An almost semi-automatic and possible CA workaround?

Wouldn't try using a French manufacturer's ideas to get around American law.

Seems to me this would be an "openbolt" type firearm, and the BATF really really truly HATES open bolt guns in the hands of peons. It may be technically legal (or not....I don't know the particulars) but I think you might have federal problems, not to mention any with California.

Does it really matter, from where the idea comes ?

You think the internal combustion engine was an American invention ?

A good idea is a good idea.

There is a similar UK legal AR:



And of course there are pump action ARs as well. I've also seen vids of a Brit AR in 30 Carbine that was a lever action, where the pistol grip was the lever.

Sunray said:

Wouldn't try using a French manufacturer's ideas to get around American law.

Click to expand...

Why not?

That's a very interesting concept and one that I've never seen or heard of. Thanks for posting it. Except I can't imagine how it would be received from a legal perspective. Gonna be interesting to follow this thread to see what type of reactions come forth. I like it..... but we'll have to wait and see what BATF and most politicians, among others, think of it.

IIUC the 'open bolt ban' is actually that the ATF has classified 3 fixed firing pin open bolt guns as 'readily convertible'. I don't think the shotgun and the Brit ARs have fixed firing pins - after releasing the bolt, you still have to pull a conventional trigger. It's hard to see how taking a normal, legal, semi auto and making the bolt stay open every time makes it easier to convert to semi auto than it was before. For example, add a spring to the normal AR bolt release so it always engages just like it normally does when the magazine is empty. How does that make the gun easier to convert to full auto?

BATF really really truly HATES open bolt guns in the hands of peons.

Click to expand...

I admit the video was unclear, but it appears to require a trigger pull after chambering the round so it doesn't seem to be an open bolt gun unless the trigger can be held back and the round fired as soon as it chambers -- in which case it clearly is a machine gun if the bolt catch is held down.

Yeah, AFAIK an actual open bolt design fires from an open bolt. Meaning that pulling the trigger drops the bolt and fires without anything between.
A design that locks the bolt, but which you then drop and then pull the trigger is still, by design, a closed-bolt system.
Whether they rewrite paperwork to affect that is a different level of lawyer excrement.

UK legal ARs have used this approach for a while now. While clever, I don't really see the advantage over a pump shotgun.

I wonder how pump AR conversions are selling in CA?

Sunray said:

Wouldn't try using a French manufacturer's ideas to get around American law.

Click to expand...

If sarcasm was intended I get it, after all they bought and issue Mini 14's to their police.

Simple enough to mod the AR15 to do this - I think - the bolt catch would delete the mag follower and be spring loaded to engage every time. How to push it back down to chamber would be the ergonomic exercise but IIRC there is already a lower that does it with ambi controls.

Submit to CA and wait for approval. Their whining it defeats the purpose of the law would be worth it alone. More salty tears and winning.

Tommygunn said:

Seems to me this would be an "openbolt" type firearm, and the BATF really really truly HATES open bolt guns in the hands of peons. It may be technically legal (or not....I don't know the particulars) but I think you might have federal problems, not to mention any with California.

Click to expand...

It's not open bolt. An open bolt gun releases the bolt when the trigger is pulled and fires when the bolt closes. It appears that this gun releases the bolt, then sits there with a round chambered until the shooter pulls the trigger. Since the bolt is already closed when the trigger is pulled, it's closed bolt.

It's a classic example of Natman's law #23:

If someone is doing something that makes no practical or economic sense, there's probably a government regulation involved.

Neat idea. Just too bad they can't enjoy the freedom that most of us take for granted.

natman said:

It's not open bolt. An open bolt gun releases the bolt when the trigger is pulled and fires when the bolt closes. It appears that this gun releases the bolt, then sits there with a round chambered until the shooter pulls the trigger. Since the bolt is already closed when the trigger is pulled, it's closed bolt.

It's a classic example of Natman's law #23:

If someone is doing something that makes no practical or economic sense, there's probably a government regulation involved.

Click to expand...

Ok then....as indicated by other posts I obviously misunderstood how this gun works. I guess I should be happy I live in a state where the second amendment remains fairly intact.

I still don't really care for this gun.....I think I'll be keeping my Browning Auto 5.

Odd....it appears that it would work as good or better for left hand shooters. Sometimes that right hand thinking works for us.

Mark

natman said:

It's a classic example of Natman's law #23:

If someone is doing something that makes no practical or economic sense, there's probably a government regulation involved.

Click to expand...

Verily, the wisdom is strong with Natman!

It would be faster than a pump AR and I've sent a few there... I like the idea. The fact we are having this conversation is sad but in some places I feel we are simply delaying the inevitable. Its almost like laws aren't taken into account by those who wish to commit violent acts?

HB

I still prefer going featureless or fixed magazine options to comply with California's existing and new 2017/2018 laws.

This "almost" semi-auto option won't do for me or likely other 3-gun match type shooters needing to fire fast double taps.

BTW, here's the link to CA Compliant Featureless Builds thread with growing number of innovative solutions - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...eatureless-builds.815461/page-2#post-10605110

The Southern Gun Co lever release seems like a simple bolt catch. If you hold it down with you thumb while you are shooting does the gun work like a normal semi auto?

"Powder case" loaded naval guns have worked this way beginning in the 1920s, and continued in service through the early 2000s. The case and shell are rammed together, the breech is manually closed, the gun fires by a manual trigger, and recoil ejects the hot case.

As previously stated, this shotgun still fires with the bolt forward, after being closed by a manual lever.

Elkins45 posed the question of how pump AR conversions are selling in CA. As a CA resident, I've not seen much activity. However, I would like to announce the roll-out of a new company that was formed specifically to market a pump AR upper and parts kit that is in response to California's onerous laws. The company is called Outcast Garrison, and the address is www.outcastgarrison.com. We also have a Facebook page. I invite anyone interested in a pump operated AR to look at our products. It is not the only pump AR available, but I think it offers the best combination of design features and true compatibility with the spectrum of AR products available. If there is sufficient interest, we would like to expand the barrel and caliber choices and add other options, but that is in the future. You decide for yourself...I'm biased. We are interested in constructive feedback, so we invite you to please contact.

I am a long time lurker, and newly registered member here. I read much more than I talk, hence the lurking vs posting. Mods....if I'm violating some rule, I apologize. I looked, but didn't see anything applicable. Thanks.

Outcast Garrison: might I suggest you flesh out your web site a little? Post a video of the features, maybe one of assembling the kit. Post the user's manual.

Among the questions I'd have is how it locks up prior to being fired, and how it unlocks w/o being fired (if you want to unload, for example). What part reciprocates - the angled foregrip part? Etc, etc.