21ft

Good Ol' Boy · Jun 24, 2017

This is a great realistic example of space and how fast the gap can close. Granted this is an LEO involved shooting, given the multiple angles shown in the video that provides much detail as to space and shots fired, I think it's worthwhile for those of us who carry.

We're all familiar with the Tueller drill but I thought this video was a great real world example of how it can actually play out.

Rexster · Jun 25, 2017

The narrator implied that the reason the officer could not back-away was because the police vehicle was blocking that action. Well, true, the police vehicle prevented a direct-line retreat, but more importantly, one cannot run backward faster than an opponent can run forward, and the act of turning around, to flee, wastes precious time, while remaining in the line of attack. The first lesson of the Tueller drill, and of this incident, is that the defender must be ready to get off the line of attack. I would have wanted to step away from the line of attack, regardless of the position of the police vehicle.

Part of this is timing; stepping off the line of attack too early allows the attacker to continue pressing the attack with a relatively minor change in direction.

The officer did well, with his timing, and his direction of evasion. The use of lighting was another factor; the narrator did discuss this part.

Another lesson, left unsaid here, is that one must be ready to continue to deal with an opponent who is not stopped by gunfire. This disturbed person did fall.

9MMare · Jun 25, 2017

A better understanding of Tueller on the part of anti-gun people and people not knowledgeable on this in general would save alot of protesting and media outrage. RIght now there is a case here in Seattle where cops shot a (I believe diagnosed) mentally ill woman who called them about an intruder and then approached them with 2 knives.

(also, cameras showed no people entering her apt for the 24 hrs previous and she had done this before, right up to presenting a knife to the responding officers).

It's a sad case but there is now outrage and demand for the cops to be charged. Investigation going on (as it would either way).

Hanzo581 · Jun 25, 2017

Still scratching my head how John doesn't have more subscribers. His videos are very helpful since they show how things happen in the real world instead of the scenarios set up at a lot of these training facilities.

Those cops already knew the guy was armed, already had their firearms drawn and the guy still got within striking distance.

redbullitt · Jun 28, 2017

People forget how effective blades can be, especially people who dont normally have experience with such things. Media barely seems to consider blades as weapons lol... but we have been very successfully slicing and dicing each other for thousands of years.

Seriously threatening with a blade should get you shot. Simple. Clubs, well I dont want a crushed skull. Seriously threatening me with a club will get you shot too. People in general seem to think the only way someone can kill someone is with a firearm, and that is just plain silly. Awww dont shoot, he only has a knife lol...

Blades in the hands of someone who knows how to use them`is an entirely different ballgame and far more dangerous, though I figure much less common.

Good video for sure, and a great reminder!

CDW4ME · Jun 28, 2017

Edged weapons and distance, 21 ft rule...

JTHunter · Jun 29, 2017

Did anybody notice the perp's legs and feet in the OP video? Even though he was approaching the cops, it looked like he was "prancing" rather than running. Look at how short his steps actually were and how, right before he collapsed, he jumped upwards, almost as if he was hopping.

Strange situation.

Hanzo581 · Jun 29, 2017

JTHunter said:
Did anybody notice the perp's legs and feet in the OP video? Even though he was approaching the cops, it looked like he was "prancing" rather than running. Look at how short his steps actually were and how, right before he collapsed, he jumped upwards, almost as if he was hopping.

Strange situation.

Yeah, he was doing a suicide by cop, my guess is somewhere in his mind a part still had apprehension about it and might have altered him from a "normal" attack run. Something you certainly don't see everyday.

strambo · Jun 29, 2017

Yup, he wasn't even going fast. A full tilt sprint and he probably could have gotten the blade in one of them. But that wasn't the point, he wanted to get shot hence the shuffle steps. Enough threat to make them shoot, slow enough they have time to get it right.

RPZ · Jun 30, 2017

Rexster said:
The narrator implied that the reason the officer could not back-away was because the police vehicle was blocking that action. Well, true, the police vehicle prevented a direct-line retreat, but more importantly, one cannot run backward faster than an opponent can run forward, and the act of turning around, to flee, wastes precious time, while remaining in the line of attack. The first lesson of the Tueller drill, and of this incident, is that the defender must be ready to get off the line of attack. I would have wanted to step away from the line of attack, regardless of the position of the police vehicle.

Part of this is timing; stepping off the line of attack too early allows the attacker to continue pressing the attack with a relatively minor change in direction.

The officer did well, with his timing, and his direction of evasion. The use of lighting was another factor; the narrator did discuss this part.

Another lesson, left unsaid here, is that one must be ready to continue to deal with an opponent who is not stopped by gunfire. This disturbed person did fall.

And this should be kept in mind in "must retreat if possible" states. Sometimes retreating, as in "turn and run" is not going to protect you, or the speed necessary to do so is not possible because of obstacles, age, physical condition etc

And it is worth noting in this case shown, the badguy was not that fast. A really fit healthy young person could sprint that distance in less time.

RPZ · Jun 30, 2017

Fred Mastro demonstrates the difficulty in blocking at minimum difference. And hence the peril anyone is in when they are in such close proximity to an unknown subject. And keep in mind these guys knew what was coming.

Rexster · Jul 1, 2017

The videos demonstrate, very clearly, that one cannot react quickly enough, at contact distance, to an action that occurs in less time than human reaction time, even when the attack angle is anticipated. This is the same dynamic that is at work in "drawing against the drop" scenarios, when an armed person, who has "the drop" on an opponent, becomes the victim of a swift counter-attack.

RPZ · Jul 1, 2017

These two demonstrate a complete lack of awareness, and a form of mental paralysis. Despite clear warning signs, close contact distance proximity, one victim took no action until the actual attacks began. Too late.

Beware of blondes with axes..

Edited for content.

Deaf Smith · Jul 1, 2017

The 21 ft rule is a 'guesstimate'. The reaction time, running speed, skill set of both the attacker and the defender can vary quite a lot.

Examples:

1) a young fit man charging an older very non-athletic man who has never even practiced drawing a weapon.

2) a non-athletic man who cannot run fast charges a very fit and skilled person who practices daily.

So the 21 foot rule is not even a rule. As Captain Jack would say, "more like a guideline."

Deaf

Deaf Smith · Jul 1, 2017

RPZ said:
Fred Mastro demonstrates the difficulty in blocking at minimum difference. And hence the peril anyone is in when they are in such close proximity to an unknown subject. And keep in mind these guys knew what was coming.

I've done similar things in martial arts classes. Not knife but straight lead punches. If you practice hard with a mirror you can submerge most of your 'tells' and that makes it very difficult for anyone to stop an attack at touching range. You can also take weapons from others. Use simple disarms you have practiced over months if not years while making your tells very hard to detect.

Deaf

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