Cimarron quality control

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motorsag

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I recently took delivery of a new Cimarron revolving carbine. My initial inspection revealed some startling and down right scarey conditions. It is marked as a .357 magnum and indeed has a .357 barrel, but the cylinder is chambered in 45 Colt. The ser# on cylinder is one digit different than frame.
The stock is a very poor(and loose) fit on tang, the comb or top line of stock is so high that nobody with a jaw bone could line up sights. The hammer doesn`t cock into last notch without considerable force.The checkering on hammer spur isn`t checkering at all, it`s actually a rough criss cross of small centre punch marks.How does something like this pass proof testing and Q/A? I emailed dealer, all he is offering is a cylinder exchange. I emailed two different departments at Cimarron and have received no answer.
 
Why did you take possession of such a rifle? I'd have had the ffl box it up and send it back immeidately, rather than risk there being issues getting things resolved further down the line
 
I`m in Canada, I mail ordered it from a dealer 2000mi away. I put much of the blame on dealer, it still had a price tag on it so it had been unboxed and on the rack before he sent it to me.
 
First of all, Cimarron is not a manufacturer. It's basically a distributor of Italian reproductions, and, since it buys from the manufacturers in large quantities, it can specify its own quality standards. Cimarron has a good reputation.

It appears that this gun was in your dealer's hands for a while, so that you were essentially buying a used gun. Your primary recourse would be against the dealer. What is the dealer's return policy?
 
Yes, they market products manufactured by Pietta, Uberti, Armscor, Pedersoli and Chiappa. This thing was made by Uberti (stamped with Cimarron and Uberti) The dealer refuses to replace it or refund purchase price, has agreed only to replace cylinder. If you do a bit of research you will find lots of unhappy customers and even at least one dealer who refuses to carry their products due to defects and poor warranty.I would think they would realize this particular example is a huge potential legal liability, someone not so sharp might have been killed or seriously hurt. This is my first purchase from this company and probably my last. As for the dealer...what exactly constitutes "used" it obviously hasn`t been fired, it still had all the tags and the hammer was zip tied down. Of couse the dealer may have replaced the zip, he may even have mixed up the cylinders. Wouldn`t you think that the dealer and the marketer would realize the severity of the legal ramifications and want to deal with an issue like this expeditiously? The dealer assured me before the purchase that these were of a higher fit and finish standard than a regular Uberti. I have other Uberti`s that are of quite good quality. My impression at this point is that they have a glossy catalog, do lots of self aggrandizing, but the product and the after sale support don`t measure up.
 
Do what you must to either (A) get your money back, or, (B), get the problem fixed. I'd want a new firearm. Both Uberti and Pietta normally make fine guns. Don't know how the cylinder got switched....someone at a shipping center messing with guns? Factory error?
I can't say, but you need to get this remedied.
 
motorsag said:
I recently took delivery of a new Cimarron revolving carbine. My initial inspection revealed some startling and down right scarey conditions. It is marked as a .357 magnum and indeed has a .357 barrel, but the cylinder is chambered in 45 Colt. The ser# on cylinder is one digit different than frame.
The stock is a very poor(and loose) fit on tang, the comb or top line of stock is so high that nobody with a jaw bone could line up sights. The hammer doesn`t cock into last notch without considerable force.The checkering on hammer spur isn`t checkering at all, it`s actually a rough criss cross of small centre punch marks.How does something like this pass proof testing and Q/A? I emailed dealer, all he is offering is a cylinder exchange. I emailed two different departments at Cimarron and have received no answer.
Click to expand...

My Cimarron revolver is my favorite .45 LC pistol, and I've never had an issue with it (after 20 years). Are you sure that you the dealer sold you a truly "new" rifle - none of this sounds right at all - almost like someone tried to do some mods or built up a parts gun. I'd make the claim that the hammer not cocking into the last notch is a SAFETY issue, and the dealer should take it back, or Cimarron must remedy this under warranty.

Having a cylinder in the wrong caliber, well ... that means you got sold a non-functioning rifle, and the dealer should take it back. Period.

Either the dealer takes the carbine back at full refund, or the dealer/Cimarron exchange this for a new proper carbine.

Can you post pictures? This has my curiousity piqued.
 
I don`t do pictures myself, but am going to get help to create an extensive file of photos and a video before this leaves my hands. This dealer also supplies to theatrical productions, so who really knows what the exact history of this gun is? It is such a multi mess-up(nastier words pop into my head), it makes me wonder if it was thrown together from parts. The fact that the numbers are only one apart should be a major clue...is there a 45 out there some place with a .357 cylinder?? I just know if I was Cimarron, I would want this gun back. I haven`t been unreasonable, I`ve simply asked for what I paid for or my $ back. Being in Canada complicates the warranty process, the dealer (in my opinion) should have to deal with that process of getting back in/out of the USA.
 
Firstly, forget the email. Call them. IMHO, the dealer is unscrupulous and is not to be trusted. They should make it right but apparently they're unwilling to.

I don't know what you're finding in your research but Cimarron's reputation is very good. One of only two guns I ever had to return was a Cimarron and it was promptly replaced. I cannot imagine that this rifle came from Cimarron in that condition.
 
Looking at the proof codes today, they match on frame and cylinder "CP" I can`t find a chart up to date enough that lists the year. I`m wondering if there is a certain digit in the serial number that indicates the caliber? it`s the 3rd last digit that is different "6" on frame "5" on cylinder. I carefully inspected the forcing cone today and I`m quite sure it`s never been fired. It`s always been my impression that guns were fired with proof loads before they are stamped.If this thing left the factory like this, how did it pass Uberti`s inspection then Cimarron claims to also do a fail safe inspection.
 
OP - just call Cimarron at (830) 997-9090 or 1 (877) 749-4861. Have your receipt handy, and the dealer info.

They have a separate number for returns and service (an outside shop?) but given this is international, you might want to start at corporate for guidance.

And let us know how things develop ...
 
Never known Cimarron to be less than stellar. I had one of their highly polished blue 1911s (Armscor) and it was excellent. Back then I knew nothing of an approved method for caring for the finish. Gave them a call, actually got through and had a very enjoyable conversation. Hope your experience with them goes as mine did.
 
"My initial inspection revealed some startling and down right scarey conditions. It is marked as a .357 magnum and indeed has a .357 barrel, but the cylinder is chambered in 45 Colt."



Send it back to the dealer and ask if he can fire and function test it for you
 
pezo said:
"My initial inspection revealed some startling and down right scarey conditions. It is marked as a .357 magnum and indeed has a .357 barrel, but the cylinder is chambered in 45 Colt."



Send it back to the dealer and ask if he can fire and function test it for you
Click to expand...


I can tell you what will happen in a function test with a .357 caliber barrel and a .45 caliber cylinder.



And it ain't pretty.:uhoh::evil:
 
So far all that is being offered is an exchange of cylinders.Dealer doesn`t appear to have any previous strikes against him. Cimarron however does and a B- rating with BBB. I will post some pics in next few days.
 
Doesn't Cimarron have a five year to lifetime warranty?

From their website......
A new Cimarron firearm is warranted, butt to muzzle, only to the original retail purchaser for a period of 5 years and one day from the date of purchase

Lifetime repairs to original purchaser on the frame, cylinder, and barrel
Click to expand...

Sounds like it should be taken care of, no questions asked.
 
My good friend in Anchorage who is heavily into SASS competition swares by Cimmaron. He has 5 or 6 SA revolvers and loves them.
Hope you get that worked out, because they are a good distributor and their stuff is good quality.
 
motorsag said:
So far all that is being offered is an exchange of cylinders.Dealer doesn`t appear to have any previous strikes against him. Cimarron however does and a B- rating with BBB. I will post some pics in next few days.
Click to expand...
That's a joke. I would not darken your dealer's door. Is your dealer a gunsmith qualified to fit a cylinder to a Colt SAA replica? Are they authorized to do Cimarron's warranty work? Anybody can buy a cylinder but only a gunsmith can fit one and only Cimarron's gunsmith can do warranty work on their guns.

Have you called them yet or are you still waiting on a response to your email? Pick up the phone already. My BS meter is fluttering.
 
You might want to submit this issue back to Uberti as well since they were the manufacturer. They may give you some insight or help as to how this could have happened and perhaps be part of the solution.
 
Again, from Cimarron's website concerning firearms produced by Uberti.....

RETURN POLICY: Any firearm returned for any reason including repair must have prior approval and a Return Authorization (R.A.) number on the outside of the box.

For your R.A number, call RH Custom Guns at 830 456-8613

Or email at: [email protected]

If needed, you may also send mail to:

RH Custom Guns

730 Mustang St.. Suite 7

Fredericksburg, TX. 78624

Give a brief description of the problem. Any firearm received without a R.A. number will be returned.
Click to expand...

or.......
Contact us directly:

Cimarron Firearms Co. Inc.
105 Winding Oak Road
Fredericksburg, TX 78624

(830) 997-9090

Fax: (830) 997-0802

1877-SIXGUN1

(1877-749-4861)
Click to expand...
 
Italian replica QC unfortunately varies, and that's across the board with all importers, not just Cimarron.
Usually Cimarron's good about issues that arise, but they're vulnerable to the Italian makers' vagaries just like the rest of the importers.

Being outside the US doesn't help when issues are found.
Denis
 
Finally got a response from cimarron, emails are being copied right up to president. Being I`m outside the USA, they are leaving it mostly in the hands of the Can. dealer at this point. I get the impression they hope I just take the cylinder and go away. How does a gun get proof marks when it couldn`t possibly be fired, and how does it pass Uberti Q/A, Cimarron Q/A, be unboxed by dealer and nobody notices anything wrong?
I don`t know about the US, but in this country there is a consumer protection agency. I should have pics up in a day or two, you will be amazed. I have friends high up in the auto parts production business, they tell me practically all big companies out source production to China or similar places and that they would be surprised if the firearm manufactures were not doing the same. Regardless of who screwed up or why, a conscientious company would have done everything reasonable to get this gun back into their possession and satisfy a customer even if he is in a foreign country.
 
"The hammer doesn`t cock into last notch without considerable force"

This is also a clue as to what has happened. Take the present cylinder out of the gun and see if this issue disappears. If it does it is likely the hand is still pushing after the cylinder stop has dropped into its notch. An indication the cylinder/hand was not fitted properly to this gun. Meaning someone has simply dropped a cylinder from a different gun into this one. Simply sending you a .357 cylinder is not the solution as they have to be fitted to the gun, they are not just drop in parts.

Another question: Why would this dealer have an extra .357 cylinder laying around ?
 
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How did you pay? If it was with a credit card, dispute the charge. The card issuer will want an explanation and documentation but they are on your side more than on the dealer's. Unless he fixes things to your satisfaction, he is likely to be out the gun (which isn't worth much in its present condition) and his money.
 
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