The .264 Win Mag - An Old Idea Worth Re-Visiting

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Llama Bob

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As most probably know, the .264 win mag was introduced in 1959 and has never been a very successful cartridge, although it's never been in serious danger of dying either. But it's always lingered in the shadow of the 7mm magnum - the same case necked up from 6.5mm to 7mm. This had mainly to do with three things:
  • A shortage of 6.5mm bullets in the 1960s
  • A lack of reloading powders slow enough to take advantage of the small bore and large case
  • Concern about barrel life
The situation now is much much different. There has been a proliferation of premium 6.5mm hunting bullets, and appropriate rate high energy density powders are now readily available. The full power ballistics at SAAMI max MAP now look like:
  • 85gr 3800+ ft/s
  • 100gr 3600 ft/s
  • 120gr 3340 ft/s
  • 130gr 3230 ft/s
  • 140gr 3120 ft/s
  • 160gr 2960 ft/s
That's with either 7828SSC or Retumbo, so good stable hunting powders. You can get an extra 50 ft/s with RL-26/33 although I wouldn't recommend it if you value temp stability. It's worth noting those numbers match or exceed the .257 Weatherby factory loads, giving you the same fast hydrostatic stop capability as the quarterbore magnum in the 100-120gr bullet weights.

There are now some remarkable bullets available that weren't historically. For example, the 160gr Woodleigh Weldcore protected point is a legitimate elk/moose bullet with a BC of .51. It will stabilize in the 1:9 twist factory .264 barrels. SD is a whopping .328 - giving similar penetration to a .308 220gr. There is no analogous SD hunting bullet in the surrounding .257, .277 and .284 calibers due to their slower 1:9.5 and 1:10 twists - another good reason to be in the .264.

There's a lot of nonsense around long range hunting these days of course, but one nice feature about the .264WM is that it improves the two unavoidable problems with long shots on game: unpredictable wind (including top-of-flight-path wind) and unpredictable animal movement during long flight time. Both are factors that can messily wound game and which cannot be eliminated by any amount of shooter skill or weapon accuracy. But they can to some degree be eliminated by a faster, higher BC projectile and the .264WM offers the best combination of the two in a factory chambering. You can ethically shoot farther with it than any non-wildcat cartridge. And who has a 6.5 STW anyways?

Recoil is remarkably light - the elk load has the same recoil in a featherweight that a 175gr 7mm mag has in a heavy sporter. The deer and predator loads are downright tame. It may not be a youth round exactly, but most shooters won't have a problem.

The barrel burnout issue is real, but with a 1000-2000 round life for reasonable hunting accuracy and generally the option of one barrel set-back, it isn't an issue for a pure hunting rifle. If you want to shoot targets, well, replacing barrels is part of the cost of doing that.

For all NA game between predators and elk/moose for the reloader, it's hard to argue there's a better cartridge than the .264 WM and its wildcat ballistic twins (6.5 Leopard/WSM and 6.5 SAUM).
 
I'm 37 and my dad has had one in Rem 700 BDL as far back as I can remember. Only used for hunting and has been shot plenty. Barrels still good and very accurate. 264 Win Mag is one awesome cartridge!
 
I came very close to buying a model 70 chambered in the .264 WM in 1980. I still regret not buying that rifle to this day.
 
I came very close to buying a model 70 chambered in the .264 WM in 1980. I still regret not buying that rifle to this day.
After years of borrowing one from time to time, mostly for antelope and sheep hunts, I bought a M70 Featherweight earlier this year. It's next up in the queue for load development, and if all goes well I'll probably use it for an elk/bear combo hunt later this year.
 
I've gone back and forth on whether it's better to have one do it all like a 300 WSM or one deer/goat/sheep gun and one elk/moose gun. I'd put the 240Wby/257wby/270WSM in a similar category as the 264 WM.
 
I'd put the 240Wby/257wby/270WSM in a similar category as the 264 WM.
They're functionally identical for lighter weight bullets, but the .264 goes heavier without needing a custom fast twist barrel and the associated one-off bullets. I'd much rather have it for a do-everything gun than a .300 WSM personally just for lighter recoil if nothing else.
 
Keep us posted. I like the idea of a 6.5 magnum ... been reading up on the 6.5 SAUM.
 
Keep us posted. I like the idea of a 6.5 magnum ... been reading up on the 6.5 SAUM.
That was the other option I looked at closely. Ultimately I went with the .264 because of cost, and because my gunsmith reported some problems with feed reliability as OAL changed on the 6.5 short mags. He'd tune them for your varmint bullet OAL and your elk bullet wouldn't feed well or vice versa. I figured if he wasn't 100% comfortable it was easier to just get the factory gun.
 
Ah yes, the mighty Winchester Model 70 Westerner!:D
"This 264 Winchester Magnum is a man's rifle. It delivers a ton and a half of knock, down power ... with hair-splitting accuracy. If you've always wanted a high-velocity, flat-shooting, ultra-long range rifle, then you're a 264 man."

The above quote is from an original 1962 Winchester catalog. I've mentioned in other threads that my folks had a small country store when I was growing up, and they sold a few guns (before GCA 1968 of course) through it. I still have one of the Winchester catalogs that I spent hours, days studying, instead of studying my homework. And I loved both the 264 Winchester Magnum and the rifle Winchester built to shoot it. Even now that I've learned a lot of what Winchester said about the 264 back then was hype, I don't think it would be considered hype today. In fact, if I ever have another custom rifle built, it will probably be chambered the 264 Winchester Magnum. As you pointed out Llama Bob, with the bullets and powders we have available today, we can easily make a 264 shoot like Winchester said it did in the ballistics charts in the back of their 1962 catalog.:)

Not that it means anything in today's dollars, but in the 1962 Winchester catalog, the list price for the Winchester Westerner is $154.50.:)
 
Sometimes "redundant" cartridges end up taking over the original one. For example, I own a couple .260 Remington rifles and enjoy them. If I was buying today, I'd probably end up with a 6.5 Creedmore. Not because it's better, it's just become more popular (due to marketing, etc) and that's what you find rifles chambered in these days.

The .264WM is kinda the same thing. If I wanted a fast .264 cartridge, I might end up with .26 Nosler because that is more likely easier to come by today in off-the-shelf rifles.

My grandfather once had a .264 WM but it was gone before I came around.
 
The only reason I don't own a M70 Sporter in .264 WinMag is the slower barrel twist. I'd like to push 140 grain VLD bullets faster than my Swede will. Only problem is it is stated on the box that the bullets need a 1:8 twist barrel to stabilize and I don't want to tempt fate. To me the .264 WinMag in a M70 has some serious cachet, even more than a M70 in .270.

I'd love to own a .264 WinMag and may someday but it would have to be in a rebarreled CRF M70.
 
Good write up, ive always been a closet .264 fan. Really the only reason I dont own one is you never see them for sale here.

Im a firm believer in that there is a point where bullet speed (as long as the bullets heavy and or tough enough) helps produce quick kills. I really like heavy for caliber bullets launched between 2700/2800-3100fps. The 6.5s especially the fast ones have always seemed like the perfect balance of speed and bullet weight for my needs. Similar infact to the 7mms im so fond of.

Im at almost 400 shots on my 7mm stw, and 1300 on my barrel total....when this barrels toast im very likely gonna go with either the .264, or a 6.5/300wby (er shaw chamberings) with the lean towards the .264 with a fairly long throat, and a 1-8.
 
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Ah yes, the mighty Winchester Model 70 Westerner!:D
"This 264 Winchester Magnum is a man's rifle. It delivers a ton and a half of knock, down power ... with hair-splitting accuracy. If you've always wanted a high-velocity, flat-shooting, ultra-long range rifle, then you're a 264 man."

The above quote is from an original 1962 Winchester catalog. I've mentioned in other threads that my folks had a small country store when I was growing up, and they sold a few guns (before GCA 1968 of course) through it. I still have one of the Winchester catalogs that I spent hours, days studying, instead of studying my homework. And I loved both the 264 Winchester Magnum and the rifle Winchester built to shoot it. Even now that I've learned a lot of what Winchester said about the 264 back then was hype, I don't think it would be considered hype today. In fact, if I ever have another custom rifle built, it will probably be chambered the 264 Winchester Magnum. As you pointed out Llama Bob, with the bullets and powders we have available today, we can easily make a 264 shoot like Winchester said it did in the ballistics charts in the back of their 1962 catalog.:)

Not that it means anything in today's dollars, but in the 1962 Winchester catalog, the list price for the Winchester Westerner is $154.50.:)

Yes, back when the ad man wasn't afraid to lay it on :D I'm feeling more virile already just for owning one!

By official government inflation number, that would be equivalent to $1261.52 today. Mine cost me $860 shipped and transferred, but it's a featherweight without the sights of the Westerner.
 
The .264WM is kinda the same thing. If I wanted a fast .264 cartridge, I might end up with .26 Nosler because that is more likely easier to come by today in off-the-shelf rifles.

Yeah, I kind of forgot about the 26 Nosler. It's a beast - same thing only more. Probably kicks more than I'd want in a light rifle...
 
The 7mm Remington Magnum in then new Remington 700 bested both .264 and the post 64 Winchester Model 70. It ain't coming back. What I don't understand even very rational calibers like .356 Winchester and .358 Winchester are on their last legs.o_O
 
I recently inherited a Savage 110 in .300 Win mag, and although I haven't so miuch as shot it yet, had the idea it would be my long range target/hunting project. However, I also own a Savage in 6.5 Creedmoor now, and also inherited a 6.5x55 Swede Mauser at the same time as the .300. I'm thinking it would be kind of neat to rechamber the .300 to .264, as I can't see much advantage to the .300, at the cost of additional recoil and muzzle blast, and well, it just seems fun having such a variety of 6.5s to play with :) I'll do a bit of shooting with the .300 and go from there, I suppose.....but darn it, a .264 just seems like THE cartridge for long distance mule deer hunting, of which I have ample opportunity to pursue ;)
 
Personally, I was never too impressed with that cartridge, although I did kill my first brown bear with one...

These days, I've long since got rid of magnum-idis...

DM
 
Ah, the joys of reloading! There is no need to drive any magnum at full capacity for purposes other than long-range hunting/targets (and/or, perhaps, punching your man card). The nice thing about the magnum cases is that the capability is there to drive them hard when needed/wanted. I like the 6.5/.264 bullets that are available. My target rig is a .260 Remington, and when my 7mm Rem SAUM needs to be re-barreled, it will probably be in 6.5 SAUM. I say shoot that .264 Win Mag! But you certainly don't have to drive it to SAAMI maximum pressures!

I didn't start reloading until after I sold my first magnum rifle (a .300 Win Mag). If I had been a reloader, I'd still have that rifle.
 
If someone were inclined to use the 264 WM it'd no doubt kill stuff and do it at long range. I have no issues with anyone using any cartridge that floats their boat. But the 264 WM ain't gonna be mainstream for the same reasons it never caught on in the 1st place. It is considered too much of a good thing. The current spike in the 6.5's is primarily due to the Creedmoor round. It does a very decent job with moderate muzzle velocity and recoil. Shooting the same bullet weights faster does the same thing farther down range, but non magnum 6.5's are legit elk rounds out to 300-400 yards and farther for deer. Not many people can shoot any farther than that anyway.

I think 264 WM will always be one of the niche rounds preferred by guys who want to be different from the crowd. And I don't have a problem with that. At one time in my shooting lifetime I took that path. At this point I just prefer to stick with basic stuff.

What I don't understand even very rational calibers like .356 Winchester and .358 Winchester are on their last legs.

Those rounds have failed because their recoil is far out of proportion to performance. The 358 in particular has recoil that far exceeds 30-06. With bullets over 200 gr it will almost match 300 WM recoil, yet it doesn't perform on game any better than 308, 7-08 or any of the 6.5's. A 140-160 gr 6.5 bullet will easily out penetrate a 358 with 200 gr bullets, and do it with 1/2 the recoil.
 
If someone were inclined to use the 264 WM it'd no doubt kill stuff and do it at long range. I have no issues with anyone using any cartridge that floats their boat. But the 264 WM ain't gonna be mainstream for the same reasons it never caught on in the 1st place. It is considered too much of a good thing. The current spike in the 6.5's is primarily due to the Creedmoor round. It does a very decent job with moderate muzzle velocity and recoil. Shooting the same bullet weights faster does the same thing farther down range, but non magnum 6.5's are legit elk rounds out to 300-400 yards and farther for deer. Not many people can shoot any farther than that anyway.
As is usually the case with cartridges that are adjacent to each other, there's not MUCH difference between the 6.5CM and .264WM. About 25y of point blank range, 125y of overall reach, and 15% wind drift with the 160 Weldcore. Given the very low wind drift and fast velocities, I'd say the extra range is fairly usable - if you'd shoot a .30-06 at 400y, you should be OK with a .264 at 500y from a wind and flight time perspective. Plus the .264 gives you those nice hydrostatic stops with the 100-120gr bullets on deer sized game close in.

As far as being too much, I guess it's relative but with less recoil than .30-06 and 7mmRM in the same weight rifle for the heavy bullets, and the legitimate option to use lighter bullets for lots of things due to high SD, I don't find the .264 excessive even in a featherweight. It would be one of if not the lightest recoiling centerfire I use.

There is a reasonable argument though that .30-06 level recoil is too much for the average shooter (hence interest in the .270 etc). For those looking for less, the 6.5CM is a great option.
 
Winchester offers new production 264 WM model 70s in the sporter, featherweight, and extreme weather SS. They also offer it in the limited super grade maple with AAA stock:

View attachment 705086
The super sure caught my eye.
Until recently (5-7 years or so) ordering a rifle here was a pricey proposition, hell I paid 750 for my 2010 rem sps, so I was pretty well stuck with what I could find on the used market. Now I wouldn't mind ordering one of the new Winchesters.
 
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