Flat base bullets vs. Boat tail

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Bayourambler

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Through good advise here I have loaded up some 125 grain Sierra Pro Hunter bullets for my sons 308 and have been impressed. First, I did it for lower recoil and a few people here have commented about the known accuracy. Well I can say they are the most accurate rounds I have ever produced! Thanks to those who advised me of this. The lil Remington 700 sps 20" barrel will shoot them right under .5 MOA on any day ending in y, as long as you hold up your end! We've been messing around shooting steel and it is dead on up to 570 yds! Then, past that, I guess its coming down to trans-sonic and doing crazy things. My brother gave me a box of 180 grain pro hunters and I was thinking of loading them for my 300 wm. for shooting long. Is this a good idea , or is the wind going to push it around too much? It seems like everyone uses boat-tails for this reason, I have limited experience on this. The flat base bullet seems very forgiving when reloading.
 
You kinda have to try them, Bayourambler. For mule deer, I like 165 gr. Hornady BTSPs in my old Ruger 77, 30-06, but we tried everything we could think of to make my wife's old Ruger 77, 7mm-08 shoot 139 gr. Hornady BTSPs or 140 gr. Sierra SBTs. I'm talking 3-4 inch groups at 100 yards with either BT bullet bad.
We finally determined her Ruger 77 just doesn't like BTs when we ran out of them and still had five charged cases without bullets. When that happened, I just reached up on the shelf and grabbed a box of Hornady 139 gr. SPs, and stuck them in the remaining charged cases. I could hardly believe the difference - those 5 plain based bullets went into about an inch and a quarter and one hundred yards. We messed around with the seating depth and the powder charge after that, and arrived at a load that produces slightly less than a 3-shot MOA group at 100 yards. Not a precision target rifle by any means, but plenty good for deer hunting - which opens tomorrow BTW! Hooray!
Since then (back in the '80s) my wife, and now our daughter and grandson have taken a lot of mule deer with that Ruger rifle and those 139 gr. Hornady SPs. But I've taken a lot of mule deer with my Ruger rifle and Hornady SPBTs too. So, in my experience, some rifles like BTs, some don't.:)
 
Generally speaking flat based bullets are as accurate as boat tail bullets, and often more so, at close to moderate ranges. But the difference usually isn't great. Usually we're talking about the difference between a gun shooting 1 MOA vs one shooting 1.2 MOA. But at ranges beyond 200-300 yards you are better off with high BC bullets and that means boat tails.

It isn't necessarily because of flatter trajectory, but greater impact speeds. I once ran the numbers comparing a very poor BC 180 gr bullet fired from a 300 WM @ 3000 fps to one of the best BC 180 gr bullets fired from a 30-06 @ 2800 fps. At 100 yards the 30-06 was moving faster and hitting with more energy. At about 200 yards a 308 firing the high BC bullet was beating 300 WM with a poor BC bullet. As ranges got longer the 30-06 and 308 widened the gap in impact speeds and energy. But it wasn't until about 400 yards that the 30-06 and 308 started shooting flatter. I'd have to run the numbers through a ballistics program, but it is also safe to say they will be pushed around by the wind more.

I haven't run the numbers on that particular bullet and I doubt the difference would be that dramatic. But it is safe to say that a 30-06 or even 308 with high BC bullets would at some point surpass your 300 WM shooting that bullet. I guess it depends on your definition of "shooting long". At 300 yards or so they would work, but your sons 308 would do the same thing shooting a high BC bullet with 1/2 the recoil beyond about 300 yards.

I don't know which boat tail bullets you've been using, but you might want to try another bullet. It may be that your rifle just doesn't like the particular bullet you tried. I've had great luck with the Hornady ELD-X bullets. I shoot 178's in my 308 and got excellent results with the 200 gr bullets in 300 WSM. They also make 212 and 220 gr bullets that should work very well in your 300 WM.
 
Generally speaking flat based bullets are as accurate as boat tail bullets, and often more so, at close to moderate ranges. But the difference usually isn't great. Usually we're talking about the difference between a gun shooting 1 MOA vs one shooting 1.2 MOA. But at ranges beyond 200-300 yards you are better off with high BC bullets and that means boat tails.

It isn't necessarily because of flatter trajectory, but greater impact speeds. I once ran the numbers comparing a very poor BC 180 gr bullet fired from a 300 WM @ 3000 fps to one of the best BC 180 gr bullets fired from a 30-06 @ 2800 fps. At 100 yards the 30-06 was moving faster and hitting with more energy. At about 200 yards a 308 firing the high BC bullet was beating 300 WM with a poor BC bullet. As ranges got longer the 30-06 and 308 widened the gap in impact speeds and energy. But it wasn't until about 400 yards that the 30-06 and 308 started shooting flatter. I'd have to run the numbers through a ballistics program, but it is also safe to say they will be pushed around by the wind more.

I haven't run the numbers on that particular bullet and I doubt the difference would be that dramatic. But it is safe to say that a 30-06 or even 308 with high BC bullets would at some point surpass your 300 WM shooting that bullet. I guess it depends on your definition of "shooting long". At 300 yards or so they would work, but your sons 308 would do the same thing shooting a high BC bullet with 1/2 the recoil beyond about 300 yards.

I don't know which boat tail bullets you've been using, but you might want to try another bullet. It may be that your rifle just doesn't like the particular bullet you tried. I've had great luck with the Hornady ELD-X bullets. I shoot 178's in my 308 and got excellent results with the 200 gr bullets in 300 WSM. They also make 212 and 220 gr bullets that should work very well in your 300 WM.
Yes , I have tried the Eldx bullets . 178’s shoot real well in the 308, not so much in my 06 or 300 wm. Tried 212 grain in the 300 and shoots a solid .8 to 1” group at 100 with the exception of the 1 out of 6 flyer 2-3” low. I can’t figure this one out. The 300 wm shoots 190 matchkings good with no surprises. I’ll have to try these 180 pro hunters or some 180/200 gamekings. I might have to steal the 308 from him now and then because it’s the best shooting rifle I’ve owned to this point. Just a lil disappointing this 308 I paid $250 for will put my $2,300 Sendero setup to shame...
 
I shot some 125gr SMKs today out of my 300WSM. It was a good laugh. 8.5 MOA to reach 600 yards from a 100 yard zero. I don't know how that helps you, just thought I'd share.
 
I shot some 125gr SMKs today out of my 300WSM. It was a good laugh. 8.5 MOA to reach 600 yards from a 100 yard zero. I don't know how that helps you, just thought I'd share.
What kind of velocity do you get out of that? I shot those 212 Eldx out of my 300 yesterday , the Moa up from 100 yard zero was 7.25 at 500 and 15 up at 790 yds. Good luck figuring what ballistic chart to use with that! Lol.
 
I didn't run it over the magnetospeed but based on elevation adjustments, seems about 3400fps. Though we did have a fairly significant downward shooting angle, so probably less.
 
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Through good advise here I have loaded up some 125 grain Sierra Pro Hunter bullets for my sons 308 and have been impressed. First, I did it for lower recoil and a few people here have commented about the known accuracy. Well I can say they are the most accurate rounds I have ever produced! Thanks to those who advised me of this. The lil Remington 700 sps 20" barrel will shoot them right under .5 MOA on any day ending in y, as long as you hold up your end! We've been messing around shooting steel and it is dead on up to 570 yds! Then, past that, I guess its coming down to trans-sonic and doing crazy things. My brother gave me a box of 180 grain pro hunters and I was thinking of loading them for my 300 wm. for shooting long. Is this a good idea , or is the wind going to push it around too much? It seems like everyone uses boat-tails for this reason, I have limited experience on this. The flat base bullet seems very forgiving when reloading.
Are your long range targets breathing? Nosler ab and ablr, and sgk, start with the gameking. Test them at 300, if your gun likes the ablr but you want something more splosive at long range, bergers but double check your twist rate. If you're not going for game bullets, just keep running the smks.
 
Have your sendero checked out by a Smith , it may not be your bullets causing you problems . Also could be a kicking problem. Don't know , just saying.
 
Generally speaking flat based bullets are as accurate as boat tail bullets, and often more so, at close to moderate ranges. But the difference usually isn't great. Usually we're talking about the difference between a gun shooting 1 MOA vs one shooting 1.2 MOA. But at ranges beyond 200-300 yards you are better off with high BC bullets and that means boat tails.

It isn't necessarily because of flatter trajectory, but greater impact speeds. I once ran the numbers comparing a very poor BC 180 gr bullet fired from a 300 WM @ 3000 fps to one of the best BC 180 gr bullets fired from a 30-06 @ 2800 fps. At 100 yards the 30-06 was moving faster and hitting with more energy. At about 200 yards a 308 firing the high BC bullet was beating 300 WM with a poor BC bullet. As ranges got longer the 30-06 and 308 widened the gap in impact speeds and energy. But it wasn't until about 400 yards that the 30-06 and 308 started shooting flatter. I'd have to run the numbers through a ballistics program, but it is also safe to say they will be pushed around by the wind more.

I haven't run the numbers on that particular bullet and I doubt the difference would be that dramatic. But it is safe to say that a 30-06 or even 308 with high BC bullets would at some point surpass your 300 WM shooting that bullet. I guess it depends on your definition of "shooting long". At 300 yards or so they would work, but your sons 308 would do the same thing shooting a high BC bullet with 1/2 the recoil beyond about 300 yards.

I don't know which boat tail bullets you've been using, but you might want to try another bullet. It may be that your rifle just doesn't like the particular bullet you tried. I've had great luck with the Hornady ELD-X bullets. I shoot 178's in my 308 and got excellent results with the 200 gr bullets in 300 WSM. They also make 212 and 220 gr bullets that should work very well in your 300 WM.
Yes you are right, a poor BC bullet out of a 300wm is not an option, just as soon shoot a 308 with a good BC if a 300-400 target presents itself.. Thanks. I will just have to try some 200 gamekings.
 
An older gentleman who passed on last year was one of the best that I have known when it comes to tweaking a gun to shoot well. He swore up and down that a flat based bullet was more accurate under 300 yards than most boattails. I say most boattails. There will always be a fly in the ointment. After seeing some of his groups I can't deny his hypothesis. The old man could shoot.
 
An older gentleman who passed on last year was one of the best that I have known when it comes to tweaking a gun to shoot well. He swore up and down that a flat based bullet was more accurate under 300 yards than most boattails. I say most boattails. There will always be a fly in the ointment. After seeing some of his groups I can't deny his hypothesis. The old man could shoot.
I tell you what, these lil 125 pro hunters are very predictable , they held a 4 shot group at 565 yds last week 2.75" out of a bone stock rifle! No complaints here. I haven't shot them in much wind, now that's probably a different story.
 
I tell you what, these lil 125 pro hunters are very predictable , they held a 4 shot group at 565 yds last week 2.75" out of a bone stock rifle! No complaints here. I haven't shot them in much wind, now that's probably a different story.
Dude, if I kill a buck like the one in your picture you will have to come and get me out of the drunk tank, and I don't drink.

I used the Speer HotCors for years and killed a truck load of game with them. Had a few 120gr for 6.5 that I loaded in my Creedmoor and the Ruger American shot them really well. I wanted to try them in my Bergara but Speer dropped the 120gr HotCor. They still make a 120 but it is cup and core. Probably still work well out of the CM but I am still Bummed.

The Sierras are next in line to get tested.
 
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An older gentleman who passed on last year was one of the best that I have known when it comes to tweaking a gun to shoot well. He swore up and down that a flat based bullet was more accurate under 300 yards than most boattails. I say most boattails. There will always be a fly in the ointment. After seeing some of his groups I can't deny his hypothesis. The old man could shoot.
I tell you what, these lil 125 pro hunters are very predictable , they held a 4 shot group at 565 yds last week 2.75" out of a bone stock rifle! No complaints here. I haven't shot them in much wind, now that's probably a different story.
I run the prohunters out to 500 yds easily with the .243 (Sierra lists best b.c. at .373 but testing says they're a wee bit conservative). For the .300wm, out to a healthy 700 ish you might play with these on the calculator....
https://www.sierrabullets.com/store/product.cfm/sn/2150/308-dia-180-gr-SPT
 
I have a box of those, a BC of .415 aint that bad. Right?
Personally, (again iterations about Sierras bcs being conservative) for the intended applications, I'd use the dickens outta them, test em at 100 yds for development, and then run em out to 700 on a calm day, then again on a windy day. And you'll be able to land em in the pie plate all year.
 
An older gentleman who passed on last year was one of the best that I have known when it comes to tweaking a gun to shoot well. He swore up and down that a flat based bullet was more accurate under 300 yards than most boattails. I say most boattails. There will always be a fly in the ointment. After seeing some of his groups I can't deny his hypothesis. The old man could shoot.

After 39 years of shooting I've pretty much come to the same conclusion. For under 300 yards a flat base bullet has always shot better for me. I'm sure there's an exception somewhere but I have yet to find it.
 
You can push a 125 grain bullet very fast in the 308 or in a 30-06. For whatever reason, the 130 grain bullet in the 270 Win is considered a standard for lethality, but the same weight of bullet, or the 125 grain bullet, is not in the 308 caliber. And yet, you can push them faster than the 270 Win. Given similar bullet construction the effects ought to be the same on animals.
 
You can push a 125 grain bullet very fast in the 308 or in a 30-06. For whatever reason, the 130 grain bullet in the 270 Win is considered a standard for lethality, but the same weight of bullet, or the 125 grain bullet, is not in the 308 caliber. And yet, you can push them faster than the 270 Win. Given similar bullet construction the effects ought to be the same on animals.
Many moons ago I loaded some 130 gr. cup and cores in a 30-06. During a drive I shot a buck that was running flat out and was lucky enough to hit it in the neck just behind the ears. The bullet was like bomb. The only thing holding the head on was a couple of strips of hide. Unless you get a monolithic bullet like a Barnes, a Bonded core or a Partition you might be in for a mess or a wounded deer. The cup and cores in the lighter bullets have thinner jackets and are made for varmints.
 
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