Bills to stop online ammo sales, ban hi cap mags, limit rifle buys

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Most of these bills will never get out of committee.

There is absolutely no doubt that given the opportunity some people on the hill would take absolutely every weapon and anything that looks like a weapon from the public in an instant. Anyone who says otherwise is either woefully uninformed or telling lies.

This will never happen. That there are people in politics who would attempt it isn't at question. That they would ignite a massive uprising of millions of gun owners - including over half the LEO's and military - would result in the 2A being justified.

We've turned back so many laws and regulations in the last 30 years that attempting to reimpose what we had is considered over the line. Outright confiscation or bans? Didn't work during the AWB and only fueled further buying when Congress let it expire. Frankly, the "libs" focused intent to outlaw guns has become moot - it could be done on paper, but, an unalienable right still exists despite unconstitutional impositions.

That we toe the line and work thru the courts is our way of being polite. Absent any avenue to redress that grievance we then fall back on precedent - which is our constitutional right to revolt and impose public will. It's happened more than once since 1776. Anyone who says it can't happen again is either woefully uninformed or telling lies.

Of course citing precedence in history and how we formed this country in the first place is considered outrageous heresy but the reality is that those of us who took an oath to protect and defend the Constitution against all enemies foreign or domestic understand differently.

As for the usual dumpster load of bills being introduced into Congress they do that almost annually. And we introduce bills to reverse existing infringements, too. We are much closer to National Reciprocity than ever, and removing silencers from the NFA wasn't even considered possible ten years ago. Working within the rules and laws of polite society has been successful.
 
Tirod but look at DC, MD, MA, IL, NY and CA people there let unConstitutional laws go into effect and infringe the rights of millions of Americans.

It’s much easier to not let a law get passed than to get it thrown out.

DC loses in court over and over and still keeps the same laws with minor changes. Now they’re spreading BS that conceal carry will endanger the police and make the police’s job harder. This from folks that support BLM. Ones that don’t get that those of us who legally carry are no threat to police and identify ourselves when interacting with officers for our own safety and that of the officer.

But it seems truth isn’t important anymore. Hence why politicians are working so hard to eliminate our right to carry. They saw we were winning so they’ve turned up the attacks.

To all who say that laws won’t be passed. That may be true today. But as long as bills are introduced we are at risk of one being passed. So like all enemies we should never let our guard down and never assume we’ve won as long as there is an enemy trying to defeat us.
 
..... but look at DC, MD, MA, IL, NY and CA people there let unConstitutional laws go into effect and infringe the rights of millions of Americans.

Not this divisive crud again, please. They want us to be as divisive amongst ourselves as they are to us.... Don't.


Most of CA's most restrictive laws weren't passed by voters but we're rammed thru by politicians... just like the NY UNSAFE Act and that BS new law in MA. All rammed thru with out a citizen vote.

No anti gun laws are passed because the pro 2A people 'let it happen'. It's because they were out voted or not given the chance to vote on it and its a disservice to all gun owners to portray it that way.

Those people didn't "let" the laws pass any more than you and every other pro 2A American 'let' the 94 AWB pass.


The Anti 2A politicians introduce these bills because they know this pic represent the average gun owner.

images.jpg



They use the same tactic with everything else, too. Divide and Conquer... demonize and defeat.

These types of bills will continue in large quantities, with limited success but some success none the less, until the average gun owner in America decides that a mantra of 'its an inalienable right for all' isn't enough and that United We Stand is the Answer to their Divided They Fall tactics.



We are all in this boat together. When their is a leak, it should be ALL hands on deck to fix the leak... rather than taking the divisive position that so many do, including THR, of 'Well my seat is dry, so what, they deserve it, they can move' and then start thread to complain that pro gun owners from those states moved to thier states.


Boom. I said it.
 
Places like this( IL, NY and CA) with big population centers run the state and are responsible for the type of government they have.
 
Not this divisive crud again, please. They want us to be as divisive amongst ourselves as they are to us.... Don't.


Most of CA's most restrictive laws weren't passed by voters but we're rammed thru by politicians... just like the NY UNSAFE Act and that BS new law in MA. All rammed thru with out a citizen vote.

No anti gun laws are passed because the pro 2A people 'let it happen'. It's because they were out voted or not given the chance to vote on it and its a disservice to all gun owners to portray it that way.

Those people didn't "let" the laws pass any more than you and every other pro 2A American 'let' the 94 AWB pass.


The Anti 2A politicians introduce these bills because they know this pic represent the average gun owner.

View attachment 765401



They use the same tactic with everything else, too. Divide and Conquer... demonize and defeat.

These types of bills will continue in large quantities, with limited success but some success none the less, until the average gun owner in America decides that a mantra of 'its an inalienable right for all' isn't enough and that United We Stand is the Answer to their Divided They Fall tactics.



We are all in this boat together. When their is a leak, it should be ALL hands on deck to fix the leak... rather than taking the divisive position that so many do, including THR, of 'Well my seat is dry, so what, they deserve it, they can move' and then start thread to complain that pro gun owners from those states moved to thier states.


Boom. I said it.
No we let it happen
The 2nd was also to keep the government in check and to remove a tyrannical government.
When people comply with unConstitutional laws they’re aiding and abetting the tyranny.
When they don’t remove those who enact unConstitutional laws they’re letting this crap happen.

And yes I’m guilty as I didn’t know much about how bad it was until a few years ago, since then I’ve done all I can to fight idiots like the Gov, Lt Gov and AG we have here in Va.

And yes I voted already against them and for the pro 2nd candidates as I’ll be traveling on Election Day.
 
Places like this( IL, NY and CA) with big population centers run the state and are responsible for the type of government they have.


Welcome to America

What states don't have big population centers relative to their states' overall population?
 
Welcome to America

What states don't have big population centers relative to their states' overall population?

It’s why I’m for an electoral college for all statewide offices.

Our founding fathers got it right.
And it’s crazy that the far left claims to be for minorities and yet they want to eliminate the electoral college which gives representation to small states and those of us in rural and more conservative areas.
 
No we let it happen
The 2nd was also to keep the government in check and to remove a tyrannical government.
When people comply with unConstitutional laws they’re aiding and abetting the tyranny.
When they don’t remove those who enact unConstitutional laws they’re letting this crap happen.

And yes I’m guilty as I didn’t know much about how bad it was until a few years ago, since then I’ve done all I can to fight idiots like the Gov, Lt Gov and AG we have here in Va.

And yes I voted already against them and for the pro 2nd candidates as I’ll be traveling on Election Day.


I mostly agree and what I don't is probably more on symantics.

At the voter level, 3 kids getting beat by a mob didn't let it happen, they were overwhelmed and swarmed by a majority ill intent. ETA, we could debate that they shouldn't have been where they were (move!) but, imo, this is supposed to be free USA and should all have the same basic protections at least in the 10 BOR

At legislative level, they get hit by Hurricane Harvey. Sure, we can argue about that we let global warming happen (not to start that debate) and got what we deserved but that just illustrates that the majority of pro 2A people were taking an indiffernet stance because the weather was nice above their house at he time
 
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It’s why I’m for an electoral college for all statewide offices.

Our founding fathers got it right.
And it’s crazy that the far left claims to be for minorities and yet they want to eliminate the electoral college which gives representation to small states and those of us in rural and more conservative areas.

Yep.

ETA: they think big city folk are smarter than rural folk.... but they sell it as being progressive cuz that sounds better.
 
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Sooooooo, you couldn't buy two rifles from a single dealer, but you can buy one rifle from ten separate dealers at, let's say a gunshow?
Idiocracy.

This has been a requirement with multiple handgun purchases for a long time, and yes, that's pretty much how it works. Unless the buyer decides to disclose his other purchases, there is no way for the other dealer to know. They're fully aware of this, which is why they start here with this "reasonable" measure, and then in a few years when a high profile killing involves multiple weapons purchased within a day or a few days from different vendors, they come back and say "well, we're trying, but without a national database, the other dealers couldn't know".

All of it, of course, ignores the fact that multiple purchases are very, very rarely scrutinized. Buy 100 Hi Points at once, you may be contacted. But 3 or 4 rifles? Nobody at the .gov will bat an eye. Doesn't matter, though, because their end game isn't, wasn't, and never will be about actually reducing violence.
 
Yep.

ETA: they think big city folk are smarter than rural folk.... but they sell it as being progressive cuz that sounds better.

Some of the smartest people I know have no formal education.
Some of the dumbest have multiple PhDs

Some of the biggest mouths that think they know everything have never worked a real job, never gone out and met real working people but look down on those that actually do work for a living.

The worst was the PhD student that told me NO ONE needs a big truck like my F150. When I said my truck is small, and that trades people need to move large things and need LARGER trucks they went nuts. Ranting about how big trucks were destroying the planet. They didn’t want to hear that their little bubble was built by those people needing trucks. The service people who took care of their apartments did too. They didn’t even care that costs would go through the roof.

All they cared about was how smart they were and how they were going to set national policy. Policy that basically was anti anything that most of us here like. Eg hunting, fishing, shooting, Motorsports, and anything else they didn’t approve of.

So if I’m hell bent on being very protective of our Constitution it’s because I’ve had some of them flat out say the Constitution has to go.
 
Some of the smartest people I know have no formal education.
Some of the dumbest have multiple PhDs

Some of the biggest mouths that think they know everything have never worked a real job, never gone out and met real working people but look down on those that actually do work for a living.

The worst was the PhD student that told me NO ONE needs a big truck like my F150. When I said my truck is small, and that trades people need to move large things and need LARGER trucks they went nuts. Ranting about how big trucks were destroying the planet. They didn’t want to hear that their little bubble was built by those people needing trucks. The service people who took care of their apartments did too. They didn’t even care that costs would go through the roof.

All they cared about was how smart they were and how they were going to set national policy. Policy that basically was anti anything that most of us here like. Eg hunting, fishing, shooting, Motorsports, and anything else they didn’t approve of.

So if I’m hell bent on being very protective of our Constitution it’s because I’ve had some of them flat out say the Constitution has to go.

In their minds the only solution is Global Government and your support for the Constitution and 2nd Amendment gets in the way of progress. Their progress toward Grande World Eutopia. You see I have little use for most Democrats and Republicans, but I'm going to do straight flush for the Republicans to punish stupid Democrats. I hope Stepan Bannonskiy succeeds in having as many career politicians as possible voted out. I don't know what his final goal is, but he is smart and I like him.
 
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Their progress toward Grande World Eutopia.
I'm not quite as concerned about the aspirations of political elite, as much as some common people's willingness to give up or even play along with it.

As far as the possession of multiple firearms is concerned, never in the history of man has it made anyone more deadly than owning just one. If that really was the case or had any relevance to reality, all armies in the world would issue at least five rifles to each soldier...
 
Most of these bills, will not see the light of day, but it only take one time, one vote. I was told over and over again, obamacare would never pass, but look at now, once it is a law, you can't get rid of it, even if it is taking the country down.
 
I thought they already did that. My dealer puts my name on a form when I buy more that two two guns in five day period. I know this for a fact. Maybe "rifles" are currently exempt and the Democrats want to change that.

Handguns will cause a red flag, yes. I believe the change is to include rifles. I bought 3 handguns in a single day. 2 XDs and a 1911, all in 45. A few months later I had a sit down meeting with 3 ATF agents. They were concerned, very understandably. So I let them know they were commemorative firearms for my Army Unit and that changed the whole tune. That detail had been left out of the the report they got from the gun store. I offered to show them pictures of the guns on my phone to show the engraving but they were satisfied with the result and left. Nothing ever came of it.
 
The Second Amendment is intended to limit politicians. Their very being bristles at the idea. Many can't even voice that thought, instead spouting it's about hunting deer.

A weakness in our system is that political legislators and judges can attack the Second Amendment with laws. That's like foxes guarding hen houses.
 
Handguns will cause a red flag, yes. I believe the change is to include rifles. I bought 3 handguns in a single day. 2 XDs and a 1911, all in 45. A few months later I had a sit down meeting with 3 ATF agents. They were concerned, very understandably. So I let them know they were commemorative firearms for my Army Unit and that changed the whole tune. That detail had been left out of the the report they got from the gun store. I offered to show them pictures of the guns on my phone to show the engraving but they were satisfied with the result and left. Nothing ever came of it.

I have never, ever heard of ATF contacting an individual over a form 3310.4 NEVER. Not to mention not one, not two but three "agents". I'm sorry, but this smacks of either not being even halfway truthful, or only part of a much larger story. When ATF does inquiries without any reason for probable cause regarding a criminal act, they send out an (as in one, singular) investigator (not agent) to report on it. They simply do not have the resources to inquire on routine multiple purchases. They don't even have the resources to do annual compliance inspections on every licensee. I know a lot of FFLs who have been operating for years and never had one.

Three hundred handguns on a form 3310.4 would likely result in an investigation. Three doesn't "red flag" squat, happens many times every single day.
 
“No sportsman or woman needs 30 rounds to kill a deer. It’s shameful that we protect our deer better than we protect our people.”

Whenever someone starts spouting off about how "no one needs (gun or gun-related item) for hunting", I always ask them to show me the part of the 2nd Amendment where it says "hunting".

Also, I'd want as much firepower as I could reasonably handle for hog hunting. They can mess you up in a jiffy.
 
I have never, ever heard of ATF contacting an individual over a form 3310.4 NEVER. Not to mention not one, not two but three "agents". I'm sorry, but this smacks of either not being even halfway truthful, or only part of a much larger story. When ATF does inquiries without any reason for probable cause regarding a criminal act, they send out an (as in one, singular) investigator (not agent) to report on it. They simply do not have the resources to inquire on routine multiple purchases. They don't even have the resources to do annual compliance inspections on every licensee. I know a lot of FFLs who have been operating for years and never had one.

Three hundred handguns on a form 3310.4 would likely result in an investigation. Three doesn't "red flag" squat, happens many times every single day.


I have no 1st hand knowledge but I have read that (ATF visit) here a few time's over the years.
 
I have no 1st hand knowledge but I have read that (ATF visit) here a few time's over the years.

Possibly, although my bet would be on better funded and staffed alphabet soup agencies like DHS, who would then have ATF investigate a suspected violation.

But, frankly, with the number of people who post videos and photographs of clearly title II stuff which they blatently admit isn't registered who are still posting those photos and videos, I'm inclined to believe what I've heard literally from the horse's mouth that ATF is too busy to bother with most of the things that have earned them such a boogeyman status.

I held an FFL03 for years, never so much as a phone call about it. I've done several multiple handgun purchases and have multiple NFA items, as well as being an RP on an 07/02 and an 01/03. I've submitted snail mail inquiries to FTB, and have called a few times to both FTB and NFA branch. All that, and the only time ATF has ever contacted me was to schedule an interview for my FFL07 application, which was a very quick and friendly ordeal with a local office investigator.
 
I bought 3 handguns in a single day. 2 XDs and a 1911, all in 45. A few months later I had a sit down meeting with 3 ATF agents. They were concerned, very understandably.

Interesting. I'd say it would be understandable if you bought 3 guns a day once every couple of weeks for half a year, but I don't really see it as understandable in and of itself. I bought two guns in one day last week and one a few days before that, which puts all three in a five day period. I wouldn't expect a visit from the ATF because of it.

My friend says what the ATF really looks for is someone buying several Hi Points or Tauruses or SCCY's or Bersa's every week for several weeks, because they figure no gun collectors buy that many of those type of guns. To be fair, Taurus makes a fairly wide variety of gun types, so you could buy a dozen or more Taurus guns and not have much redundancy. The ATF also really looks for redundancy...maybe the fact that you bought (what sounds like) two almost identical guns of the same caliber in one day flagged your purchase. Or maybe the fact that all three were .45 acp.

Still, Smith and Wesson revolver collectors have LOTS of redundancy, in part because S&W's old vintage guns are still a very good value compared to other high quality brands. (I have several model 10's and many other .38 Smiths as compared to just a couple of Colts.) I suppose revolvers aren't a flag. Or maybe the ATF will visit me, too. If they do, I won't freak out, but it is kind of unnerving.
 
Handguns will cause a red flag, yes. I believe the change is to include rifles. I bought 3 handguns in a single day. 2 XDs and a 1911, all in 45. A few months later I had a sit down meeting with 3 ATF agents. They were concerned, very understandably. So I let them know they were commemorative firearms for my Army Unit and that changed the whole tune. That detail had been left out of the the report they got from the gun store. I offered to show them pictures of the guns on my phone to show the engraving but they were satisfied with the result and left. Nothing ever came of it.
I wouldn't talk to them without a lawyer present. They've actually in the past produced a training video on how to lie under oath.

I wouldn't trust any of them as far as I can throw Harvey Weinstein, Rosie O'Donnell and a boxcar full of bags of hammers.
 
When the wife asks I'll just say I needed to get both thousand round cases before the ban... Gotta spend money to save money!
 
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