection, so I guess I need to add the question, how comfortable is the LC380 to shoot? How improved is it over the LCP?
 
Check out the lcp II if you can. It's the best pocket .380 I have ever shot.

I started out with a reliable but a bit difficult to shoot lcp 1st gen.

I moved to the BG380. Great sights and true second strike capability.

I soon fell in love with the Pico. Fantastic accuracy, soft shooting for the size, very pocket friendly. However, the hammer is a quite weak (known to be brittle) and the Beretta warrant is only to-do.

I tried the LCP II, and wow, what a trigger. Not the best sights, but it was very pocket friendly, very good accuracy, Ruger handshake warranty. It also holds open on the last round unlike the lcp.

Would I prefer to carry a full size 9mm or a .357? Sure, but it's not practical most days. The lcp II in my back pocket gets the nod most days.
 
Fiv3r said:
...I soon fell in love with the Pico. Fantastic accuracy, soft shooting for the size, very pocket friendly. However, the hammer is a quite weak (known to be brittle) and the Beretta warrant is only to-do.

I tried the LCP II, and wow, what a trigger. Not the best sights, but it was very pocket friendly, very good accuracy, Ruger handshake warranty. It also holds open on the last round unlike the lcp...
Click to expand...

I thought about the LCP II and decided against it since I want DAO (unless it is a 1911 style pistol). Also, my #1 criteria is a tie between relatively (for the size) comfortable to shoot and good sights.

I may need to add the Pico to my list since it sounds like it hits those, and I don't usually think about Beretta (except that I will someday own a nickel Beretta 84 or 85, but that is a large .380, different category).
 
Have you looked at the Bersa Thunder CC (compact carry?) I have the Bersa you did, and it's a great gun. The CC version is noticeably smaller.

The Bodyguard makes just a bit more sense, though, since this is for second-gun carry. Having it gives you the option of pocket-carry as well.
 
Last edited:
chaim

A friend of mine has an early production S&W Bodyguard .380 and except for a wandering zero with the laser, it's been a very reliable back-up for him. I thought the DA trigger was fairly decent and the sights were also easy to pick up and acquire. I would also take a look at the Kahr CW380, mainly because I have a CM9 and I think it has the best DAO trigger of any semi-auto I have ever used. Have heard of some initial problems with the CW380 so that might be something to consider when shopping around for your .380. Let us know what you decide upon.
 
The Pico is my choice because it has the features I want in a small pocket gun, hammer fired, small, lightweight, reliable, nice DAO trigger and good sights. Surprisingly soft shooting. Can have a light or laser integrated in the frame. Modular system allows easy, quick removal of the trigger module that makes clean up a snap. Takedown is so simple and fast... literally takes a few seconds.
 
I also carry a Pico and have really liked it. Adding the Talon grip tape has helped the feel and stability of the small frame.
 
chaim said:
(If you don't like long posts, go ahead and skip this intro and skip to "Criteria" and "...the guns...").

Quite a while ago I ruled out small .380s. I don't really trust the caliber, especially with the small 9mms out there. They are best as pocket guns, but I carry a lot in my pockets and thus I hate pocket carry (where am I going to put the stuff that goes in my right pocket when the left is already full).

So, while checking out holsters for my new S&W M&P40c, I came across the Sneaky Pete holster.

It is one of those hide in plain sight type concealment holsters. Kind of like a nicer, leather, fanny pack. It is supposed to mimic a phone case or small tablet case. To those who know what they are looking at (cops and CCWers) it screams gun, but to the average person (and probably the average bad guy) they have no idea what they are looking at. I hate fanny packs, but a nice leather belt pouch, well, I started thinking.

They have to be big enough to cover the gun, so I figured one for the M&P40c, or even for my SIG P290RS would probably be just plain too big. Even for a small .380 it may be a bit large, but the combination will probably work. I may not want a small .380 as a primary or pocket carried, but as a backup and carried outside a pocket, why not? Of course, if I decide against the Sneaky Pete, even in a standard tuckable IWB holster, these small .380s will disappear (my primary will be strong side, so maybe put the .380 weak side or AIWB).

How often will I carry a backup? Probably not much, but it will be nice to be able to. Admittedly, I'll probably use it mostly as a range toy.

Criteria:
It must have usable sights. I'd prefer a DA/SA or DAO (manual safety or not doesn't matter, I wouldn't use it) rather than a SAO with manual safety. I know many don't have a last shot hold open feature, I wish my LCP did, so it is a preferred feature but not necessary. Given what it would cost to get a laser for my existing LCP, or to replace it with a S&W Bodyguard, I don't want to spend too much. Since most of its use will be at the range, something a little more comfortable than the LCP would be nice (but not needed).

So, the guns (more or less in the order I'm considering)...

1) Keep my Ruger LCP. I don't like it much and I had put it for sale. My biggest issue with it is the nearly non-existent sights. So, by spending $80-200 (depending up the brand) I can get a laser and improve practical accuracy greatly. However, I don't love the idea of relying on a laser sight (Murphy's Law) plus it would add bulk to the gun. To be a bit more comfortable at the range, I'd add a Hogue grip sleeve.

2) S&W Bodyguard .380. They actually have decent sights despite being a pocket gun, and they have one with the laser built in without adding much bulk. With the rebate they are pretty cheap right now, and considering that I can sell the LCP for around $150 plus the added cost of the laser in order to keep the LCP, it won't cost much more money to get the Bodyguard (probably close to a wash).

3) Kahr CW380

Or I may go a little larger (probably with a tuckable IWB/AIWB only) and go with:

4) Kahr CT380

5) Bersa Thunder .380. I used to have one, it wasn't a bad gun, just a little large for a .380. However, that means it is more comfortable to shoot and gives quicker follow up shots than the pocket .380s.


I'd love to get the SIG P238 or one of the 1911 based .380s, but I prefer a DA first shot as my "manual" safety and don't really want to spend the money. Maybe in the future (just for fun). If I was to spend in the $600+ range on a gun right now, I'd rather spend a little more and get my 1st 10mm (1911 type probably) or a 3" S&W 686 Plus, though it is possible I might be convinced.


I am open to suggestions (keep in mind decent sights and some comfort at the range are probably my #1 and #2 criteria).
Click to expand...

Way back when I owned a Bersa Thunder .380. It was comfortable and shot well. the sights were, let's say - OK. The magazine had a habit of slipping as the release was inadvertently contacted while I gripped the pistol sometimes resulting in FTF's. After a recent Bersa review where the author discussed gun repair and the quality of metal used in construction of the Bersa I would hesitate to buy one.

I had a Bodyguard - nice gun. I had work done to adjust the long trigger pull somewhat. It cost me only $20 for the labor. (certified gunsmith) I didn't buy the $100 trigger kit that is available. It would be $100 plus the cost to install it. Snappy shooter, fairly accurate, but the trigger never really was up to par. I always pocket carried with the safe "on".

Used the P-238. Since it doesn't meet your criteria I won't discuss it. Good gun though.

Currently pocket carrying a Glock 42. It is the largest of the 4 and quite comfortable in my hand. Recoil is negligible. It has great sights and is the most comfortable .380 I have shot. It is the very biggest gun I would want to put in my pocket but it does work.

Good luck in your selection process.
 
Found this on the PAFOA forum:
Ruger LCP 380 Gen 1 - Talon Grips and Sticky Holster

I am selling my Ruger LCP chambered in 380 ACP. I purchased this brand new a little over a year ago and has yet to been taken to the range. Only selling because I have had it so long and still have not fired it.

Includes the original box with all the paperwork, soft carry case and OEM magazine. I added a black rubber Talon grip which I can remove if you would like. Finally, I am including a Sticky brand pocket holster in size SM-3.

For full disclosure, I can not located the pinky extension for the magazine. I will happily pass it along if it turns up.

Asking $150 firm. Located in Western PA and am flexible on FFL transfer location, buyer pays fee. Not looking for any trades but will ship for an additional $20 on your end.
 
Lots of talk, about all kinds of compact .380s. All I can say, is that I have been carrying a Sig P238 for about 5 or 6 years now and I LOVE IT! I carry it, 24/7. I carry it cocked & locked, with no fear of any kind and it goes bang every time, no matter what I feed it! For me it's a point and shoot gun and I can hit anything I shoot at, within 25', with ease.
 
Hokkmike said:
Currently pocket carrying a Glock 42. It is the largest of the 4 and quite comfortable in my hand. Recoil is negligible. It has great sights and is the most comfortable .380 I have shot. It is the very biggest gun I would want to put in my pocket but it does work.
Click to expand...


:thumbdown: huh....

most of the time!!! well 98% of the time, orrrrr. (?????????)
Why on earth would you recommend a gun that you currently have 100 rounds through and have doubting questions on reliability, etc. 30 mins prior, on this very board?????

Yet you post it works and you carry it? ***
 
tarosean said:
:thumbdown: huh....

most of the time!!! well 98% of the time, orrrrr. (?????????)
Why on earth would you recommend a gun that you currently have 100 rounds through and have doubting questions on reliability, etc. 30 mins prior, on this very board?????

Yet you post it works and you carry it? ***
Click to expand...

I like to discuss so I post. I wanted people's opinions on my experience. The vast evidence and great number of reviews that I have read or watched point to the G-42 as an excellent choice for pocket carry. I did not recommend this firearm solely on my own, as you point out, limited personal history with it. But, I am also confident going forward that my own experience will bear this out as I put more rounds through this gun and improve my handling. I do have some background of experience with handguns, .380's in particular, that allows me to offer some opinion. My other post here, that you made reference to, not withstanding, there is nothing I said in response to the OP that is not accurate.

Here is what I said, "Currently pocket carrying a Glock 42. It is the largest of the 4 and quite comfortable in my hand. Recoil is negligible. It has great sights and is the most comfortable .380 I have shot. It is the very biggest gun I would want to put in my pocket but it does work."

What part of my advice in particular do you object to? (I underlined the 4 salient points)

Hopefully your initial response to my post will give the OP a little more objectivity in his evaluation of what I have written. It is, after-all, one man's opinion.
Thank you for your contribution to the discussion tarosean. I hope i have satisfactorily answered your question.

BTW, love having lived in Texas and the picture of your dog. Keep well.
 
G42
Hokkmike said:
I like to discuss so I post. I wanted people's opinions on my experience. The vast evidence and great number of reviews that I have read or watched point to the G-42 as an excellent choice for pocket carry. I did not recommend this firearm solely on my own, as you point out, limited personal history with it. But, I am also confident going forward that my own experience will bear this out as I put more rounds through this gun and improve my handling. I do have some background of experience with handguns, .380's in particular, that allows me to offer some opinion. My other post here, that you made reference to, not withstanding, there is nothing I said in response to the OP that is not accurate.

Here is what I said, "Currently pocket carrying a Glock 42. It is the largest of the 4 and quite comfortable in my hand. Recoil is negligible. It has great sights and is the most comfortable .380 I have shot. It is the very biggest gun I would want to put in my pocket but it does work."

What part of my advice in particular do you object to? (I underlined the 4 salient points)

Hopefully your initial response to my post will give the OP a little more objectivity in his evaluation of what I have written. It is, after-all, one man's opinion.
Thank you for your contribution to the discussion tarosean. I hope i have satisfactorily answered your question.

BTW, love having lived in Texas and the picture of your dog. Keep well.
Click to expand...
I could not agree more. I have owned or shot most of all the small 380 pocket sized guns with the exception of the Pico and the G42 is the winner for me.

The G42 is my first Glock and I like it enough that I purchased a second one.
 
kokapelli said:
G42

I could not agree more. I have owned or shot most of all the small 380 pocket sized guns with the exception of the Pico and the G42 is the winner for me.

The G42 is my first Glock and I like it enough that I purchased a second one.
Click to expand...

You have me curious -what was your second Glock? (apologies for an "off topic" post)
 
I was going to suggest the Remington RM380 hammer fired DAO, second strike capable, slide lock on empty, soft shooting due to size and slide mass, easy to do malfunction drills due to the large slide, etc., etc.

The RM380 sights aren't large, but they are bigger than many pocket guns sights and the RM380 sights are squared nicely. I added some paint to the front sight of my RM380 to help my middle aged eyes.

By the way, the RM380 usually sells for below $350 and there is a $50 rebate from Remington that is current through the summer. https://www.remington.com/rebates-promotions
 
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Glock 42 with XS Big Dot sights, kydex trigger guard, and Clipdraw. Absolute best deep concealment option I've found personally. Carried in the back you forget it's there, and it's still enough gun if you ever need it.
 
I own far too many .380's. Some very high end .380's.

I picked up an RM380. Pound for pound, in its size, its one of the best .380's I've ever owned.

I "had" a Rohrbaugh 9mm. It was a beautiful piece of engineering. I never got through one magazine without a jam. It wasn't reliable with ball.

The same gun, in .380, has been 100% in over 350 rounds now.
 
I too swore off 380s. Even for backup carry. The 380s I have carried were too close in size to pocket 9mms. I have a few pictures of Taurus TCPs or Ruger LCPs sitting next to single stack 9mms I considered and they are too close in size to justify going back to a 380. For me anyway, but this is your thread.

Since you are looking for a small gun, I wouldn't recommend the Bersa Thunder. It is pretty big for a 380, and big compared to your LCP. G42 is a good choice if you like Glocks, but it isn't DAO.

I would recommend getting a Ruger LCP custom. Has a better trigger than the standard LCP. Better sights compared to the trench style of the regular model. If you still want a laser to supplement the sights, look around for a LaserLyte side mount laser. That is probably the least bulk you are going to get, unless someone starts making a guide rod model.
 
herrwalther said:
I too swore off 380s. Even for backup carry. The 380s I have carried were too close in size to pocket 9mms. I have a few pictures of Taurus TCPs or Ruger LCPs sitting next to single stack 9mms I considered and they are too close in size to justify going back to a 380...
Click to expand...
I get what you are saying. I used to think the same, they are so close why bother with the .380. For pocket carry, I suppose I'd still be thinking that way. I don't particularly like pocket carry, so I had sworn off both .380s and most small micro-9s. However, once I started thinking about pouch carry (for lack of a better term) for a backup, I started thinking about going smaller. I hate fanny packs (never used one for CCW, but back in the 1980s when they first became popular for carrying your stuff around I had one for a few days when my teenage self swore them off and I haven't liked them since). Something like the Sneaky Pete (or something similar) can start to get pretty big quite fast. So, even the slight size differences in each measurement between the .380s and the 9mms do add up. Even if I go with IWB or AIWB for this backup, I'll probably stick with the .380 since with the thinner micro-9s the recoil is far from pleasant (my P290RS is pretty comfortable, but a bit thick for backup duty if I'll have a bigger gun IWB on the other side as well, my Pf-9 is not fun at all to shoot) plus with a bigger gun IWB on my strong side going as thin as possible would be needed in the backup.

That all said, I probably should consider a fanny pack if I'm going to consider this type of carry. If I get one with a 2nd compartment, I can have the gun in the gun compartment and my diabetes stuff in the other. Or, since I'd probably only carry a backup when on vacation (I can't carry here at home since it is nearly impossible to get a MD permit so I only carry when out of state where they'll take my UT non-res permit, and for day trips I would go simpler and carry less stuff), having the 2nd compartment in a fanny pack may be nice for the stuff you may have with you that you normally may not (sunblock, camera, etc.). Add to that, with the fanny pack, I could probably carry any subcompact and maybe even some compact guns. It may make sense, but I really do hate fanny packs.

harrwalther said:
I would recommend getting a Ruger LCP custom. Has a better trigger than the standard LCP. Better sights compared to the trench style of the regular model. If you still want a laser to supplement the sights, look around for a LaserLyte side mount laser. That is probably the least bulk you are going to get, unless someone starts making a guide rod model.
Click to expand...

I have thought about the LCP Custom since it has functional sights. I may add it to the list. However, how good are the sights really? Of course, anything is an improvement over the LCP, but I do want half decent sights.
 
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