Fastest burning powder for 147g 9mm subsonics

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harryman1974

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Just would like to know what the fastest burning powder that's out there being used for 147gn sub's will be using these with a can on my 9mm ar
 
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Just would like to know what the fastest burning powder that's out there being used for 147gn sub's will be using these with a can on my 9mm ar
I like fast powders for lighter recoil target loads and did a comparison "soft recoil load" test with Bullseye, Red Dot/Promo and Titegroup while using 3.5 gr of W231/HP-38 as reference - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/9mm-147-gr-lead-bullet-powder-comparison.748940/

I have not tested these loads in my carbines to see if they would cycle the bolt but should all be sub-sonic.

As to comparison of felt recoil, I used (5) to reflect the felt recoil from reference 3.5 gr of W231/HP-38 and used smaller number to note lighter recoil loads and larger number to note heavier recoil loads.

Glock 22 and KKM 40-9 conversion barrel was used with 1.155"-1.160" OAL/COL for Z-Cast 147 gr lead FP bullets (I wanted to use softer 14-16 BHN bullet for the testing of lighter loads for better bullet base deformation) along with .378" taper crimp. Test done at 10 yards and shot groups were measured center-to-center.

Range Test:

I was pleasantly surprised by Promo loads (used Red Dot load data per Alliant) which produced light/mild recoil loads that were relatively accurate. Bullseye produced light loads that still cycled the slide. 3.5 gr Titegroup produced the smallest shot group.

W231/HP-38 3.5 gr - 1.14" with mild recoil (5)
Promo 3.1-3.3 gr - 1.44" with light recoil (4)
Promo 3.3-3.5 gr - 1.10" with mild recoil (6)

index.php


Bullseye 2.7 gr - 1.46" with very light recoil (3)
Bullseye 2.9 gr - 1.30" with light recoil (4)
Bullseye 3.2 gr - 1.18" with light recoil (4)

index.php


Titegroup 3.1 gr - 1.64" with mild recoil (5)
Titegroup 3.3 gr - 1.26" with mild recoil (6)
Titegroup 3.5 gr - 1.04" with moderate recoil (7)

index.php
 
I use 4.1gr Unique with a variety of plated and FMJ with a COL of about 1.125 (varies a bit with the specific bullet, but whatever fits my Glock and Kahr mags without binding). Very soft shooting and quiet suppressed, and while Unique has a reputation of being "dirty" I find its a very sooty kind of dirt that comes off easily with solvents like Hoppe's or Marvel Mystery Oil (only $20/gallon so I can soak my cans in it).
 
Accurate (Western) List loads with Nitro 100F and 147s. It's #3 on one of burn rate charts I have.
I haven't used it but have used AA#2 (26th on the chart) and Bullseye (13th)..
AA#2 meters great and is clean but dosen't have the velocity of some slower powders.
CFE-P(44th), WSF(37th) or BE86 (?) (what I would call medium to medium slow pistol powders) would get you more velocity but still be subsonic.
 
3.8 grains of 231 produces a pretty much full power 147 load doing about 950 out of a 3" barrel. Meters great and just works very nicely and should remain subsonic through a carbine barrel.
 
My "go to" minor/subsonic 9mm load is 3.1gn on N310 with a berry's 147 @ 1.160"

3.2 of N320 or tightgroup with the same bullet and OAL are close 2nd and 3rd place.

I used Noble Sport BA10 a long time ago, before they quit importing it but I don't remember the exact load and haven't bought any more since they began selling it here again.

N310 and BA-10 are the fastest powders I have ever used and N310 is the cleanest.
 
Fast powder and heavy bullets lowers the perceived recoil, at the same power factor and the small charges make less noise than larger charges of slower powder out of a suppressor.

Of course this all is thrown out the window if the firearm is compensated, at that point you want as much gas as possible to work the compensator so you switch over to large charges of slow powder.
 
Don't know how much vel you will pick up with the longer barrel but 4.0gr of CFE-P is a bit below MAX and gave me close to 900fps average.
Speed of sound is 1125 say 1100 so if you picked up 200fps from the longer barrel you would be close, less and you would have more margin.
CFE-P shot well for me at both 3.7 and 4.0gr
Some chrono #s with 147s
5" 9mm 1911, S+B SP, Mixed range brass, charges as thrown after setting the measure
String: 1
Date: 6/17/2018
Time: 2:55:42 PM
Grains: 147
Hi Vel: 914
Low Vel: 899
Ave Vel: 908
Ext Spread: 15
Std Dev: 6
4.0 CFE-P RMR 147 FN FMJ 1.075
Velocity Power Factor Ft/Lbs
899 132.153 263.778
913 134.211 272.057
914 134.358 272.654
911 133.917 270.867
903 132.741 266.13

Name Xtreme 147 3.4 AA2 1.13
Notes N/A
Number of Shots 5
Extreme Spread 48
Average 871
Standard Deviation 18
Power Factor Average 128
Power Factor Low 123
Power Factor High 130

Shot List Index Velocity Temperature Barometric Pressure Bullet Weight Ft/Lbs Power Factor Date
Xtreme 147 3.4 AA2 1.13 1 884 147 255 130 2/11/2018 12:50
Xtreme 147 3.4 AA2 1.13 2 876 147 250 129 2/11/2018 12:50
Xtreme 147 3.4 AA2 1.13 3 883 147 254 130 2/11/2018 12:50
Xtreme 147 3.4 AA2 1.13 4 880 147 253 129 2/11/2018 12:50
Xtreme 147 3.4 AA2 1.13 5 836 147 228 123 2/11/2018 12:50

Name Xtreme 147 3.9 WSF 1.13
Notes N/A
Number of Shots 5
Extreme Spread 40
Average 904
Standard Deviation 15
Power Factor Average 133
Power Factor Low 130
Power Factor High 136

Shot List Index Velocity Temperature Barometric Pressure Bullet Weight Ft/Lbs Power Factor Date
Xtreme 147 3.9 WSF 1.13 1 884 147 255 130 2/11/2018 12:51
Xtreme 147 3.9 WSF 1.13 2 908 147 269 133 2/11/2018 12:51
Xtreme 147 3.9 WSF 1.13 3 916 147 274 135 2/11/2018 12:51
Xtreme 147 3.9 WSF 1.13 4 891 147 259 131 2/11/2018 12:51
Xtreme 147 3.9 WSF 1.13 5 924 147 279 136 2/11/2018 12:51


String: 2
Date: 2/28/2016
Time: 9:39:46 AM
Grains: 147
Hi Vel: 915
Low Vel: 858
Ave Vel: 894
Ext Spread: 57
Std Dev: 22
RMR 147 Target HP (plated) 1.10 OAL 3.7 WSf
Velocity Power Factor Ft/Lbs
890 130.83 258.523
858 126.126 240.267
911 133.917 270.867
915 134.505 273.251
896 131.712 262.02
 
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