Mossberg Shockwave

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The Shockwave remind me of the old TV series Wanted Dead or Alive with Steve McQueen, with a shotgun and not a rifle. I know the series had the rifle.
 
I saw one of these in action at the range recently. Being passed around between some guys. It looked fun, but not terribly effective the way they were shooting it.

I think if you want one, seriously consider why before you buy it. I think they could be a lot of fun at an outdoor impromptu range. There's potential merit with them as an emergency HD weapon (providing you really practice with it); hidden away somewhere that's fairly easily accessible. But outside, I think one of these would be pretty useless. So if you can figure out the why, and it actually fits when looked at objectively rather than subjectively, get one. If not, resist the cool factor and find something more appropriate.
 
Sam1911 said:
Pros:
1) It is easy to store, though not as easy as a handgun.
2) Concealment well, no, that's a federal felony.
3) ?
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3) You can bring it out from behind the cash register relatively quickly and you don't have a long barrel with a long sweep that you have to swing to target.
 
If1HitU said: The Shockwave remind me of the old TV series Wanted Dead or Alive with Steve McQueen, [but] with a shotgun and not a rifle.

I remember the gimmick guns of the late 1950s TV Westerns. In Wanted Dead or Alive Josh Randall (Steve McQueen) had the mare's leg sawed-off Winchester 1892 lever action. Paladin (Richard Boone in Have Gun Will Travel) had a Remington derringer behind his belt buckle. The gambler in Yancy Derringer (played by Jock Mahoney) carried up to three four-barrel Sharps derringers in his hat, up his sleeve, etc.

In The Rebel Johnny Yuma played by Nick Adams carried his dead dad's double barrel sawed-off shotgun. As I recall, it had rabbit ear hammers, was 10ga, and had a wide loop of buttstock behind the handgrip pierced for a carrying strap. For a late 1950s, early 1960s TV prop it was cool. Reminds me of (James Caan) Misssissippi's gun in El Dorado. (Historically Confederate cavalry sometimes used percussion double barrels with full buttstock and 14" barrels loaded with three buckshoy and a .69" punkin ball.)

Yep, the Mossberg Shockwave reminds me too of Hollywood Wild West gimmick weapons. But. uh, what does that imply?
 
I just thought I'd pass along that the Shockwave (as well as any Mossberg 590, 500 or Maverick 88) is made 100% reliable with Aguila mini shells with the OPSol mini-clip. My Mossberg 500 would choke on these shells to no end until I installed the adapter ($15 on Amazon), which takes all of 30 seconds.

The buckshot load that consists of seven #4 buckshot mixed with four #1 buckshot will still give you 1250 FPS from that 5/8 ounce load while boosting the capacity from your typical 5 shells to 9 shells. The recoils is only slightly more than a light field load.

I've been fairly impressed by these stubby shells, though the 7/8 ounce slugs are a little longer in length (due to the slug protruding slightly from the shell) and reduce the capacity to 8. I also found most tumbled from my 500, though at defensive down-the-hallway distances, I suppose it wouldn't matter much if at all.

If I end up purchasing a Shockwave, that's the route I'd go.
 
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Snowdog said:
I just thought I'd pass along that the Shockwave (as well as any Mossberg 590, 500 or Maverick 88) is made 100% reliable with Aguila mini shells with the OPSol mini-clip. My Mossberg 500 would choke on these shells to no end until I installed the adapter ($15 on Amazon), which takes all of 30 seconds.

The buckshot load that consists of seven #4 buckshot mixed with four #1 buckshot will still give you 1250 FPS from that 5/8 ounce load while boosting the capacity from your typical 5 shells to 9 shells. The recoils is only slightly more than a light field load.

I've been fairly impressed by these stubby shells, though the slugs are a little longer in length (due to the slug protruding slightly from the shell) and reduce the capacity to 8. I also found most tumbled from my 500, though at defensive across-the-hallway distances, I suppose it wouldn't matter much if at all.

If I end up purchasing a Shockwave, that's the route I'd go.
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The problem is finding the mini shells in stock anywhere.

I have heard from a couple of different sources that Aguila is supposed to be ramping up their production.

Joe
 
Joezilla said:
The problem is finding the mini shells in stock anywhere.
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I used AmmoSeek to purchase what I have now. Outdoorslimited.com still has slugs available (15.99 / box of 20) though the buckshot seems to be hard to find. AmmoFast has them for $21.99 / 20, but that's a bit on the steep side.

If Aguila does ramp up production, I suspect the prices will adjust accordingly.
 
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Sam1911 said:
I wouldn't argue though it seems to me that neither police nor military forces who use shotguns tend to issue many with shorter than 18" barrels. (Some do, but probably 1% or fewer.)

Possibly that's due to capacity issues from a shorter mag tube, but possibly not.
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I think for any military use, or combat use the 18-20in with a traditional stock is clearly superior. The niche of the Shockwave or TAC-14 is a civilian can carry it in their car more easily. Also while police use ARs or 18in shotguns they don't have to conceal them. A shockwave can be less visible.
 
drunkenpoacher said:
Instead of buying a road rage/riot gun, I would find a better place to live or an anger management class.
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For road rage, I meant in self defense like if someone exited their vehicle with a gun, not if I "lost my temper" and wanted to murder someone. Did you really think that's what I meant? Also while I did not mention it if someone was getting robbed 2 cars in front of me this would be a nice gun to have.

As for moving, should I also move where I don't need to conceal carry as well? I think it's neat, if I need it, it's the best gun to have generally, so I'm going to get one. Besides, as I said people at the range will beg to shoot it!
 
A shockwave can be less visible.
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Just be careful with that "less visible" thing. As noted, concealing that gun MAKES IT an NFA Firearm. Don't do that.


An odd thought: While I don't think the ATF ever takes a state's specific (and unusual) laws into account when making such a determination, here in PA a loaded gun is considered concealed if it is in your motor vehicle. While it's a probably rare problem, if you're open carrying -- which is legal here without the LCTF license -- you can't get in your car with your loaded gun. That's concealed carrying and requires the LCTF. I don't THINK that'd actually bite someone federally, but I'm not completely sure. I don't think I'd try it here.
 
I meant in self defense like if someone exited their vehicle with a gun
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My point about that was such a firearm is a poor fighting tool, especially in a vehicle where it will be even harder to get the necessary hands on it and posture to try to shoot it well. It's one of those things that seems like a good idea, but isn't.
 
WrongHanded said:
I saw one of these in action at the range recently. Being passed around between some guys. It looked fun, but not terribly effective the way they were shooting it.

I think if you want one, seriously consider why before you buy it. I think they could be a lot of fun at an outdoor impromptu range. There's potential merit with them as an emergency HD weapon (providing you really practice with it); hidden away somewhere that's fairly easily accessible. But outside, I think one of these would be pretty useless. So if you can figure out the why, and it actually fits when looked at objectively rather than subjectively, get one. If not, resist the cool factor and find something more appropriate.
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I agree with this the most.

A shotgun still HAS to be aimed. Not being able to shoulder it will make it about the worst firearm to shoot accurately.

I think this is a good gun show item to shop for. Used one will most likely only had a few boxes of shells though it before the novelty wore off and the owner realized how poor of choice it really is.
 
I bought one, thought it was the coolest thing I saw. Was enamored with it for a while, then decided I didn't want it and sold it.
 
Kevinq6 said:
For road rage, I meant in self defense like if someone exited their vehicle with a gun, not if I "lost my temper" and wanted to murder someone. Did you really think that's what I meant? Also while I did not mention it if someone was getting robbed 2 cars in front of me this would be a nice gun to have.

As for moving, should I also move where I don't need to conceal carry as well? I think it's neat, if I need it, it's the best gun to have generally, so I'm going to get one. Besides, as I said people at the range will beg to shoot it!
Click to expand...
I hope you get one, have a lot of fun with it and feel better having it in your car.

For a self defense weapon, I consider it one notch above a hand grenade
 
Kevinq6 said:
I think for any military use, or combat use the 18-20in with a traditional stock is clearly superior. The niche of the Shockwave or TAC-14 is a civilian can carry it in their car more easily. Also while police use ARs or 18in shotguns they don't have to conceal them. A shockwave can be less visible.
Click to expand...

There's no compelling reason for a full stocked fighting shotgun to be as long as a battle rifle.

IMO, 18-20" fighting shotguns would be unusual at this point if not for the NFA.

That length gives you little more than 1-2 rounds extra capacity at the expense of a huge loss in handiness.
 
Sam1911 said:
My point about that was such a firearm is a poor fighting tool, especially in a vehicle where it will be even harder to get the necessary hands on it and posture to try to shoot it well. It's one of those things that seems like a good idea, but isn't.
Click to expand...
 
The size is deceiving in the pictures. They look short and handy. Next to a 20" barreled 500 with a standard pistol grip they're about the same overall length. Except you sacrifice shell capacity on the shockwave. Although they do have a cool factor. Pretty much just a fun gun. The standard pistol grip feels more comfortable to hold in my opinion. In NYS I have to put the shockwave on my pistol permit, and a regular 500 with a pistol grip doesn't so for me its not worth it.
 
The grip shapes are a pretty interesting facet of design, on their own.

Consider this:
If you've got a butt-stock tucked into your shoulder, that's what absorbs recoil. If not, your hands, wrists, and arms do.

The most comfortable and strong way to deal with recoil (or any stress) is with your wrist straight, in relation to your forearm. Which is why you don't punch something with your thumb leading. The reason a traditional rifle or shotgun stock's grip is comfortable is that you aren't either supporting or managing recoil with your strong hand. Just bringing it along side to operate the trigger.

Mossberg traditionally sold their PGO guns with true pistol-style grips. Vertical grips. But their product literature instructed you to not fire the weapon with the gun up in front of your line of sight, but down at the hip (more or less). Dropping it down to your hip means you have to roll your strong hand UP sharply to hang onto the grip, putting you in an uncomfortable position to handle recoil. (The smartest way to use it is to tuck the grip in along side your chest, like firing a pistol "from retention." That way your wrist stays straight but your body can help absorb the recoil and steady and index the gun.)

The Shockwave "bird's head" style grip is shaped like the grip of a traditionally stocked full butt gun. But holding it up like a traditional shotgun means rolling your wrist sharply DOWN to hang onto that grip, support the gun, and absorb recoil. The only real way to fire that weapon in a stance that makes ergonomic sense is to drop it down to your hip so your hand addresses the gun from the top, with a straight wrist.
The least effectively accurate way to fire that gun.

Of course, this is the company that came up with the "D" handle "chainsaw" style forearm, so they really do not care whether you could use this well or not. If it gets you to BUY, then the gun is completely effective, from their point of view.
 
Just saw on an email today that Remington has released their TAC 14 in 20 gauge. Don't know when it will be available to the public though.

Mossberg will probably have their model available soon also, but no announcement.

Joe
 
I like mine, and have it located in my truck where it's easily accessible.

I've had no trouble shooting it accurately with 2 3/4" #4 buck.
 
"Wish they made it in 20 gauge also"
+1
I would purchase one in 20ga in a heart beat. Not interested in the 12ga.

Most shooting is done for fun. I would buy it for that reason alone, but I also think it has some practical uses as well.
 
Sam1911 said:
Something we often struggle with is how exactly to place a quantification on statements of effectiveness when we discuss self-defense arms.

In that light, what does "not completely useless" mean?

It certainly does not mean, "as easy to store, transport, carry, draw, aim, get hits with, cycle, transition between targets, and fire follow-up shots with as a handgun."
It certainly does not mean, "as easy to aim, get hits with, cycle, and transition between targets, and fire follow up shots with as a full-stocked shotgun."

So it means something close to what is implied by the actual words in that phrase, not the more sarcastic overtone possibly intended: This firearm is not completely useless. Could be effective. Might be effective. Better than nothing. But admittedly and clearly far worse than other common choices.

(It might be worth pointing out that few people ever try to claim that a firearm of this sort is completely without any value as a defensive tool whatsoever. I.e.: completely worthless. Relatively worthless might be a reasonable assessment, though.)

So taken as given that the firearm has some value in the role, but huge detriments when compared to other common and known-effective choices, what are the positive factors it brings to the table that we must believe offset the poor aiming and handling, bulk, weight, legal questions/confusion which might come up with law-enforcement, etc.?

Pros:
1) It is easy to store, though not as easy as a handgun.
2) Concealment well, no, that's a federal felony.
3) ?

I really struggle to come up with plausible reasons to use one for serious purposes in a self-defense role.

Self-defense, by definition, is the one shot of your life you actually MUST make count. It is the moment when you must be as effective as humanly possible at delivering your bullet or shot. It is not the time to play with a "fun" or "cool" gun -- something you own for range time giggles.

These things must fall into a "relatively useless" category when evaluated for self-defense roles. Sort of like how a 4-wheeler is a lot of fun and has some merits for casual uses, but it "relatively useless" for serious transportation duties.
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Relative is a loose term.

the firearm works/shoots and can hit a target. Of course a longer or full size shotgun will work better overall.

some people just have a bias or no experience with some of these type of firearms. Maybe useless for some who don't have the training or inclination to use it; same as if you've never ridden a motorcycle then its useless to you. What use is a sportbike (basically a race bike with lights) to ride on the street? Yet millions of people do it everyday.
 
some people just have a bias or no experience with some of these type of firearms.
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That's absolutely true and it tends to give them an enormous sense of false capability with such guns.


We have what may be the most scientific study of these guns and their use, anywhere, in the form of our late Moderator Dave McCracken's "PGO Challenge", captured in this long thread: https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/pg-only-shotguns-and-hip-shooting-101.44465/

But few people really like to take the time to sit down and read it, let alone do the legwork necessary to take up that challenge.

Maybe useless for some who don't have the training or inclination to use it
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"Inclination" is a funny word. Though perhaps apt. There certainly are folks who are convinced that a PGO shotgun is not just a possible self-defense tool, but a GOOD one. If they are so inclined, words won't change their minds (and what's the point of trying?). Some (raising my own hand here) do put in the effort and, with enough practice and trial, manage to break down their own gut-level inclination.

same as if you've never ridden a motorcycle then its useless to you. What use is a sportbike (basically a race bike with lights) to ride on the street? Yet millions of people do it everyday.
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Well, let's say instead of a motorcycle it's like a Reliant Robin. Sure, it's only got three wheels and it will tip over and flop on its side if driven without great caution, but lots of people (in Britain) did actually use them for daily transportation. And, if the conditions are nice and you go slowly and take a fair bit of care about your driving, you can get where you're going in one.

Now, contemplate rushing your wife or child to the hospital in an emergency. Do you reach for the keys to the Robin and attempt that life or death race, or do you go for something that gives you all the stability and lets you work to the edges of your own capabilities?

The problem is right there, when one contemplates the ultimate purpose -- realizing that a gun you use for self-defense isn't a folly or plaything. And it also isn't the every-day casual use item that sometimes is a bit finicky to operate but usually gets the job done ok. It's a last-ditch tool you grab to save your life or that of a loved one under the worst possible conditions. It MUST work and you must be able to make the best shot of your life with it under those worst-case conditions. While nobody facing down a home intruder or other violent criminal has time to think, "Man, this guns looks totally kwel -- I bet I look like the Terminator right now!!!" they might have just enough time left to ask, "Oh no, how did I MISS?"
 
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