Is anyone hunting with 300 B-O subsonic this year?

I hunt the tidewater region of VA with a 300 blk and a can... but not with subsonics.

Not much in the way of reliably expanding subsonic rounds coupled with limited range unless you want to lob em up and over kills subsonic hunting for me.

I have found 300 blk to be effective on whitetails in this area using loads in the 110gr range.

They're great hog guns from about 120 yds and in from what I understand. They shoot in a rainbow once you go any further out from my understanding?

Absolutely. I'm going to test the Lehigh bullets in SIMTEST beforehand.

Not unless it's a different bullet from the standard A-Max load. The A-Max was designed for .300 magnums and doesn't expand at all at subsonic velocities. I wouldn't use them unless I was strictly doing head shots on hogs. These bullets were recovered from SIMTEST and could be reloaded and fired again. The one on the right is a Remington 220gr.

Has anyone tried these in gel or flesh:

http://www.shootersproshop.com/nosler-30-caliber-220-grain-ballistic-tip-rn-blem-50ct.html

Optimal expansion velocity is listed as 1,000 fps. I think they're relatively new, and not too expensive, if they really do expand in subs, they might be a good (relatively) option.

For the 220 gr noslers...

Quickload says you should be good out 100 to keep above 1000 fps starting from 1070 fps. With a 100 yd zero, that puts you about 3" high at 50 yds, 12" low at 150 yds, and 33" low at 200 yds.

If expansion is good at 1000 fps, then I could see using them.

pdsmith505 said:

For the 220 gr noslers...

Quickload says you should be good out 100 to keep above 1000 fps starting from 1070 fps. With a 100 yd zero, that puts you about 3" high at 50 yds, 12" low at 150 yds, and 33" low at 200 yds.

If expansion is good at 1000 fps, then I could see using them.

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I think that 220gr Ballistic tip is designed for subsonic expansion, I read the 1,000 fps as an ideal impact velocity as opposed to a minimum. I believe that 220gr bullet is the same one that's used in the expanding Noveske and Nosler subsonic 300 blk factory loads. I certainly wouldn't use .30 cal subs for hunting unless it was with a bullet specifically designed to expand at subsonic velocities... Usually those bullets are really expensive, if the Nosler expands well, it would be by far the cheapest.

That's interesting. I'll have to get some of those to test. Gonna order a box of the SSA ammo to try.

Looks like the Nosler load uses a match hollowpoint that probably doesn't expand and the Noveske comes up unavailable.

FL-NC said:

Wow. Starting to wonder if I even need to keep this thing. As far as using it unsuppressed, I may as well use my 243, 308, or AR (all very accurate and proven on deer and hogs).

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Thats pretty much why i let mine go, interesting cartridge to play with, and the ranch is a really sweet little rifle....but I always ended up reaching for something else.....
Those Noslers are one of only a couple bullets ive seen that are supposed to expand at subsonic velocities. If you DO chose to use the aac, id probably go with those.

I did come up with some pretty quite unsupressed loads wiht the 245MBC, but couldnt bring myself to try them on anything living. drop was too sever to risk being an inch or two off with a bullet that punched a pencil hole.

Gtscotty said:

I think that 220gr Ballistic tip is designed for subsonic expansion, I read the 1,000 fps as an ideal impact velocity as opposed to a minimum. I believe that 220gr bullet is the same one that's used in the expanding Noveske and Nosler subsonic 300 blk factory loads. I certainly wouldn't use .30 cal subs for hunting unless it was with a bullet specifically designed to expand at subsonic velocities... Usually those bullets are really expensive, if the Nosler expands well, it would be by far the cheapest.

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Agree with everything you just said, the kicker is the drop though. If I remember right, sighting in at 150 puts you 7" high at the peak of the arc... etc. That starts to get way out of my comfort zone to get past 100 yds.

I'm just not a fan of holdovers for hunting.

FL-NC said:

Wow. Starting to wonder if I even need to keep this thing. As far as using it unsuppressed, I may as well use my 243, 308, or AR (all very accurate and proven on deer and hogs).

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LoonWulf said:

Thats pretty much why i let mine go, interesting cartridge to play with, and the ranch is a really sweet little rifle....but I always ended up reaching for something else.....
Those Noslers are one of only a couple bullets ive seen that are supposed to expand at subsonic velocities. If you DO chose to use the aac, id probably go with those.

I did come up with some pretty quite unsupressed loads wiht the 245MBC, but couldnt bring myself to try them on anything living. drop was too sever to risk being an inch or two off with a bullet that punched a pencil hole.

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.300 blk fills a very specific niche for me, it allows me to use an AR-15 for deer in VA where anything bored less than .240 isn't allowed. That 300blk SBR is mighty handy in dense trees and small stands.

pdsmith505 said:

.300 blk fills a very specific niche for me, it allows me to use an AR-15 for deer in VA where anything bored less than .240 isn't allowed. That 300blk SBR is mighty handy in dense trees and small stands.

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Grendel, soccom, bushmaster.

I really don't understand why the 300blk became so popular. Especially with cans. It's such a limited cartridge with poor bullet selection for expansion performance at subsonic speeds.

Some will reply: "Well its a 30cal cartridge for standard AR platform and magazines". Uhh...ok. Woohoo? Then run it at appropriate 30cal speeds to allow the bullets to expand properly. Quiet is great. But bullet performance means way more (to me at least).

horsey300 said:

Grendel, soccom, bushmaster.

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AR deer hunting?
6.8 SPC FTW

BigBore44 said:

I really don't understand why the 300blk became so popular. Especially with cans. It's such a limited cartridge with poor bullet selection for expansion performance at subsonic speeds.

Some will reply: "Well its a 30cal cartridge for standard AR platform and magazines". Uhh...ok. Woohoo? Then run it at appropriate 30cal speeds to allow the bullets to expand properly. Quiet is great. But bullet performance means way more (to me at least).

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Yup, bullet choice for hunting with the .300 blk is limited. That being said, I've had plenty of good experiences with my hunting loads (granted, they aren't subsonic). Great expansion and performance from dead right there to a 50 yd run. There are loads that work fantastic, and it certainly doesn't take a 300 win-mag to ethically down a white tail. Who knows, I might pick up a box of the Noslers mentioned above, see if they expand, and work something up for next year.



Then, when deer season is up, 20 clicks on the eotech and I'm back to super duper quiet shooting with cheap subsonic loads.

300blk may not be the most powerful, or have the widest choice in good hunting bullets, but it's a remarkably versatile round that is cheap to get into. No special bolt, no special magzine, brass is easily made from .223/5.56, lots of good cast bullets for plinking, and I send them down the same can as my .308. Hell, I even use the same powder that I put in my .41 magnum.

YMMV, but for me it was the right choice. Just have to understand the limitations of the round to enjoy the benefits.

Gtscotty said:

AR deer hunting?
6.8 SPC FTW

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Right-o it's been a WEEK and I knew I was missing one but just couldn't figure out which one it would be off the top of my head, and I'm a 6.8 spc admirer as well, so thanks for pointing that one out!

pdsmith505 said:

Yup, bullet choice for hunting with the .300 blk is limited. That being said, I've had plenty of good experiences with my hunting loads (granted, they aren't subsonic). Great expansion and performance from dead right there to a 50 yd run. There are loads that work fantastic, and it certainly doesn't take a 300 win-mag to ethically down a white tail. Who knows, I might pick up a box of the Noslers mentioned above, see if they expand, and work something up for next year.

View attachment 760506

Then, when deer season is up, 20 clicks on the eotech and I'm back to super duper quiet shooting with cheap subsonic loads.

300blk may not be the most powerful, or have the widest choice in good hunting bullets, but it's a remarkably versatile round that is cheap to get into. No special bolt, no special magzine, brass is easily made from .223/5.56, lots of good cast bullets for plinking, and I send them down the same can as my .308. Hell, I even use the same powder that I put in my .41 magnum.

YMMV, but for me it was the right choice. Just have to understand the limitations of the round to enjoy the benefits.

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Ok let's dissect what you stated. Just kidding. I see the point from a plinking standpoint. Just not from a hunting standpoint. Quiet is quiet. But there isn't a can made that can quiet a supersonic bullet that the other animals won't here it.

I've made several "double kills" with my rifles. Shoot one, the others jump and then just stand there and look around, shoot another. And we're talking from full power loads from 30-06, 44mag, 444, 45-70. I've also shot doubles where I shoot one, wait 5 minutes and another comes walking down the same path/trail.

To me, the can is the reason it's popular. Because the AR platform, even the standard AR's, offer a huge array of cartridge options for hunting that are far superior to the 300blk canned at sub speeds. Especially when we are talking about deer. But to each their own. If you make it work, good for you. And it sounds like you have.

The .300 is of limited utility but it also has advantages that other cartridges do not and they should not be ignored. The most glaring is that it is designed for suppressor use AND with short barrels. It's a small case that works perfectly well with small powder charges for subsonic loads. Unlike many others, its standard twist rate works with heavy bullets at low velocity. Bullets which, by the way, are four times heavier than your standard .223 round. A subsonic .223 is a .22LR. A subsonic .300BO is comparable to a .45ACP. Big difference. Put an 8" barrel on a .223 or .308 and you've neutered it. You also have the option of going supersonic, halving bullet weight and doubling your effective range. All without making a single change to your rifle, be it an AR or bolt gun. And it does it all with cheap, readily available brass, affordable bullets or relatively cheap ammo. The .450 and .458 are great cartridges but you couldn't order a case of 1000rds for $500 like I just did for the .300. Much less a sackful of once-fired, resized brass for $50.

Fact is, there are cartridges that do some of what the .300BO does but none that do it all. It has a lot going for it, it just requires a little more of the user than pappy's `06.

CraigC said:

A subsonic .223 is a .22LR. A subsonic .300BO is comparable to a .45ACP.

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(Mostly in jest) Interesting how a .223" stays a .223". But magically the .308" becomes a .452". Come on Craig. That's a point even you would argue. Even if your arguing energy levels. And if you put an 8" barrel on any rifle cartridge, you neuter it. Other than those two statements, I pretty much agree with you. The ability to go sub and supersonic has its advantages. My original statement argued against sub for hunting.

Obviously you're a 300blk fan just like pdsmith505. And that's perfectly fine. For me (ME) I just don't see the point. And that's ok too.

A 55gr vs a 220gr???

BigBore44 said:

And if you put an 8" barrel on any rifle cartridge, you neuter it.

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I know, that's the point. The difference is that the .300BO takes a significantly lesser hit on velocity and doesn't singe off your eyebrows. Only losing about 200fps over a 16", versus 700-800fps for the .223.

CraigC said:

A 55gr vs a 220gr???

I know, that's the point. The difference is that the .300BO takes a significantly lesser hit on velocity and doesn't singe off your eyebrows. Only losing about 200fps over a 16", versus 700-800fps for the .223.

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Just to make the comparison a little more apples to apples, you need to compare heavy for caliber on both calibers. A 77grain 5.56 is going to have a much less loss of velocity percentage than the 55grain you quoted.

I think the difference between a 16" and 10.5" 5.56 shooting 77 grains is around 6-7% (LINK: 16" vs 10.5" velocities (77gr) = 2,680fps vs. 2,513fps = ~6.5% loss) velocity loss at least from internet chatter (I have no personal experience with a chrony on this but the two links provided are from the same person on different platforms). This would be close to the same as the 4-5% loss that the 300 BO experiences (Link: 16" vs 10.5" Velocities = 1,010fps vs 963fps = ~4.5% loss). This is why our forces like the 77gr OTM bullet for their 10.5" SBR's, and why I have a couple of magazines loaded for a SD barrier round for my AR, they do very well for added sectional density for penetration.

But I do agree the 300BO does well in this area, but we should do our best to compare across platforms with similar weight to caliber bullets.

I used to own a 300BO 8.2" pistol, and while novel, I sold it after a year and assembled a 7.62x39 upper. After researching closer the 7.62x39, I realized the 300 doesn't do anything for ME that the 7.62x39 would do for me, and often the russian does it better. The only reason the 300BO makes sense in my mind is if one is going to suppress, if that isn't in the cards then there isn't much point to it in my mind.

Sorry to Hijack this thread.

But back to the OP, I would strongly suggest one consider one of the premium frangible bullets out there for hunting, I think penetration will be adequate, but one needs to make the bullet transfer it's energy into the game rather than sail right through the other side. I would think once someone finds a 200+ grain bullet that will expand at subsonic velocities the 300 blackout would make a very nice closer distance small to medium game cartridge.

I think once the bullet manufacturers catch up to the consumer desires for subsonic .308 expanding bullets, the 300BO will make a lot more sense to more people.

@FL-NC: What does your American Ranch loaded out with optic and suppressor weigh? I'm sure once you find a good bullet that will make a very nice and quiet walk around gun for hunting. Make sure you let us know how it does if you end up taking it out this year. It would be nice to see recovered bullets and see how they expand along with your velocities.

Looks like there are several manufacturers trying to develop bullets for such needs:

Engel Ballistic Research - .308 Subsonic bullets several types
Lehigh Defense - .308 Maximum Expansion
Lehigh Defense - 168gr Controlled Expansion - Very interesting bullet design
Outlaw State Bullets - 208gr.

<*(((>< said:

Just to make the comparison a little more apples to apples, you need to compare heavy for caliber on both calibers. A 77grain 5.56 is going to have a much less loss of velocity percentage than the 55grain you quoted.

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So three times the weight as opposed to four? And you're comparing supersonic to subsonic. Bottom line is that the .223 needs velocity to work and a subsonic .223 is useless for anything bigger than small game. The .300 does both and is useful on deer sized game. The .223 needs speed to work. Again, the whole point here is that lots of cartridges cover one end of the spectrum or the other but the .300 does both.

<*(((>< said:

I think the difference between a 16" and 10.5" 5.56 shooting 77 grains is around 6-7% (LINK: 16" vs 10.5" velocities (77gr) = 2,680fps vs. 2,513fps = ~6.5% loss) velocity loss at least from internet chatter (I have no personal experience with a chrony on this but the two links provided are from the same person on different platforms). This would be close to the same as the 4-5% loss that the 300 BO experiences (Link: 16" vs 10.5" Velocities = 1,010fps vs 963fps = ~4.5% loss). This is why our forces like the 77gr OTM bullet for their 10.5" SBR's, and why I have a couple of magazines loaded for a SD barrier round for my AR, they do very well for added sectional density for penetration.

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What velocity a factory subsonic load loses is irrelevant. If you're using a shorter barrel, you would adjust your powder charge so the velocity would be the same. I was also talking about 8" barrels. With regards to velocity loss between long and short barrels, the .300 is going to come out on top by sheer virtue of the powders used.

<*(((>< said:

The only reason the 300BO makes sense in my mind is if one is going to suppress, if that isn't in the cards then there isn't much point to it in my mind.

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I agree but that is what it was designed for.

<*(((>< said:

Looks like there are several manufacturers trying to develop bullets for such needs:

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The .300 has earned a bum rap because some folks use standard 200-220gr bullets designed for the .300 magnums for hunting. As pictured above, they do not expand at all and their performance on game is dismal. Once more major manufacturers like Nosler introduce bullets designed to expand at subsonic velocities, the cartridge will really come into its own.

CraigC said:

Once more major manufacturers like Nosler introduce bullets designed to expand at subsonic velocities, the cartridge will really come into its own.

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I agree. It's still lobbing them. But so do I with my hot loaded 444 and 45-70. I'm just lobbing much bigger/heavier bullets. I'm interested to see how they (Noslers) actually perform on game.