Looks like SIG was not the only one ...

What's the probability of a gun falling at that precise acute angle of 30 degrees after being pulled from a hide away holster and not turning nor twisting in anyway shape or form

How bad's your luck?

I figure most of my good luck is used up since I'm lucky enough to be an American.

JohnKSa said:

High enough that I'll bet you wouldn't want someone drop one so that it landed at a random angle with a loaded chamber while you were nearby.

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Yes. We wouldn't want to be around any gun that's dropped, but especially not a p320 right now given the fact that they fire pretty consistently when dropped and landing just right. I think that's why this is such a big deal, because of the percentage of fires that occur from the drops. Something like 75% when dropped and landing at that -30 degree angle or whatever it was

Zerodefect said:

Any fire arm I'm going to carry has to withstand things hitting it or being dropped. I'm not bed ridden. I actually carry my pistol, to actual places other than a range.

"Any firearm can fire if dropped." Is not a free pass. It's BS. My 1911 and Glock will not fire if dropped or hit.

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Agreed, my carry gun is on me all the time, be it sitting on my couch, mowing the lawn, cleaning gutters, hammering shingles, etc etc.

Could it manage to slide from my iwb holster? Well, I do my best to make sure it doesnt, but it certainly could be possible. I'd prefer a gun that won't endanger me, or more improtantly my kid, should that happen.

And, seriously, how many times does the difference is safety between a barrel up Sig discharge and a barrel down S70 1911 be described, THEY ARE NOT THE SAME THING.

But hey, I like my air bags, seatbelt and childs car seat to work properly too. Guess I'm just not as manly as many posters out here.

Can guns discharge with dropped? Plenty were falling out of holsters two years ago, we were posting threads and discussing the manual of arms for going to the rest room and not shooting the floor or toilet.

Those weren't all the same make either, but they all passed the NIJ testing. There's the reality - drop your gun and it goes off.

Stop being in denial about it. Just because someone's pet brand seems to have a good reputation doesn't mean their won't be a video out tomorrow showing it can be - from a higher distance or angle yet to be discovered.

We do go to some effort to remain ignorant about it precisely because we exercise care to not drop the gun - which prevents negligent discharges, and also learning what it might take.

The larger implications? Well, like the German who wrote they never protested when they came for the gypsies, Catholics, and communists, remember this when they come after your gun. Proper safety testing just took a huge hit in credibility and what will happen is that costs to test guns will escalate, development will take longer, and we will pay more money to ensure that a gun we weren't supposed to drop won't go off at some infintestimally new angle yet discovered.

Simply insisting no gun should ever go off is being blind to the fact that humans make them, and therefore we will have imperfection, just as much as humans handling them will drop them. And don't forget, those Colt SAA's are always carried hammer down on an empty chamber. We've been dealing with drop safety since some of the first guns were made. The issue remains after 150 years. It's not going away, and there is no guarantee any gun will ever be perfectly drop safe.

I have to agree with the others who suggest that a potential discharge that can be caused by a blow to the back of the slide is unacceptable in a modern service pistol. It does come down to the fact that we DON'T live in a sterile, static world where everything is always under control, we have lots of room to maneuver and always perfectly judge distances to objects. Fact is any pistol I've ever carried in a holster has at some point been run into a door jam, a counter top, my elbow (yeah, yeah...), a box, a tree, or some other hard object capable of transferring a significant amount of force to the firearm.

And yes, there are always some risks with handling loaded firearms. This doesn't mean those risks can't be mitigated. All of those old military rifles with two-stage triggers, or generally long-travel triggers? Those designs are intended to prevent the rifle from firing unintentionally when being used as a pike, a club or being handled roughly. S&W developed a hammer block safety for their DA revolvers after 1 sailor was killed by a discharge from a dropped Victory -model during WWII. (I'm also going to go out on a limb here and suggest there were far more Victories and M&P in circulation than there are SIG P320s and Caniks, getting handled, dropped and abused, leading up to that one incident.)

Given all of that, I see no reason to excuse any modern manufacture for being unable to provide a pistol that WON'T fire from a 4-foot drop, or a hit to the back of the slide.

there is no guarantee any gun will ever be perfectly drop safe

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I suspect that is why I cannot remember reading any owners manual that did not include a statement that any gun might fire if dropped or something very close to that.

Every time I break something. I'm going to tell my wife I "voluntarily upgraded it."

"Voluntary upgrade notices are currently being distributed by electronic courier notes composed by our administrative assistants. Logistics will be handled by a primary air courier at a zero sum cost to the initial consumer and any temporal anomaly is to be considered routine."

See, I can use legalize too. "Our guns are broke. Our secretaries will send an email with a shipping number. Expect delays."

The fact is no modern handgun should fire when dropped. If you willfully and knowingly carry one of these weapons, and they haven't been voluntarily upgraded, the fault is with you if it discharges and shoots someone. That's the real difference between a "voluntary upgrade" and a recall.

A recall, it's on Sig. A "voluntary upgrade," is a "we told you so, you pay your own court fees/ go to jail."