Firearm on layaway etiquette

I have never heard of a private FTF sale with time payments outside of a family situation. Lesson learned, and you got your money back. The old guy just probably was keeping mental track of who was paying on what gun, instead of tagging them or writing it down. There was a saying about memory and aging, but I can't seem to remember it.......

Sounds like an honest mistake, not an attempt to defraud. You got your money back so you are luckier than many who get caught in a mistake.

The dealer is not at fault, owes you nothing. If you are really eager to own the gun in question, you could ask the dealer to contact the new owner and see if he is willing to sell. If you make it profitable enough for the new owner, you might still get the gun.

Sounds like a can of worms. Not worth the effort. Unless you enjoy haggling over something.

The situation seems to have been remedied, although if it was me, it wouldn't be to my satisfaction.

Glad you got your money back, but it's the gun you wanted and now don't have.

orpington said:

Thoughts?

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Quite frankly, I find it hard enough trusting that a Gunbroker Seller (a stranger) has been honest & forthright and will properly package the firearm that I have purchased.

I doubt that I would be able to extend such trust for 6 months while paying off the item and depending upon it being both available and in exactly the same condition as when I made the deal.

I think that the only circumstance in which I would consider such a layaway deal would be with a (family) friend/acquaintance, someone well-known in my immediate circle.

orpington

I agree with others who believe it was just an honest mistake on the part of the elderly owner and that the dealer was unaware of what had previously transpired with your layaway situation. As you say: "lesson learned".

Just to note a related issue with elderly owners selling off their collections -- if the guns have appreciated substantially, it might be better to let them go into the estate, and have the heirs sell them off. That way, they get the benefit of "stepped-up basis" (the fair market value at the date of death) and thereby avoid the capital gains tax. Otherwise, the old guy might have a substantial tax bill, which would become a liability of the estate. (That's assuming that everybody is 100% honest regarding their tax obligations.) This is particularly relevant regarding appreciated machine guns, after the Hughes Amendment. Remember that the ATF has a record of all registered machine guns. They can share tax information with the IRS.

"On layaway" is paying with credit. Isn't a good idea to buy your toys on credit. Even with a credit card. Even worse in 'a family situation' or in this case a private sale with a guy who could have just said COD or nothing. Remember. In god, we trust. All others pay cash.
Fortunately, the whole thing worked out without the courts being involved. In court, the case would depend on whether or not your State recognises an e-mail as a legal bill of sale. The dealer would simply be a witness for one side or the other.

Just curious Orpington. What make and model was it?

orpington said:

In the interest of anonymity on this forum, I will decline naming the specifics, but it was a revolver that fires cartridges produced in the mid 1870's.

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Oh okay gotcha

Here's the best layaway plan:
Take the money you would have been paying him and place in a seperate 'gun account'. That way when a deal comes up you've got cash in hand. Pay in advance, NOT behind. I've got an envelope marked Gun Funds just for that reason. Put away a little extra now and then.

entropy said:

...The old guy just probably was keeping mental track of who was paying on what gun, instead of tagging them or writing it down. There was a saying about memory and aging, but I can't seem to remember it.......

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This.

The elderly gentleman had probably never sold a gun in his long life, let alone used one of them new-fangled computer things...I was gonna add more, but I can't 'member what I was gonna say.

Sam

No one in their right mind can anywhere AFFORD to have any spare cash laying around.

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Actually my finance planner wants me to have. $50k CASH reserves upon retirement. Asked where to put it he said in the bank OR a pillow case.

The market will always correct and it's overdue yesterday. I wish I would have had all my investments in a pillow case during the last down turn when I lost 25% value

Just so I understand how this works, you want to keep your money earning all it can while making someone you're buying a product from wait for his.

Dude....you're bass-ackwards on the money thing. If your money is just sitting when interest rates are 16%, you're losing 16%. Since interest is effectively zero, you're losing nothing.

Trust me. I'm 66 and lived thru the Jimmy Carter years. Products would have one or two price increases a month. If you had a $100 bill in January, by December it was worth $80.

No one in their right mind can anywhere AFFORD to have any spare cash laying around.

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IMHO, nobody in their right mind ties all their assets up in non-liquid assets.
Theoretically a stock can go to zero. Stocks often do lose value. Apple hasn't released an innovative/revolutionary product since Jobs died. I'm amazed the stock still flies so high.

The best thing about cash versus a stock, is that cash is liquid and available on a moment's notice.

A person just needs to set his priorities, I guess.

And...if you guys don't turn this thread back around to GUNS...right away, it will get locked (trust me, I know).

Sam

Reading your post it sound like a Colt 1873 Peacemaker.

If it was original to the time frame and was in decent shape you should have taken out a loan to get it, depending on the price he listed it for.

I might be wrong but the only reason I see to be upset is that you got a smoking good deal on it and are upset someone else got it.

He probably got offered more than what you were going to pay. He didn't know for sure if you were going to make all the payments or not

I look at it just like Armslist or Craigslist. The one first with the cash gets it.

Like everyone has said, you got lucky that you got your money back. I have been on the other side of "layaway' sales and they don't always turn out as well you yours did. I learned a long time ago that to be able to buy things like guns and toys, you need access to ready cash. Sometimes, "i will pay you on payday" 'ain't good enough. I started putting away a 20.00 bill every paycheck when I was just a kid with a part time job. Now, I'm 60 and I still look for deals. But I keep a cash in my safe just for times like yours. You don't have to save a lot, but if you are consistent, it will pay off down the road.

With the way interest rates are, tell me how anyone ever has any cash laying around anymore?

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If you're younger (I'm not) you can afford to invest in stocks and speculate on stock price appreciation alone as the payoff for the investment. I need regular cash flow - so I don't do that.

If you want cash, you need to invest in instruments that pay interest like short term corporate bonds (5 years or less). They pay money quarterly and you get your entire investment basis back at the end of the bond term. I have several that pay more than 7% and one that pays over 10%. You have to be careful with the company you pick and you need to understand bond ratings to do this.

The other investments are stocks that pay dividends.. None of the dividends on stock I own are under 3.5%. Some are in the 6% - 8% range. If the stock appreciates in value, that is a bonus on top of the dividend.

With certain stocks, I set a trailing sell stop that transitions with the price of the stock. As an example, I have one investment that just "stopped out" and paid me $34,000 more than I had in the cost basis because the stock had appreciated, when the stock price dropped below the trailing stop it automatically sold giving me a net gain of $34,000 in that investment.

Using this strategy, my portfolio made 16% last year and is at about 9.5% this year because of the decline in energy stocks (specifically EXXON and Chevron). I don't care about the decline in stock price with these two and they have no trailing stop - they always pay a quarterly dividend and the lower price is still well above what I paid for the stock if the stock sold, and if the stock sold I'd have a lot of capital gains - I'd rather hold on to the stock and receive the dividend than pay capital gains tax on the stock sale.

I always have cash accumulating in my accounts because of dividends, and the problem becomes where to put the new money.

You can have cash available with investments but not by putting them into ANY investment instrument sold by a bank (CD, annuity, etc.) - they just don't pay a realistic return.