Does anyone have or know a good "What to do after a self-defense shooting" "Cheat-sheet"?

As much as I like cooperating with the police this is an entirely different situation. If there are witnesses they will be questioned. Their version of what happened may be entirely different than your version. Generally a witness who has no interest in a shooting will give the police an accurate account of what they saw or know. I've cooperated with prosecutors in shooting investigations.

Why would anyone want to start a defense without an attorney? The police are not prosecutors so why would anyone feel an overwhelming desire to cooperate with them before you even know if you are going to be charged? The truth and full accounting will surface eventually. No need to speed things up by trying to appear to be Mr. nice guy. The police really don't care one way or another. What you say to them isn't going to change anything on the ground one way or another. It may however incriminate you.

Just doesn't make any sense to me.

The first three things you do:
1-call 911 (if someone else hasn't)
2-call your attorney
3-keep your mouth shut. Period. Until advised by your attorney.

Even in a righteous self defense scenario, the police and the DA will be up your arse with a magnifying glass, until THEY determine you are in the right.

Regarding calling 911...

Be very careful what you say to the Dispatcher. Most of us know that all 911 calls are recorded and admissible as evidence in Court.

But how many realize that Dispatchers are trained to keep you on the telephone asking questions that are not relevant to the immediate emergency. In the large city I work in the Dispatcher will call you back if you hang up asking more questions. The more information they can get avoids Miranda issues.

Spats McGee said:

Kleanbore has already answered this, and quite well, but I'm going to touch on it again. The primary reason to talk to the police in an SD shooting is to get the investigation started in the right direction. The SD shooter needs to identify witnesses and evidence that will support his version of the events before both vanish into the wind. In many jurisdictions, SD is an affirmative defense, which puts the burden of proof on the defendant to show that the shooting was, in fact, SD. Even in those jxs where SD is a regular defense, a burden of production (to put forth some evidence) that the shooting was SD is still in play. If an SD shooter doesn't talk to the police at all, his side of the story doesn't get told.

If I am ever involved in an SD shooting (Heaven forbid), there are some things I want:
1. I want the police dispatched to my location to have an accurate description of me, and I want them to know that I am armed before they arrive. (There's a time and place for surprises. This ain't it.)
2. I want my name listed next to the word "Victim" on the Arrest / Disposition Report, and not next to "Suspect." Hence, if I am able, I will call 911 immediately after the shooting. This will also allow me to give the dispatcher my description and let them know that I'm armed. Hopefully, they'll communicate all of this to the officers dispatched to my location.
3. I want the police to know about each and every witness, camera, or other piece of evidence that will corroborate my version of events.

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I'm just following your advice on your tag line. I'm paying for legal advice.

Mostly it disagrees with yours and so does CCW and USCCA.

Spats gives some very good advice.

1. Whatever you do, do not lie to the police: Not even about stuff unrelated to the self defense shooting.

2. Do not be interviewed on TV.

Former Oklahoma City pharmacist Jerome Ersland is sitting in prison having been found guilty of murder. He shot and killed an incapacitated robber. Ersland was interviewed on TV. He lied to the police about his military service. Later Ersland lied when he told police the deceased perp had a gun. He even planted cartridges near where the body lay.

IMO: Had Ersland not lied, had he not planted the cartridges and had he not appeared on TV he would have gotten by on a lesser charge.

If a self defense shooting goes to court the opposing attorney is required to do everything within the law to help his client.
One of those things will be looking for anything you have said on record that could be twisted to look like a lie or somehow lay blame on you.
If a 911 call is necessary I would get someone else to make it, if possible.
Beyond what is necessary for the safety of yourself and others I think it would be wise to say nothing without representation..

Kleanbore said:

Good idea.

BUT when one does so, two things are extremely important: (1) is the advice pertinent to the question act at hand, and (2) is the provider of said advice sufficiently knowledgeable of the specific legal principles involved?

Regarding the first, the mounting of a defense of justification after a use of force incident is very different indeed from what would be involved in trying to prevent the state from proving beyond a reasonable doubt that a client did not commit the act in the first place. Advice that would be appropriate for the latter could destroy the client's chances in the former.

Regarding the latter, it did not take me very much effort in interviewing local attorneys to realize that many of them are just not all that knowledgeable of self defense law. Essentially, the most valuable thing I learned was a list of attorneys whom I should not consult.

Spats' recommendations here are consistent with those of Mas Ayoob, Andrew Branca, Marty Hayes, and if there is an attorney who substantively disagrees, I will not be his or her client in a self defense case.

By the way, "insurance" may be a good thing to have, but one would understand what a policy will cover, what it will not, and how it differs from competing products.

Keep in mind also that if the corroborating evidence necessary to support the defense disappears before it has been identified and secured, no amonuntt of insurance, and no legal advice, will make up for the loss.

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If you purchase SD insurance you might want to make sure you are comfortable with the attorneys the service offers in the areas you travel. I'd hate to call 1-800-saveme at 2am and get an attorney you do not like or trust. Lots of homework........

Mike

i'm not lawyer, i do not play a lawyer on TV, nor did i stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night. However, i'm familiar with several self defense shooting cases in OK and TX and my own two cases over 50 years ago. i'm not sure how things work in your state: But i can't believe that the police routinely arrest everyone involved in self defense shootings.

1. The police are not your enemy: They can help you. A refusal to co-operate with police could lead to arrest, a search warrant and a very thorough investigation.

2. The police know where you live; they can find you if they have additional questions.

3. In OK shooters in straight forward self defense cases are seldom arrested.

4. In one OK case the shooter in a fatal home invasion was allowed to return to work in the oilfields of Argentina for a six month period. He squared it away with the sheriffs office when he came back to the US.

IMO: If you were arrested after shooting someone you have successfully passed the first roadblock to trial by jury. The next roadblock is the prosecutor.

alsaqr said:

3. In OK shooters in straight forward self defense cases are seldom arrested.

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That's in OK which has passed a stand-your-ground statute. Granted, many states now have some sort of SYG statute, but some don't.

Best to know the case law and statutes in the state where you live or happen to be at the time. Only an attorney who is licensed to practice in that state will know what those are.

Mr Gunslinger, As the owner of a "self-defense/concealed carry" insurance policy, being in possession of a "cheat sheet" detailing what steps you plan to take after shooting and possibly killing somebody in self defense may not be the wisest thing you can do.
Whether logical or not, provable or not, it's not really a stretch to envision some dirt bag lawyer claiming you conspired to attempt to murder his client. That the client was attacking you is merely coincidental.

Both Kleenbore and Spats have given excellent advice above along with others cited.

Regarding cheat sheets or any other document that you produced can be used against you (statements against interest by the accused are not hearsay by definition) but not necessarily for you (requires a dreary recitation of hearsay rules that differ from state to state). However, if you take training from instructors (even better would be those who have qualified as expert witnesses in other courts), then that instructor, training records, training materials, etc. could be introduced as evidence to your training regarding self defense. A self-produced document would not have that effect as you would have to take the stand and the weight that the jury would place on that document might not be that great (if it was even admissible). That is why Massad Ayoob (and maybe others) actually has students hand write notes during his classes so that these notes can be authenticated as coming from the individual in that class.

A key reason that Zimmerman did not have to take the stand was because of his videotaped walkthrough with the police and that a federal air marshal friend who helped train Zimmerman could explain the reasonability of Zimmerman's actions to the jury and document Zimmerman's care and concern with complying with Florida law.

Second, one poster above seemed not to realize that a holdout juror or two does not preclude the state from trying you again from a mistrial (and if you can't make bail keeping you in jail). If I recall properly, former Guns and Ammo editor Richard Venola's case involved two trials on a self defense shooting with the potential for a third one if the prosecutor did not drop the case. It also seemingly ruined his career as well.

Most of you won't get a court appointed attorney at state's expense either--a court must approve indigency status. Typically, you also don't get to choose your court appointed attorney either. Thus, a case that goes to a grand jury and that is "no billed" (no indictment issued) "may" cost you only in the neighborhood of $10,000 in legal fees plus the non-refundable portion of a bail bond if applicable (about ten percent of total bail amount). A case going to court can be extremely expensive; for example, my relative represented a defendant with several other attorneys in a nationally covered death penalty case where the total defense legal costs exceeded $600,000 including expert witnesses and the like to get an acquittal. The family involved had to sell property to pay the legal bills but how much is your freedom worth?

One of the reasons that I value the THR versus some other forums is that the moderators try to steer people to avoid legal peril and involve themselves in the discussions to indicate why certain actions are bad ideas.

Frank Ettin said:

Where local counsel become especially important, beyond the mere fact that in general one can't practice law in a State unless licensed in that State, is litigation. It can be very helpful to be represented by someone experienced in the particular court who is familiar with the judges, the administrative personnel, and the local administrative rules.

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Sounds reasonable.

No way I would talk to Law Enforcement about what happened. They might remember what you said in their own version of it without trying to be dishonest. I am a 30 year law enf. veteran and I can promise you it is much better for your attorney to pass along any information you have to offer. Police cannot testify to what someone else says you said, but what you say can be repeated and entered into evidence and spun to hell and back. There is usually nothing to say that can't wait a day and be told through your attorney if he chooses. Watch the video "Dont talk to the police". It is very good advice. The cop investigating your legitimate self defense shooting may be an anti gun nut. You don't know.

Lots of scare mongers here...