Sorry for more rookie scope questions

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You probably know better than I do, but I stick to my original assertion that it is not possible to bring a decent scope of any kind to market for $100, or anywhere close. And that's doubly true for your $300 1-6s and $600 25x variables that I see everywhere these days. I've simply learned to distrust anyone who makes a habit of offering deals too good to be true, and it's served me very well.


Again my experience is that 150-200 dollar scopes from the majors, in the "normal" range 3-9x what ever, tend to be "good". By that i mean you get them adjusted and they stay that way, have decent glass. Nothing spectacular, no dailing drop or windage, and no lowers over 12 (preferably 9).

These are the most purchased scopes on the market, so sheer volume helps off set production cost.
 
Well, I'm glad I made such and entertaining and engaging thread. I'm learning lots, but I think I just need to get out and look at more scopes. I haven't seen many, but I think this won't be my only one. In the back of my head I still see myself liking a lower magnification scope that is quicker. Not quite tactical red dot quick, but quick. I'm not going for a quarter sized group at 100 yards. More like always hitting a rodent sized target at 50-75. Not gonna push the .22 envelop. That will be my next project where I build a true AR. I wish there was a scope place where I could just look at them all. Seems hard to find a place with much of a selection.

Truly appreciate all the input on the thread and the civil disagreements. It would be boring if we were all the same.
 
Oh yeah, I will say this about Leupold. Everything I read says they'll take a scope back no matter what happens. I really do like that aspect. The idea of a scope that is "forever" is appealing to me in an odd way.

Also, I'm getting hung up on if I was a "rimfire" scope or just getting a centerfire scope. *sigh* I'll never know until I just buy one. It is getting to sh*t or get off the pot for me!
 
My daughter's fiancé has a ZV 3 3-9x40. I know three people that own them. To me they are on par with a VX-3, maybe not to someone else.

mfer, I prefer a rimfire scope or a scope with side focus/AO on a .22lr because of parallax. It matters to some and not to others. Only you can decide.
 
I prefer a rimfire scope or a scope with side focus/AO on a .22lr because of parallax. It matters to some and not to others. Only you can decide.

Yeah, not sure how to "decide" when I've never owned or shot even. So parallax will likely be an issue if I get a fixed 150yd one? What I don't understand then is why all these AR scopes for 223/556 are all fixed parallax at 150 but intended for close quarters? I guess it might not matter for human sized targets at 25 yds.
 
Oh yeah, I will say this about Leupold. Everything I read says they'll take a scope back no matter what happens.

What a lot of folks who have never needed to send any scope back will not realize - the above statement can be made about a LOT of brands. I've owned a lot of different optics over the years, and have picked up a lot of "as is" scopes at bargain bin prices when the owner didn't realize a simple warranty call would get the product back up and running.

As a list of warranty services I have personally used, with very easy processes and satisfactory customer care, at least a list of what I can recall at midnight: Simmons, Bushnell, Vortex, Nikon, Weaver, Nightforce, Swarovski, Burris... The lifetime warranty game is pretty common. Bushnell, as one in particular, is faster than any of the others I have used, I sent my scope 2nd day on a Tuesday, received a processing notification Friday morning, received a shipping notice Tuesday, and received the replacement scope Thursday. They had emailed me a RMA, so I wasn't even out postage. Alternatively, I've had to pay shipping charges for Leupold repairs, and the times I've used them, it's taken a few weeks for processing on their end. Only Vortex has been nearly as fast as Bushnell. I've also noted that Leupold isn't as generous on "so, you dropped it down an embankment and want it repaired/replaced on our dime?" as some other companies. They took care of me, but they let me know they were going off of the books to do so - Vortex and Bushnell didn't even ask. Leupold doesn't ask questions when you send them a scope with adjustment issues - but they don't really fix it either, as tracking truth isn't their strong suit.

Guys can bang that "life time warranty" drum about Leupold, but give a read of their policy compared to other scopes on the market - it's really nothing unique to Leupold, and they really aren't even as good as many other brands.
 
Yeah, not sure how to "decide" when I've never owned or shot even. So parallax will likely be an issue if I get a fixed 150yd one? What I don't understand then is why all these AR scopes for 223/556 are all fixed parallax at 150 but intended for close quarters? I guess it might not matter for human sized targets at 25 yds.

From what I understand, parallax is really only important if you have high magnification (like 20x), you will be shooting at long range, or you want really precise shots at extreme close range. I've never seen a definition of what they're calling extreme close range, so I don't know if they're talking about 25 yards, 50 yards, or what. I can't imagine using a scope for anything inside 25 yards, so maybe they're talking about 25-50, or so I would guess. But hunters commonly make shots from 25-300 yards, and I've never had anyone tell me parallax was an issue. Matter of fact, I doubt most of the die hard hunters I know even have a clue what parallax is.
 
Yeah, not sure how to "decide" when I've never owned or shot even. So parallax will likely be an issue if I get a fixed 150yd one? What I don't understand then is why all these AR scopes for 223/556 are all fixed parallax at 150 but intended for close quarters? I guess it might not matter for human sized targets at 25 yds.

Because the AR-15 platform, or rather M16, was intended to have an effective range of 0-600m, and the M4 has an intended effective range of 0-500m... Parallax issues for a low magnification scope are less "magnified" as they are for higher mag scopes, so they can get away with a more generous setting. AR optics are really meant for fast acquisition of larger targets, not really only meant for closer ranges - note, almost all of them with drop compensating reticles are marked out to 400 or 500yrds.

Shooting a longer parallax setting at a shorter distance will have a worse effect for most models than shooting a shorter parallax setting at long ranges. In other words, a rimfire scope with a 50yrd parallax will have less error shooting at 100yrds than a 100yrd parallax scope would have shooting at 50yrds. I tend to avoid fixed parallax scopes in general, then I also avoid rimfire specific scopes as well, since I'd rather deal with parallax management than be stuck with a scope which is only suitable for a small fraction of my rifles.

A 150yrd parallax setting from 20-300yrds will yield less than 1/2" of POI shift - not enough for you to worry about with your little S&W M&P15-22.
 
Looks like the Minox ZV-3 3-9x has a parallax set to 100 yards for what it's worth. I would be sorely tempted to try it, and I can't believe I'm even hearing myself saying that right now.

Every once in a while something comes along that breaks the mold, and I daresay the Minox might just be one of those unicorns. I know that a lot of companies will sell select products for near cost just to get people to pay attention to them, and maybe this is one of those cases.
 
Its a forum for enthusiasts. I guess I knew in the back of my head what I was getting into. I do like quality stuff and have learned a lot here so I am thankful. It seemed more overwhelming in the beginning, but I'm starting to get it. I want a quality one without getting into the diminishing returns area.

Are you any less overwhelmed now than when you started? :neener:

I said it before, the Nikon scope you are contemplating will be fine. There are many degrees of "fine". Would I put that same scope on a .308 hunting rifle? Of course not. Would I put a Schmidt & Bender scope on that M&P 15-22? Of course not. Would a Bushnell Drop Zone-22 be about good as the Nikon, for about the same price? Probably.

That, in a nutshell, is the reason there are so many mind-boggling choices when it comes to scopes. Whatever you buy, it won't be the last. Same goes for the M&P 15-22, an inexpensive but perfectly fine rifle all to itself. It will only be the first of many tools you are likely to use as a starting point for whatever else you desire in the future.
 
My Marlin Model 60 has a $120.00 2-7 rimfire scope with parallax set at 50 yards. That may not suffice for some but works great for me on a .22lr I'm not going to shoot past 75 yards. My CZ 512 .22 WMR is sometimes used on shots past 100 yards. For that I have a much nicer 3-9 AO scope because on very close shots it helps my eyes to dial the parallax down. I'm also shooting at smaller animals with my .22 mag than I do with my centerfire rifles and as such am aiming at a smaller kill zone. Even if it doesn't help it certainly doesn't hurt.
 
Bushnell, as one in particular, is faster than any of the others I have used, I sent my scope 2nd day on a Tuesday, received a processing notification Friday morning, received a shipping notice Tuesday, and received the replacement scope Thursday. They had emailed me a RMA, so I wasn't even out postage.
Good to hear this but reading up on their guaranteed warranty it is only good on a few lines. Trophy, Legend & Elite. Unless I could find one in there...
 
So, answering my own question:
Bushnell Legend Ultra HD 3-9x40mm
Parallax adjustment down to 10yd
Seems to be mostly used for air and .22 guns but isn't a rimfire scope and can be used on larger caliber guns.

Reviews seem ok but not great. It is one of those <$200 scopes. It does have the no questions asked warranty. Heavy compared to others. Shorter eye relief 3.5". Not issue on .22, maybe bigger guns.
 
If you like Nikon get one. If you look through a Legend and like it better then get Bushnell instead.
 
I have a legend ultra 4.5-14 on my .250AI and a 1.75-5x32 on my .458 socom. I like them both, and would buy another. I also have a Trophy muzzy scope that was bad on arrival, it went back and like varminterror said bout 2 weeks later i had a replacement, which seems to be working fine.
 
Possible conclusion!

Went to cabelas with more information I have learned here.

1. Looked at Nikon pro staff, Lepold vx1/2/3, bushnell trophy (no legends) and Burris ff II. All in the 3-9 range and a couple 2-7
2. I see the versatility of the 3-9. I also see the difference in 32mm vs 40mm
3. I now see the subjectiveness of scopes. All were clear and nice to my eyes. Some were slightly better to me. I do see how the vx3 is an upgrade but to much for my casual shooting.
4. The Leupold for me had the easiest eye box. The Burris was nice but I felt I had a very short range that my eye had to be at. I then realized this will be important to me as I want to teach my son on this. Nikon was good but the "quick" eye box was a factor for me. I set all scopes to 4x by the way.

They had a sale on the vx-1 with fine reticule (not bdc). Even with tax it was same price as optics/midway. $180 out the door. If I went with bdc it would have been $250+ tax. Store is close so I can return if I change my mind. Still in box with plastic wrapped. The vx-2 was only there in 2-7. So I may search out diffs in vx2. To be clear, I'd likely be happy with any of them.
 
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Possible conclusion!

Went to cabelas with more information I have learned here.

1. Looked at Nikon pro staff, Leopoldo vx1/2/3, bushnell trophy (no legends) and Burris ff II. All in the 3-9 range and a couple 2-7
2. I see the versatility of the 3-9. I also see the difference in 32mm vs 40mm
3. I now see the subjectiveness of scopes. All were clear and nice to my eyes. Some were slightly better to me. I do see how the vx3 is an upgrade but to much for my casual shooting.
4. The Leupold for me had the easiest eye box. The Burris was nice but I felt I had a very short range that my eye had to be at. I then realized this will be important to me as I want to teach my son on this. Nikon was good but the "quick" eye box was a factor for me. I set all scopes to 4x by the way.

They had a sale on the vx-1 with fine reticule (not bdc). Even with tax it was same price as optics/midway. $180 out the door. If I went with bed it would have been $250+ tax. Store is close so I can return if I change my mind. Still in box with plastic wrapped. The vx-2 was only there in 2-7. So I may search out diffs in vx2. To be clear, I'd likely be happy with any of them.

Leupoldo sounds like the dimwitted son of a German immigrant and his Spanish senorita.:neener:

That's really cool that you found one local for the same price as midway. It's always better to see scopes in person. You can see 10k reviews with scope cams and whatnot, but there's no substitute for just looking through the thing with your own eyes.:thumbup:
 
Looks like Vx-2 differences are coatings (2% more light), customizable turrets, faster focus turn eye piece and some more MOA clicks (4 more). Think I'll just keep the vx-1 unless I'm missing something.

Info.
Leupold VX-1 lenses coated with implementing of Multicoat 4 technology that allows 92% light transmission. Elevation and windage are finger click adjustable with ¼ MOA increments. Adjustment range is 52 MOA. Main tube is made from 2 pieces. VX-1 rifle scope has classic focus eyepiece and tactile power indicator. Currently there are 2-7×33, 3-9×40, 3-9×50 and 4-12×40 models available. Price range is $209.99 – $299.99.

Leupold VX-2 lenses coated with index matched Diamond Coat and have blackened edges. All these allow 94% light transmission. Main tube is made from 2 pieces and has 1 inch diameter. Adjustments accomplish by finger tips with ¼ MOA clicks through 56 MOA range. VX-2 rifle scopes equipped with externally threaded fast focus eye piece and tactile power selector. These models feature 2nd generation Argon/Krypton filling that protects your scope against fogging with rapid temperature change.
Taken from here:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/rifles...x-1-vx-2-and-vx-3-what-is-the-difference/amp/
 
There is a pretty large jump in glass quality from VX-1 to VX-2. From VX-2 to VX-3i the jump in glass quality is quite a bit smaller.

Scopes fascinate me and I spend a lot of time studying and testing them. It helped that I sold them for two years at the Cabela's store that is number one company wide in firearm sales. Since we moved a lot of guns we moved a bunch of scopes.

Percentage of light transmission is not as important as how the glass disperses the light. You can have two scopes, one with 94% light transmission and one with 97%. The 97% scope could be brighter but the 94% could have more clarity and better distinction between light and shadow, resulting in a scope with a much better picture. I don't look at or care what percentage of light transmission a scope has, YMMV.
 
Percentage of light transmission is not as important as how the glass disperses the light. You can have two scopes, one with 94% light transmission and one with 97%. The 97% scope could be brighter but the 94% could have more clarity and better distinction between light and shadow, resulting in a scope with a much better picture. I don't look at or care what percentage of light transmission a scope has, YMMV.

Dagnabit. I was all set on opening my vx-1 box tonight!

The VX-2 they had at Cabela's was the 2-7x33mm. The amount of light/brightness was notable dimmer than even the VX-1 (40mm). I didn't think the VX-2 was better per say as I was comparing to the VX-1 40mm. It was fine, just more muted. You telling me the VX-2 will really be that much clearer than the VX-1? The VX-3 40mm was superb from what I recall, but it was also almost 3x the price. Is that what the 3 stands for? j/k
 
The VX-2 2-7 shouldn't necessarily be brighter but give a sharper, more distinct image than the VX-1. Did you have the diopter adjusted to your eyes on both scopes? In the end though it all boils down to:
Everyone's eyes are different, trust what yours are telling you. Buy the VX-1.
 
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Did you have the diopter adjusted to your eyes on both scopes?

Now I know what it feels like when I ask my parents if they "googled their computer problem before calling me." I have no idea what diopter adjustment would be. Let me go "google that".
 
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