How to make my S&W 442 more civil?

OK, after this thread (https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...ubs-should-i-keep.823717/page-2#post-10600654) I have come to the decision to keep my 442 (the only one on that thread that will probably go is the 2" Rossi, and even that may stick around). If I'm going to use a snub occasionally as a BUG, it makes more sense than a heavier gun. Plus, used gun prices are quite low right now.

So, I want to make it more civil/useful. I don't like shooting it. It is OK with weak target loads, uncomfortable with anything else, and somewhat painful with a good +P.

My 442 has the Secret Service style boot grips that some 442s came out of the factory with as a special edition several years ago. Initially I thought about trying rubber boot grips (I did once shoot someones 642 with rubber grips which seemed much more comfortable to shoot). I love the look of the reddish wood on the black anodized revolver, but this gun is about utility, it is not meant to be a fun gun or safe queen. Though, the thin wood grips are very low profile and they don't snag on anything making them great for CCW and especially pocket or ankle carry as a BUG so they do have some utility. So, I've thought about a few options. Rubber boot grips (Hogue most likely) would tame some of the felt recoil, and they aren't too thick, but they aren't as low profile as the wood on my gun currently and the rubber could catch on clothing when drawing. I've thought about the Pachmayr laminated wood or "Renagade" laminated grips. They are a little bigger and fill the hand better so they would be more comfortable than what I have now, they are wood so they wouldn't snag clothing like rubber can, but they are definitely thicker so they may not be as good in a pocket.

Another issue is the sights and practical accuracy. Easy enough, I have sight paint, the front sight will soon be orange or florescent green. I may also get some Crimson Trace grips. They may or may not help the comfort issue, but they will definitely make it easier to make hits with this gun at a distance, and they'll make a good dry fire training tool. They are expensive though (I could get another Taurus 85 for the price of some of their grips), and I don't love the idea of relying on added battery powered optics.

For the felt recoil, one thought is to download my ammo. Not download my practice ammo when I reload, but to use a lower powered and lower recoil round. This gun will never be carried alone. I don't live in a carry state so I don't ever come home, put everything away, and realize I need to run out to pick up something at the store or gas up my car and drop a gun (with holster) in my pocket (when that happens, I have to be armed with nothing more than pepper spray and a knife). When I carry on my UT non-res permit, I am driving 45min to 2 hours (or more for vacation) to a nearby state. I'm not going out, coming home and removing my gear, and going out again. And, I'm usually dressed for shopping or sightseeing, not synagogue or work. So, when I carry, it is usually just as easy for me to carry a larger and more capable gun. If MD is ever finally forced by a court case to go shall-issue, or I finally make the move to PA or VA, that may change, but for now the only time I see myself using my 442 is when I choose to take it as a BUG. Given that something else will get drawn first, it may be OK to use the 442 with lower recoiling non-+P JHP, lighter grain bullets (maybe 110s or even the low recoil Hornady 90gr Critical Defense), or go with something that is typically more of a target load (148gr wadcutters, or target loaded 158gr SWC), or a combination of those options.

So, anyone have any feedback on these ideas? Anyone try the Pachmayr grips and have feedback on their recoil absorption? Anyone carry their lighweight revolvers with a round that isn't usually considered ideal for defense? How about the Crimson Trace for better accuracy? How are they for comfort?

gotboostvr said:

How are you going to carry this?
In a pocket, ankle?

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Until/unless MD becomes shall-issue or I move, my snubs are only being used as occasional BUGS. Pocket or ankle carry, with the possibility of adding weak side IWB in the future. The times I will do off body (Maxpedition or fanny pack style) I'll have a bigger gun as my BUG. If MD becomes shall issue, or I move, I may do the thing people do and drop it in a pocket on my way out the door to run an errand, so even then, if it gets used as an only gun for a short trip it will still likely be pocket carry. I am a big guy, with big pockets, so I'll try my Taurus 85 with the old Uncle Mikes combat grips in my pocket to see how they work. Though, I think I've tried them before and only the boot grips really work in my pockets.

For the grips, just about anything will be an improvement in comfort over the wood, and very thin, boot grips I have now. I don't love pocket or ankle carry so this is a very occasional use gun (as it is one of my pocket/ankle guns), for most of my snub range practice I have my steel frame Taurus 85CH. I don't see ever carrying it any way other than pocket or ankle since my 85CH is more comfortable and quite easily disappears IWB as does my 3" Rossi 461 (when/if I choose to do a snub IWB). So, I do need something small enough for pocket carry. I may try the Pachmayr wood grips I first was considering and if I can still pocket the gun go that way (they do look good too), or the Pachmayr Compac. Heck, even the standard S&W or Hogue rubber boot grips are a comfort improvement as evidenced by the 642 I once shot. Luckily, none of these are high end custom grips, so I can buy 2 or 3 sets if I need to in order to find the best combo of comfort and concealment (though feedback and through that help narrowing it down to one or two would be preferable).

Jim NE said:

once had a Smith model 37 that was kind of a cool old gun, but it was an alloy frame with the small wood grips, so you felt it kick. I had to tell myself the recoil wasn't that bad in order to justify keeping it. Then I bought a Rossi model 68 from the 1990's. It was a snub, but had a bigger heavier frame with the rubber grips, and shooting it after shooting the S&W was like riding in a Lincoln Town Car after you had been riding in a Jeep. I sold the Smith and kept the Rossi.

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I have a couple current production Rossi 461s. One is a 3" and the other a 2". They are definitely much more comfortable to shoot with .38+P than either my 442 or my Taurus 85. In fact, shooting magnums with the original grips the 2" is similar to shooting .38+P out of the 442 (similar, though the 442 is worse). However, while the 3" has been fine, the 2" hasn't been reliable enough for me to trust it (when shooting magnums the cylinder sometimes sticks). Also, at 26oz, it is a bit heavy for pocket carry. If the 3" continues to cause no problems and I decide I trust it (it is a lot harder to trust it than usual due to my issues with the 2"), the 3" 461 will be my go-to when I decide to carry a small frame revolver on my belt (6 rounds, quite accurate, reasonable recoil with .357mag and .38+P is a pussycat).

RON in PA said:

Another trick with the J frames is to shoot 148 grain wadcutter target ammo.

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Yup, definitely one of the options I'm considering (see 1st post).

I'm heading to Bass Pro Shops in a little bit to buy some ammo. Depending upon what they have in stock, the plan is to get some 148gr wadcutters, 158gr SWC (non-+P), and some non-+P defensive ammo (hopefully they have the "regular" Hornady Critical Defense and maybe a box of something else), and possibly a box of the 90gr Critical Defense (though, after some research I'm not so sure, it seems that it performs much like .380ACP JHP, so I think I'd go with wadcutters or SWC over them).

BSA1 said:

Everything in a handgun is a trade-off. While J-Frame 5 round revolvers are very popular the truth is they are really a advanced, experienced shooters gun. Newbies buy them because they are small and easy to conceal but quickly discover how hard they are to shoot comfortably and accurately. Larger grips help with recoil and better grip but they take away the biggest feature of the J-Frame which is concealment.

bannockburn's 649 represents a excellent compromise between concealment and comfort when shooting it. There are some excellent non+P self-defense ammunition to choose from.

The laser sights may seem like a good idea but you need to master the basic fundamentals with the gun first.

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Just to be clear, I am not a beginner. I have been shooting for nearly 20 years, I bought my first snub nearly 15 years ago, and I have been on this site since a few days after its birth (and on other gun forums before that, including once running/owning one that no longer exists). I am a revolver shooter (medium and large frame revolvers are my 2nd best platform for accuracy, the full sized CZ 75B and 1911 being tied for first). However, small snubs are the hardest guns to master (that is true for everyone, though for those who do devote a lot of time to the platform, they will get better, but that is true of all guns). I'm OK with my 2" 461 and 85 (but no where near what I do with just about everything else). I'm pretty good with the 3" 461. The 442 is the toughest of my guns. The short sight radius, the black on black sights, and the heavy recoil leading to slow follow up shots makes it far from ideal for accuracy (my aging and diabetic eyes don't help with my overall accuracy with that gun either). Painting the sights will help with the first shot, though won't do all that much for the follow up shot speed. That is where the laser may come in, but I'm not sure I want to spend that much and rely on a technological solution (though, it may be better than nothing).

As for the T-grip, they cost more than most of the grip options I'm considering (and I don't really like the looks). If after trying a couple I can't find one that gives me the right combination of comfort and concealment I may give them a try.

Rexster said:

Be sure to hold HIGH on the grip

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Yup. I hold high, because as low a bore axis relative to the hand as possible equals lower felt recoil and less muzzle flip. Still, only so much can be done on a 15oz revolver shooting a round developed for 30+oz revolvers.

I have the free version of photobucket which seems to no longer allow posting photos on forums. So, to give you a good idea what I have on my gun, a few years back S&W sold some of the 442s with Secret Service boot grips, they look just like the Eagles so I assume they are Eagle Secret Service boot grips.

They look just like this: https://www.eaglegrips.com/secret-s...ine-rosewood-secret-service-grips-smooth.html

So, they are very narrow boot grips, they are not hand filling at all (especially with my big mitts). I'm not talking about the current standard rubber boot grips (except as a much more hand filling improvement) or even the thicker wood boot grips they put on the 642LS. My current grips are great for concealment, but terrible for comfort.