My wife and I just completed a trip through the Scandinavian countries (Denmark, Sweden, Netherlands, Norway). On the trip I also met people from Australia and New Zealand. As much as I could, I explored their gun laws; a scary exploration. If you owned a gun in, say, Norway. You would have to undergo a thorough investigation of every reason you have for owning a gun. Usually the only acceptable reason is that you are a hunter. Self protection is not accepted as an appropriate reason. Once you get permission, there are strict rules for storing the gun and ammunition. Both must be stored in separate locked containers. The authorities can come to your house any time without advance notice and inspect the storage arrangement. If you are in violation you will most likely lose your firearm and ammo and face stiff fines. The people I talked to are generally very wary of getting on the wrong side of the government. Handguns cannot be owned in the way we think. If you want to buy a handgun you must go through rigorous evaluation. Once permitted, you can only "own" the gun if you belong to a government sanctioned gun club. The gun must be kept at the club and shot only at that location. It can never be taken home. I could list a bunch of other rules, but you get the gist. Oddly, most of the population thinks this is just fine and that the government should be in charge. The omnipresent government is in charge of nearly every aspect of their lives. Scares me to think we have many people in this country who think we should adopt their ways.
Gun Laws in Scandinavia
- Thread starter Sniper66
- Start date
- Status
Shanghai McCoy
Member
I met a one of my cousins in Denmark back in 1969. He had fought in the Resistance against the Germans in WW2. On his wall in the farmhouse, next to some deer antlers, was a Mauser rifle. He'd gotten the rifle the same way that he'd gotten the antlers.
Guess a few generations later things have changed ...
Guess a few generations later things have changed ...
AlexanderA
Member
We need to make a distinction between the gun laws that are on the books, and what actually happens in practice. I suspect that the culture in Scandinavia is different from the culture in southern Europe, in that the northern Europeans trust their governments more. Therefore, the gap between the gun laws and the practice in northern Europe is small. In southern Europe, that gap is huge. I'm particularly familiar with the situation in Greece. The gun laws are draconian, but people in certain parts of the country pay no attention to them. Even the police themselves estimate that there are 250,000 Kalashnikovs illegally circulating in the country. In Crete, it's traditional for every household to have a cache of weapons. In Crete last week, an 85-year-old deaf villager shot and killed his own son, whom he mistook for a burglar. Then he barricaded himself in his house and held off the police for hours (firing over 100 shots at them). When they finally captured him, it turned out he had several illegal weapons, including handguns, rifles, etc. This wasn't at all surprising to anyone. Even the Deputy Minister of Health (who is from Crete) has bragged that he has an illegal handgun, and that he fires it randomly into the air to celebrate holidays and other special occasions (there are published pictures showing him doing exactly that). It helps that he is a personal friend of the Prime Minister.
You can go to the Gypsy neighborhood of Menidi (a suburb of Athens) and buy an AK-47 for the going price of about $400 US, no questions asked. As well as any kind of drugs that you might want. That ghetto is off-limits to the police. They dare not go there.
When it comes to guns, hypocrisy is the rule in most of Europe. Americans are quite law-abiding by comparison.
You can go to the Gypsy neighborhood of Menidi (a suburb of Athens) and buy an AK-47 for the going price of about $400 US, no questions asked. As well as any kind of drugs that you might want. That ghetto is off-limits to the police. They dare not go there.
When it comes to guns, hypocrisy is the rule in most of Europe. Americans are quite law-abiding by comparison.
Speedo66
Member
Scandinavian countries in general have a history of hunting and gun possession. Hunting and possession is regulated but possible.
There are many, perhaps most, other countries with far more restrictive gun laws. As mentioned, Holland is not a Scandinavian country, Finland is generally considered one.
Here's Wiki's take on gun laws by nation:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overview_of_gun_laws_by_nation
There are many, perhaps most, other countries with far more restrictive gun laws. As mentioned, Holland is not a Scandinavian country, Finland is generally considered one.
Here's Wiki's take on gun laws by nation:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overview_of_gun_laws_by_nation
Hokkmike
Member
When I was there (Norway) ads for O/U shotguns filled the center of their newspaper via insert. My host said hunting was prevalent and occurred mostly in the lower mountains. 95% of Norwegians live along the coastline. When he and his family visited us in Pennsylvania he was troubled by the fact that I possessed handguns, one which I kept loaded. His constant question was, "Why do you need it?" I took him a gun store and he was fascinated to see the array of available items. He wanted to buy a black powder pistol in the worst way but figured the airlines (I had no idea) and his government would give him grief though he wasn't sure how.
People in those European countries do not have the faintest understanding or knowledge of why our colonies revolted against "the Mother country," England. Europeans, having been "the King's subjects" for two thousand years, the ideas of the American colonists insisting on Unalienable Individual Rights, Individual Freedom, and Individual Liberty are as foreign and mystifying to Europeans as a wristwatch to a pig.
After all, "the King" doles out "privileges" and his subjects or worker peasants, have no "Unalienable Rights" to anything. The King's word is Law. If the King did not or does not issue a Privilege, it does not exist. Yes, I know there are few "Kings" there today, but the mind set still exists. What ever their rulers dictate, it is not to be questioned.
Two thousand years of brainwashing and unquestioning obedience to their kings have carved the people's mind set into marble. Obey or else!
People who study American colonialist history pre-Revolution and U.S. post-Revolution, understand it took place for many reasons. Not just because England imposed the Sugar Tax, Stamp Tax, and Writs of Assistance (unwarranted search and seizure by the King's soldiers for any reason or nonreason whatsoever), etc. No, it was about Unalienable Individual Rights, Individual Freedom, and Individual Liberty.
The United States of America is the most unique nation the world has EVER known. Our Rights, Freedom, and Liberty, etc., are incomprehensible to most Europeans. That is the difference between European subjects and United States citizens.
L.W.
After all, "the King" doles out "privileges" and his subjects or worker peasants, have no "Unalienable Rights" to anything. The King's word is Law. If the King did not or does not issue a Privilege, it does not exist. Yes, I know there are few "Kings" there today, but the mind set still exists. What ever their rulers dictate, it is not to be questioned.
Two thousand years of brainwashing and unquestioning obedience to their kings have carved the people's mind set into marble. Obey or else!
People who study American colonialist history pre-Revolution and U.S. post-Revolution, understand it took place for many reasons. Not just because England imposed the Sugar Tax, Stamp Tax, and Writs of Assistance (unwarranted search and seizure by the King's soldiers for any reason or nonreason whatsoever), etc. No, it was about Unalienable Individual Rights, Individual Freedom, and Individual Liberty.
The United States of America is the most unique nation the world has EVER known. Our Rights, Freedom, and Liberty, etc., are incomprehensible to most Europeans. That is the difference between European subjects and United States citizens.
L.W.
We revolved not against English, but against The United Kingdom of Britain.
I point this out only because the fact the Europeans don't know the history of the American Revolution is not all that surprising; but the fact our own citizens don't know very much about it is part of the root of our current problems as a nation.
JohnBiltz
Member
Well if you looked at what those taxes were that got everyone all riled up you be shocked compared to what we pay in taxes now. We've lost our way as well over the years. But the truth is we did not fight the revolution over taxes. We happily subverted, conspired, smuggled and cheated our way around them for decades. They angered people and stirred people up but that was about it. The revolution started when the British Army marched to close a colony's legislature. That was a game changer. That scared people. It confronted the colonists with a harsh change. We had become accustomed to a lot of self determination. We did not fight a revolution to change things. We fought a revolution to keep things the same. Which is why our revolution is about the only revolution that did not go under in a second revolution. For some reason this is lost on most historians.
tipoc
Member
- Joined
- Mar 9, 2006
- Messages
- 3,563
"After all, "the King" doles out "privileges" and his subjects or worker peasants, have no "Unalienable Rights" to anything. The King's word is Law. If the King did not or does not issue a Privilege, it does not exist. Yes, I know there are few "Kings" there today, but the mind set still exists. What ever their rulers dictate, it is not to be questioned.
Two thousand years of brainwashing and unquestioning obedience to their kings have carved the people's mind set into marble. Obey or else!"
Well the Kings and the royalty did not go away on their own.
It's useful to learn something about the history of that part of the globe. It's a history of wars, revolutions and counter revolutions, many of them in the last 200 years. If we paint all of Europe as a place of chumps and patsy's we making a mistake.
I notice that often folks ruminating on the nobility leave something out. That Kings ruled by the grace of God. They and the Protestant and Catholic churches told you that every day, several times on Sun. They had troops to back that up. That's why in the Declaration of Independence it stated, front and center, that a legitimate government rules only by the consent of the people. An idea that French and British revolutionaries had thunk up, by the way.
Two thousand years of brainwashing and unquestioning obedience to their kings have carved the people's mind set into marble. Obey or else!"
Well the Kings and the royalty did not go away on their own.
It's useful to learn something about the history of that part of the globe. It's a history of wars, revolutions and counter revolutions, many of them in the last 200 years. If we paint all of Europe as a place of chumps and patsy's we making a mistake.
I notice that often folks ruminating on the nobility leave something out. That Kings ruled by the grace of God. They and the Protestant and Catholic churches told you that every day, several times on Sun. They had troops to back that up. That's why in the Declaration of Independence it stated, front and center, that a legitimate government rules only by the consent of the people. An idea that French and British revolutionaries had thunk up, by the way.
And this is why the culture war is so imperative in this country. We are having an almost uncontrolled influx of people from countries that have no grasp of these things whatsoever. They are for the most part decent people, yes they want to work hard, have a "better life" etc. But they do not share our culture either historically or in the present. They will out breed us, then outvote us down the road.
RPRNY
Member
I don't know where to begin. There is just so much wrong going on here...
As a former resident of Sweden, and frequent traveller to Scandinavia, Finland, and Holland for that matter, this thread reads like a Will Farrell satire on redneck gun owners...
Suffice it to say that in all of Europe, Norway has the strongest tradition of gun ownership and is, of course, not governed by EU gun laws. Sweden, where I lived and have hunted, also has a strong gun and hunting tradition, as does Finland, a Nordic but not Scandinavian country. Denmark does not and, as noted above, the Netherlands is neither Scandinavian nor Nordic and has no gun tradition per se. While we are on geography, the entity that we won our independence from was the United Kingdom of Great Britain and (then) Ireland.
These countries do have far more restrictive gun laws than we do, and all of them, with the exception of Finland, are monarchies with no history of enshrining the rights of individuals in a written Constitution like our own. But to ignore the very different culture and laws of Norway, for example, with regards to gun ownership compared to EU states like the Netherlands is simply absurd.
As a former resident of Sweden, and frequent traveller to Scandinavia, Finland, and Holland for that matter, this thread reads like a Will Farrell satire on redneck gun owners...
Suffice it to say that in all of Europe, Norway has the strongest tradition of gun ownership and is, of course, not governed by EU gun laws. Sweden, where I lived and have hunted, also has a strong gun and hunting tradition, as does Finland, a Nordic but not Scandinavian country. Denmark does not and, as noted above, the Netherlands is neither Scandinavian nor Nordic and has no gun tradition per se. While we are on geography, the entity that we won our independence from was the United Kingdom of Great Britain and (then) Ireland.
These countries do have far more restrictive gun laws than we do, and all of them, with the exception of Finland, are monarchies with no history of enshrining the rights of individuals in a written Constitution like our own. But to ignore the very different culture and laws of Norway, for example, with regards to gun ownership compared to EU states like the Netherlands is simply absurd.
Last edited:
RoscoeBryant
Member
What I do not get about comments like those is the extreme simplification of very complex issues, which inevitably leads to wrong statements. While generally speaking, in most US-states most of the gun-related laws are considerably more liberal than in most european countries, it definetly is not the case everywhere and it most definetly is not the case in a LOT of other legal matters apart from gun laws. If only we stay at the topic of gun (and weapons in general) related laws: Are you free to buy guns without any permit? Are you free to buy an SBR or a supressor? Are you free to buy any knife you wish to own? Are you free to carry your gun wherever you like?
The answers to these questions will vary widely between states and on some topics even counties. You may be free to buy anything you like with no restrictions, you may be free to buy long guns regardless and handguns with a CCP or other license, or you may have to complete courses and acquire a permit for any gun. You may be completely forbidden to own an SBR, or you may buy one after you pay special taxes and file some paperwork with the government (and wait a few weeks to months...). You may be free to buy and carry any knife you like, ore you may be forbidden to carry or even own certain types of knives. You may live in a state with consitutional carry, you may have to get a CCP in a shall issue state, you may have to take courses and even then it is not certain you will get a CCP, it may be virtually impossible to obtain a CCP, there may be local restrictions etc. etc. For all those questions, there are european countries who are far more liberal than parts, most or all of the US.
While the ideas of individual freedom and liberty certainly are incorporated in the general spirit in the US and therefore show themselves in the legal framework to some extent more than in most of Europe, it is not just an oversimplification but just wrong to consider the "US-citizen" as free and the "European-subject" as enslaved peasant ignorant to liberty and freedom. Be proud of the outstanding qualities of most of the US in terms of gun rights and make sure you keep those rights (and fight the new idiotic laws politicians will come up with every day...), but don't get ignorant about it. We all are not "free" when it comes to gun rights, there are just different degrees of "strictness" we have to deal with. There are a lot of Europeans fighting the same battle, and there are a lot of topics you could turn the argument the other way round (p.ex. are Germans "free" for their no speed-limit-highways, and all other countries peasants who bow to their rulers for having them?). As RPRNY said - even more than the US, Europa is formed by a lot of different states/countries with different culture, different attitudes towards certain topics and therefore different laws.
Speedo66
Member
Depending on whose definition you believe, and I looked at many, Finland, Iceland, and the Danish Faroe Islands may also be considered Scandinavian.
If your definition only includes countries whose language evolved from Old Norse, then, of course, Finland is out.
Interestingly, the motto of the Faroe Islands is the same as that of New Hampshire, "Live free or die".
Deaf Smith
Member
Yes and if the government dislikes any particular minority, they just 'deem' them unfit to own guns. That is the way it works folks. Always has.
FREE MEN OWN GUNS, SLAVES DON'T.
And having to have a 'permit' to own a gun is not owning the gun! It is still theirs and they can get it back anytime they want to 'cancel' you.
Deaf
In regards to firearms the only country that is even close to us is Switzerland, with the Czech Republic - perhaps Austria - and now a couple of others starting to "wake up".
RPRNY
Member
Scandinavia refers to both a geographic entity- the peninsula occupied by Norway and Sweden, and a political/cultural entity - Norway, Sweden and Denmark, the three of which were politically united (ie Denmark and Sweden have both ruled Norway at some point) at one time or another. "Nordic" refers to a broader geographic and cultural group that includes Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Finland, and Iceland. The Faroe Islands were Norwegian until WWII and since then have been an autonomous region of the Kingdom of Denmark, like Greenland (also represented on the Nordic Council).
The Finns of Finland share no linguistic or ethnic history with Scandinavia (although parts of Finland were ruled by Sweden). Linguistically, they are related to Estonians (observers to the Nordic Council) and Hungarians. Culturally, they are, happily for the rest of us, quite unique.
RPRNY
Member
I am also a former resident of Switzerland and can speak to the laws and culture (at least in Suisse Romande). Also not governed by EU gun laws, Switzerland's gun culture is related to its reliance on a citizen militia. In this, they are much closer to Norway and Sweden than the US. Czechia is governed by and, happily, rebelling against EU gun laws. With both a strong hunting culture and experiences more closely related to those of the US in the form of the absorption of the Sudetenland and ultimately invasion by Germany and the experience of rebellion against the Soviets in 1968, they share some of the historic cultural drivers of an RKBA recognition. To a lesser extent, Slovakia, Hungary and Poland are similarly inclined. Austria is quite different. While there is a strong hunting culture there, there is a very strong pacifist/neutrality movement as well. The recent influx of large numbers of migrants and attenuate increase in violent crime is however encouraging Austrians to "wake up" as you note ;-)
Speedo66
Member
Except that Swedish was the official language in Finland since the 1600's and the country is still officially considered bi-lingual with Swedish still an official language in all aspects.
Certain parts of Finland speak Swedish exclusively. All of Finland was ruled by Sweden for hundreds of years.
Last edited:
RPRNY
Member
Since we're nitpicking, no.
All of Finland was not ruled by Sweden and native Swedish speakers in Finland are ethnic Swedes from the occupation period. As I correctly stated, the Finns of Finland share no linguistic or ethnic history with Scandinavia.
All of Finland was not ruled by Sweden and native Swedish speakers in Finland are ethnic Swedes from the occupation period. As I correctly stated, the Finns of Finland share no linguistic or ethnic history with Scandinavia.
RPRNY
Member
Sorry, double post
RoscoeBryant
Member
Switzerland is not close to the US if you are talking about laws. The countries closest to most of the US States are Czech republic and Estonia, as they have shall issue CC (in the rest of Europe it is may issue, and usually pretty hard to get). Switzerland has a pretty strong gun culture, but it is rooted in a government run militia and the defense of the country and not in personal defense. The laws in switzerland - which are governed by the EU (Switzerland has to adopt most of the EU-legislation due to Schengen and various other agreements) - are relatively strict talking by US-standards, they require permits for acquisition, they heva rules on how to store firearms, and they do not give out carry permits in general.
However it is clear, that the gun laws in the US usually are a lot more liberal than in Europe, no one is arguing about that. The point is, the laws are not remotely "free" and require citizens to ask permission of the government for a multitude of items they want to own and in most of the states if they want to carry a gun. These permission can also be revoked for the silliest reasons (talk about marihuana in compliance with state laws....).
Last edited:
Speedo66
Member
Nitpicking? Finland was a part of Sweden and ruled by them from 1150 to 1809 when Finland finally gained back their independence. While you may have spent time in Sweden, I guess you did not study their history. I'd suggest you look at the history of the Finnish occupation by Sweden.
You can look here: http://motherearthtravel.com/history/finland/history-3.htm
Here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Finland
Here: http://www.historyworld.net/wrldhis/PlainTextHistories.asp?historyid=ad02
Or here: http://localhistories.org/finland.html
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked