The ups and downs of Gunbroker auctions...

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Poper said:
Well, my auction to sell a 6" nickel Python went pretty well. Until the buyer says his FFL will not send or fax a copy of his FFL but requires I send him a copy of my local FFL's license instead. (Little alarm bells and red flags are flying high about now....) :cuss:

I have exchanged a couple of emails with him and his last couple have been a little..... terse, shall we say? I received his payment (check) but my bank says 16 calendar days (12 business days) before they can be sure the check has actually cashed and cleared. He is not happy with this. 'Oh, well', thinks I. 'If this dude's check bounces within the next 11 days, I still have my gun and he has his rubber check.'

There ain't no way this side of Hades that I am shipping any gun without a guy's valid and verified FFL in my little hot hands!

Maybe I'm paranoid, but the more I think about it, the more my skin crawls.... :scrutiny:
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Return the check. I hear those alarm bells too!!!!!
Give him back his check and forget about it.

There is a valid reason you are hearing those bells!!
 
Poper said:
my bank says 16 calendar days (12 business days) before they can be sure the check has actually cashed and cleared.
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I'm pretty sure federal law requires checks on a local bank to clear in two days, and on a nonlocal (i.e. out-of-state) bank, in five days. There are exceptions for new accounts, checks for large amounts, and some other situations.
 
dogtown tom said:
Only if shipping interstate to another nonlicensee.
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Well, keeping in mind that the OP is referring to a handgun, and unless one is an FFL and can use the USPS, one must use a common or contract carrier to ship any handgun, here is from the BATFE Rules:


May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by common or contract carrier?
A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by a common or contract carrier to a resident of his or her or her own State or to a licensee in any State. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm or ammunition, prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm and requires obtaining written acknowledgement of receipt.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(2)(A), 922(a)(5), 922(e) and (f); 27 CFR 478.30 and 478.31]

Sam
 
SHOOT1SAM said:
Well, keeping in mind that the OP is referring to a handgun, and unless one is an FFL and can use the USPS, one must use a common or contract carrier to ship any handgun, here is from the BATFE Rules:


May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by common or contract carrier?
A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by a common or contract carrier to a resident of his or her or her own State or to a licensee in any State. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm or ammunition, prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm and requires obtaining written acknowledgement of receipt.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(2)(A), 922(a)(5), 922(e) and (f); 27 CFR 478.30 and 478.31]

Sam
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Try reading the ACTUAL citations in the US Code given below that FAQ answer.;)
You'll discover why that FAQ is wrong. (and it's been wrong since the day ATF published it and ATF admits it)
This erroneous FAQ answer has been discussed many times.
 
dogtown tom said:
You'll discover why that FAQ is wrong. (and it's been wrong since the day ATF published it and ATF admits it)
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Thanks for the info. Are you trying to point out that federal law requires written notice to be given, as differentiated from simple oral notice, or something else?
 
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MillennialGunslinger said:
Thanks for the info. Are you trying to point out that federal law requires written notice to be given, as differentiated from simple oral notice, or something else?
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No.
Federal law says written notice is required for INTERSTATE firearm shipments.
The FAQ answer makes it appear that all firearm shipments via a common carrier require notification. INTRASTATE does not.

Be aware that the common carrier can have a policy or tariff that requires notification for any shipment.
 
Sorry, guys, I guess I was wrong...but...neither my attorney nor I will be trying to explain to the BATFE that they are wrong. And while they may be wrong, I still won't be out attorney fees.

And BTW, pretty sure the OP's sketchy buyer is in...another state.

Sam
 
MillennialGunslinger said:
Why would he need your local FFL's paper (unless maybe as reassurance if your having your FFL ship the firearm for you)?
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My opinion is some FFL's believe if they stick together (won't except shipment from an individual) they stand to ship more forearms, for a fee of course. They want to discourage people from taking a long gun to the post office and shipping it themselves. Makes perfect sense to me. Even the post office doesn't know their own rules and now some ask to see your FFL. I had to show them their own rules the last time I shipped a rifle. As some FFL's don't bother to be up on state code it makes little sense, to me anyway, to pay for service I don't need.

Handguns are a different story however. Best to use an FFL as they can ship USPS. Much cheaper.

That's just my opinion.

And I notified the dealer and told him it was being shipped and who the buyer was. No problem.
 
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Col. Harrumph said:
I'm pretty sure federal law requires checks on a local bank to clear in two days, and on a nonlocal (i.e. out-of-state) bank, in five days. There are exceptions for new accounts, checks for large amounts, and some other situations.
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Banks play a lot of games. One of them is holding the money as long as they can before they make that money available to you, i.e. crediting your account. Large banks are especially bad about that.
 
Col. Harrumph said:
OK. Apart from the referenced 2010 stipulation that no US-based banks are nonlocal, I don't see a contradiction from what I wrote.
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You wrote: "I'm pretty sure federal law requires checks on a local bank to clear in two days...".
A check clearing a bank is wholly different than having funds available within a couple of days of your deposit.
This is how scammers prey on the ignorant. They send you a check for the firearm, often in an amount greater than the purchase price. They ask that you refund the difference. Several days after you have shipped the firearm, the fake check actually arrives at the bank it was drawn on.....which bounces it back to your bank. Your bank then debits your account for the full amount.
 
I just sold a handgun on gun broker. I have shipped other firearms before and the FFL on the other end has always emailed me a copy of the license. I've also never heard of a bank requiring that much time to clear any check. Next time insist on USPS MONEY ORDER.
BTW, I never tell shipper it's a firearm. I've always managed to ship under Joe Blows name. I call the FFL and send it under the owners name instead of the business name.
 
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Well, just to add a new wrinkle to the discussion, I just sold another handgun on GB.
I get the guy's check yesterday, and it is $0.90 short of the total amount. Now, please understand, I like to write checks for an even dollar amount as well as anyone, and when I do so, I always round up to the next dollar.
I use a local FFL to ship handguns and I generally do not pass on his fee to the buyer, I cover that myself. Ninety cents isn't going to break me, but it really pisses me off that someone expects me to cheat myself out that amount. There's always that one nasty apple that has to ruin a good time. No more mister nice guy on GB.

I'm going to send the J.A.'s check back to him with a copy of the email where I quoted him the exact amount. Now I'm wishing I had charged him for the local FFL's fee.

Maybe I'm going over the top, but this really chaps my hide!
 
Poper said:
Well, just to add a new wrinkle to the discussion, I just sold another handgun on GB.
I get the guy's check yesterday, and it is $0.90 short of the total amount. Now, please understand, I like to write checks for an even dollar amount as well as anyone, and when I do so, I always round up to the next dollar.
I use a local FFL to ship handguns and I generally do not pass on his fee to the buyer, I cover that myself. Ninety cents isn't going to break me, but it really pisses me off that someone expects me to cheat myself out that amount. There's always that one nasty apple that has to ruin a good time. No more mister nice guy on GB.

I'm going to send the J.A.'s check back to him with a copy of the email where I quoted him the exact amount. Now I'm wishing I had charged him for the local FFL's fee.

Maybe I'm going over the top, but this really chaps my hide!
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No I agree with you. It is only $.90. I would require him to send me a Money order in the mail. It will cost him more than 90 cents to do that.
It is similar to the jerks on Armslist who always seem to be short $20 when they show up to do the deal. I immediately walk and am amazed how fast they come up with the other $20. Lol
 
JONWILL said:
No I agree with you. It is only $.90. I would require him to send me a Money order in the mail. It will cost him more than 90 cents to do that.
It is similar to the jerks on Armslist who always seem to be short $20 when they show up to do the deal. I immediately walk and am amazed how fast they come up with the other $20. Lol
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I don't use Armslist but I sold and RV on Craigslist, same concept. Guy shows up that wants to buy. He spends an hour checking everything. Finally he says it needs a new roof. I said I stated that in the ad. He offers $500 below asking. I split the difference. He says he doesn't have half the difference. I told him there was a cash machine a few minutes away. I gave him an hour to get the rest. An hour later he shows up with the cash.

You just have to be prepared to deal with these folks. You know they're coming.

Send the check back certified return receipt and tell him you will find another buyer. If you don't he's going to cause you some more problems. Sounds like he's using just about every angle he can think of to get out of the deal. Buyers remorse maybe.
 
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JONWILL said:
No I agree with you. It is only $.90. I would require him to send me a Money order in the mail. It will cost him more than 90 cents to do that.
It is similar to the jerks on Armslist who always seem to be short $20 when they show up to do the deal. I immediately walk and am amazed how fast they come up with the other $20. Lol
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I like this. However, I am going to send him an email stating his check is no good because the amount is incorrect and his next payment must be via USPS money order in the correct amount. Failure to do so will negate the auction.

Wonder how that will sit?
 
Poper said:
Wonder how that will sit?
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If I were you, I think I'd simply leave mediocre buyer feedback stating why and forget about the 90 cents. Its likely to give you more satisfaction, will warn future sellers, and hopefully suggest him to be more attentive next time. Don't let pride make you waste time, effort and money on getting a few cents you don't care about from a person you'll never meet.

Don't get me wrong, I'd be pissed too, but I'd feel dumb for feeling bothered about something so trivial. That's why, for rare sales, I'd consider sending a paypal invoice for "parts" with the right amount, so they just click and pay and you can send the firearm right away.
 
Don't get me wrong, I'd be pissed too, but I'd feel dumb for feeling bothered about something so trivial.
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I dunno. To me, a breach of trust is not trivial.

I have no problem negating the auction and running it again. I am reasonably sure I can equal or exceed the amount from the first auction.
 
Poper said:
I dunno. To me, a breach of trust is not trivial.
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Unless it is effectively trivial. Motive matters, and like most things, its seldom right to attribute to malice what you can attribute to incompetence. I bet it was more him not caring rather than him feeling like he was benefiting in some real way. Especially considering it was an auction and if it ends up higher or lower than this one isn't in your control. In any case, good luck with the sales. One way or another you'll get your money.
 
I have bought and sold on Gunbroker and must say all of the transactions have been satisfying, some more than others. I use and accept USPS money orders and have never had a problem. Be careful, especially on some other sites, there are scammers out there.
 
Reason I found an FFL in my area that is a good guy to deal with. He accepts shipments from non-FFLs as long as they get him a copy of their state ID.
 
I have sold several hundred guns on GB and it amazes me how many people don't, or can't, read the whole description. Most of my listings are consignments and I have no say in the price and have no authority to haggle or trade. I put that in the description and they still try to lowball me. It has gotten to the point that when I get lowballed I just delete the email.
 
MillennialGunslinger said:
Unless it is effectively trivial. Motive matters, and like most things, its seldom right to attribute to malice what you can attribute to incompetence. I bet it was more him not caring rather than him feeling like he was benefiting in some real way. Especially considering it was an auction and if it ends up higher or lower than this one isn't in your control. In any case, good luck with the sales. One way or another you'll get your money.
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I'LL give him one polite chance to make it good. If he balks, game over.
 
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