Liar! Liar, Yer' chronys on fire!

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H&R Glock

H&R Glock

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Here I am little me with a new AR in 5.56/223 and a lot of re-loading equipment. I purchased a can of Federal 223 ammo just to obtain some new brass to fiddle with. Bought 3 kinds of powder too.
The Federal ammo tosses the brass about 20 feet away.
I have loaded some test ammo and chronographed it today to settle my doubts. My hand loads were tossing the brass about 5 feet and that gave me pause to drag out the electronics and do a little testing.
Ramshot TAC 22 gr. 55 gr.FMJ surplus pulled bullet average 2417 fps
Ramshot TAC 22.5gr ( " ) average 2487 fps
Ramshot TAC 23.0 gr 55gr ( " ) average 2559 fps
IMR 4198 19.0 gr Hornady 55gr soft point average 2621 fps
IMR 4198 19.0gr ( " 55gr. FMJ) average 2606 fps
All my reloading books are calling for 2850 to 3000 fps for similar loads.
Is this data consistent with any of yours???????
 
Big difference in velocity in different barrel lengths. 16 to 20" barrels. However I do note that my chrono data with some powders and manual data isn't realistic. That's why I really like H335 powder and Hodgdon's data. H335 powder gets me nearly or the same velocity as Hodgdon's manual.
 
Did you run the factory ammunition over the chronograph? This can "calibrate" your rifle as to being "fast" or "slow".

I have two AR-15's in A2 configuration with 20" barrels. One, a Colt Match Target gets about the same velocity as the Sierra Bullets manual using the same bullet and powder charge. Sierra happens to use a Colt Match Target for their testing. At least the Sierra manual that I have.

The second A2, a Compass Lake service rifle match rifle gets about 200 fps faster velocity than the Sierra manual or my Colt using the same bullet and powder charge.

Bottom line is that even similarly equipped rifles can get different velocity numbers with the same ammunition.
 
Your barrel length vs reloading manual test barrel length?
In a 9mm pistol with a midrange load at about 1050 I lose about 30-50fps per "
In a rifle loss would be higher.
Even with the same barrel length as used in the manual your vels may be higher or lower than what they show all guns/barrels are different.
If they tested with a 20 or 22" barrel and yours is say 16" 50fps per " could be 200-300fps loss.
Test barrel used for .223 in Lyman 50 was 24" for universal receiver 20" for Colt AR15
 
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You can't compare your data shot from a 16"? barrel to the data tested from a 20" to 24" barrel.

Even if you do use the same length barrel they are testing in a lab with a pressure barrel and you are shooting a gun in a none controlled environment. Very rare will you match the velocities posted from load data sources, it's a well known fact.
 
Velocities are what I'd expect from a 16.5" bbl with powder charges you're using.
When I used TAC (1lb, 8+yrs ago), I used 25.0
When I last used IMR4198 (20yrs ago), I used 21.0-21.6 (55gr bullets).

I suspect the factory ammo is running 2,800-3,000fps from your barrel. You're loads are light.
 
drunkenpoacher said:
What is your barrel length compared to the test barrels?
Click to expand...

Hornady used a 26" barrel to get their numbers. With a 600fps difference for the tac and 500fps for the imr4198. If it's all about barrel length, the then that would be about 50-60 fps/inch.

What about twist rate?

I like to see OP Chrono the factory ammo.
 
also keep in mind that most books list .223 REM loads and pressure, and your AR is capable of firing 5.56 loads (higher pressure). Western Powders is nice in this aspect as they list load data for TAC in 5.56mm.
 
total recoil wrote:
Is this data consistent with any of yours???????
Click to expand...

More or less.

Note that Lyman #49 (which uses either a 24 inch barrel on a Universal Receiver or 20 inch barrel in an AR-15), shows a velocity of 2,645 fps for 19.0 grains of IMR-4198 with a 55 grain bullet, so it looks to me like you're right there.

Recently, I started working up a load using IMR-4198 and a 55 grain FMJ bullet of unknown manufacture that I bought in bulk. Having started around 17.5 grain, I am at 19.8 grains of IMR-4198 under a 55gr FMJ bullet and the chronograph is averaging around 2,750 fps out of my son's S&W M&P-15 and this, too, is consistent with what Lyman #49 is reporting.
 
The rifle is a Del-Ton Echo 316. 1:9 twist, 16" barrel.
Unfortunately, in my haste to load up and get to the gun club, I forgot to bring along my H335 loads and The Federal LC17 factory rounds. I will however take them next time. I feel my H335 loads of 24.3 grains is functioning in the same low velocity way with the same bullets.
I always start out with what the books say to load and slowly work up. Only in this case I think I will jump to 24 grains of TAC to approach the 2900 fps level.
The only thing I hate about this riflle is the awful trigger pull of about 12 pounds through 6" of gritty travel.
Now I wish someone would have told me to get small base dies to start with! :( groan! I found out about this because I bought a case gauge and it presented a new mystery to me!!! THanks for your fine information. There oughtta' be a disclaimer in these reload manuals saying "velocities you see in these pages are bigger than they actually are."
 
The load manuals assume a 24" barrel. If you have a 16" barrel then 200-250 fps would be expected. Around 25-50 fps difference between 2 different guns with the same barrel length is normal and I've seen examples closer to 150 fps. If YOUR barrel just happens to be a "slow" barrel, combined with being shorter than the one used to test ammo then as much as 300 fps wouldn't be unheard of.
 
total recoil said:
There oughtta' be a disclaimer in these reload manuals saying "velocities you see in these pages are bigger than they actually are."
Click to expand...
There usually is something buried in there at the begging to that effect, or atleast "we used this, your using that, numbers wont match.....usually" I remember using the expected velocity data to do drop tables back in highschool for my 7mm, and .223 (both with 24" barrels).
My drops were nearly perfect!.....inside of 300yds. I couldnt shoot well enough to tell much of a difference beyond that, but as far as i could tell i was getting the velocity (and BC) i was expecting.

Chrono'd those same loads a few years ago when i finally got my first Chronograph, and I found i was over 200fps slow with the same load and barrel length reported in one gun, and about 100 the other another.
 
Yes, I was at the range today!!!
The factory Lake City 17' Federal rounds averaged 3033 FPS over 5 rounds.
The Ramshot TAC 24.0 grains averaged 2665 over 5 rounds
The H335 24.3 grain loads averaged 2844 over 5 rounds.

I am convinced that the TAC and H335 POWDERS are right up my alley as they meter like butter. IMR4198 seems to have more energy, but is harder to deal with in the powder measure. No sweat! We will use it in many ways.
Bullets of the 55 grain family all seem to slide up the chute with the same alacrity. All seem to pierce the paper targets with no problem. I will deal with accuracy next, but with a cheapie 4x scope on it I can't really give you 50 yard accuracy reports. Accuracy at 50 yards id mind chilling if one can get past the lousy trigger on this machine.
Again. THANK YOU for your very accurate information on this. You have been down the same road as me long before. I am learning fast as it just cost me another $40 for new dies!
Yes! the part about the rear view mirror and manuals is close to being a rule!!!! :)
 
and to DUDEDOG! what kind of animal do you have in the picture?? Puppy?
GOOSE! You are right on in your assessment of my velocity! THanks both of you for the info!
 
I had similar concerns when I began loading for my son's AR. The Fed. factory ammo seemed to have a bit more recoil, threw the brass further and even sounded different when firing.
Sure enough, MV was over 300fps vs. my starting load of 23.5gr of Varget. The best load I found for his rifle (18in. 1.8. Barrel) was still 120ft. Below the factory stuff. Fed. just loads them short and fast. Don't concern yourself with velocity numbers. Find a load your rifle likes and then check its velocity.
 
55gr Hornady FMJ-BT, 23.5gr N133, 3304 fps. 24.0gr N133, 3343 fps. 24.5gr N133, 3422 fps. Out of a 26" T/C Encore. Barrel length matters.
 
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