Tips for shooting with a ghost ring at 100+ yards

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Jason_W

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i was finally allowed to pick up my savage scout rifle yesterday and got it to the range today.

After getting the sight sort of dialed in at 50 yards (a somewhat aggravating task) I moved the target to 100. That’s when everything fell apart as the attached photo indicates.

Granted, I’m very out of practice and there were a couple of other factors beyond my control working against me, but that’s 12” diameter target we’re looking at.

I’m thinking about loading up some reduced recoil loads and then concentrating on proficiency at 50 yards before moving out further. Granted, a standard .308 load isn’t exactly brutal recoil wise, but after 50 or 60 rounds fatigue did start to set in. 64D355BA-8CBA-4F08-8A49-D5C77A7A5A90.jpeg
 
How were you holding it? Standing, prone, or seated on a bench? Focus on the target and the front post should center itself in the ring. The sighting reflex should feel natural and not forced. You probably just need more practice. I would not move back to the 50 yard target as you are not going to teach your body anything there, other than trigger mechanics. I have always been told that vertical movement is from breathing and horizontal deviation is from your trigger technique. Looking at the pattern I think it appears to be lack of a good center of your front sight post. You might practice pulling the gun to your shoulder and focusing on a target at the 100 yard distance. Sort of "dry aiming" to get accustomed to the sight picture.
 
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I was shooting from the bench. One of the problems I wax running into is that the target stands at my range are way above the plane of the bench. This had me taking a really awkward uncomfortable position in order to line the sights up on target.
 
I like the 6 o clock hold too. Usually my front sights for ghost rings are big enough to obscure the target at distance, so that really helps a lot like 243 said.
 
To echo what has been said, concentrate on the front sight. The rear ring should be a blur. Don't try to consciously center it, just look through it at the front sight. Consistent cheek weld will keep your eye in the same position shot after shot.
 
You have gotten good advice. Another thing to consider is that you want to make sure you can see the front sight well. I realized with my peep that I could center the front site in the circle when I could see it, but in anything less than bright light I had a hard time seeing it well enough. Swapping it out for a fiber optic made a huge difference.
 
How's your vision? Ghost rings don't help me focus on a front sight at all anymore. If that's your situation, it will be difficult to focus on your front sight.

After getting the sight sort of dialed in at 50 yards (a somewhat aggravating task) I moved the target to 100. That’s when everything fell apart as the attached photo indicates.

Granted, I’m very out of practice and there were a couple of other factors beyond my control working against me, but that’s 12” diameter target we’re looking at.

I’m thinking about loading up some reduced recoil loads and then concentrating on proficiency at 50 yards before moving out further. Granted, a standard .308 load isn’t exactly brutal recoil wise, but after 50 or 60 rounds fatigue did start to set in. View attachment 765538

If you spent all your pre-fatigue shooting at 50 yards, 100 yards will be harder to make tiny groups. On the next range trip you'll be fresh, start at 100 yards first and see how it goes.
 
Put a fiber optic front sight, small diameter (1mm/0.004”). This will help it pop out. Forget about the rear ring when aiming, it should be a blur. Use an aperture hole of 2mm/0.008” at max, more than that is good for fast work (large animals, incoming, with hostile look on their face) but too coarse for accuracy at 100 yards.

I have peep sights on all my personal rifles, once you understand them they are accurate much farther than one would expect.
 
Even though it might seem counter intuitive, try using a larger target. Being able to "put the golf ball on the tee" will be much easier, and I anticipate that your group sizes will become smaller.
 
I have three rifles set up with a rear aperture and front fiber optic bead. Using the 6 o'clock hold @ 100 yards, I've routinely been able to shoot sub 2-MOA groups with my muzzleloader, .22 LR and Win-94 30-30. With the muzzleloader and 30-30, I find the bottom of the front bead is very close at 200 yards.

I'd say all you need is practice.
 
Make sure you use the same anchor point each and every time, as has already been said your eye will self center the ring if not forced. front sight and target should be your focus.
STW
 
+1..... Your eye will self center on the rear aperture and for a little extra help those fiber optic front sights can really make a difference especially for us old farts. It's nice to be able to pick up that bright fiber optic inside that little ring.
 
Work on getting a bigger/taller sandbag or way to hold/steady the gun.

If you are uncomfortable you will enduce unnecessary and inconsistent muscle inputs to the gun when establishing a sight picture and hold,

dry fire two or three times, then take one or two shots

After each shot, remember/write down where the sights were when the shot broke this makes you focus and allows you to admit and learn from a bad shot or twitchy finger

Fire when your lungs are empty and sights are on target, as you breath normally, there will be some sight movement but it should be a repeatable wobble, the sight picture you want is sights on target as you finish a normal exhale and before you begin to inhale, 2-4 second windows between breaths


Don’t be hard on yourself, are you sure the gun likes that ammo? My Daniel Defense AR HATES a load in have, 5”scoped and sandbagged at 100yds. Other loads are less than 1”

Many folks are very talented, others exaggerate and generalize, shooting tiny groups is hard (or I am a terrible shot)
 
In part, this is what happens when you don’t shoot for 3 years. It feels to a degree like starting over.

I’m not discouraged, I like the challenge. It’s part of the reason why I’m not scoping the rifle for now. I want to be decent with the peep first.

I’m not even really hung up on printing groups, but hitting targets. I want to be able to keep all my shots in a deer kill zone sized circle from field positions. Before I can do that, I need to verify the sight is dialed in from the bench.
 
I can do about 1.5-2" groups at 50 with my 1895g, which is my only gun with aperture sights. That's using front and rear rests on a bench and a 4" orange target with a black background. 100 yards for me is more like 5" on the bench and standing I'm glad to hold them all on a 12" plate at 100. At 30 yards I can hit my 2" plate standing most of the time. My eyes just don't really work past 50 yards or so though the aperture sight helps immensely compared to buckhorn sights. I've never tried any serious accuracy work ghost ring style with the aperture removed. Mine came with a .093 aperture which I liked but I find that I tend to vertically string with that. I got a .050 twilight aperture and that really helps me to shoot more accurately though it cuts down the field of view a bit. I would recommend you try a .050" and .093" aperture and see what you think. I'm certain you will shoot more accurately than with no aperture in
 
FWIW, military-style shooting competitions in Switzerland are done at 300m (330 yds), on targets with a 4" diameter 10 ring in the center of a 24" black ringed disk. The serious competitors are shooting 95 and above in ten-shot strings. That's a minimum of 5 shots in the 10, with plain black aperture sights on military rifles (often K31), and military ammo...
 
I like shooting aperture /peep sights I really enjoy shooting my A2 with the duel flip aperture sights I find them very accurate, like said above you need to have a consistent site picture
“Pumpkin on a post/stick” 6 o’clock hold is what I use, I was looking at the savage scout myself how do you like it ?
I noticed that the rear peep on it come with a small aperture installed and you can unscrew it and have the ghost ring , if your shooting for accuracy make sure you have the aperture piece screwed in / unless you’re scout is missing this piece ? You can also order different sized apertures from willams for it too !
 
Given the circumstances described by the OP, the target looks ok to me. Find a more comfortable shooting position, a couple more range trips, and that group should shrink to about 4" or better.
Another thing to note is that he shot a 10 shot group. Most of us who shoot 1-2" groups usually shoot 3 or 5 shot groups. Increase that to 10 shots and "fliers" can easily happen.
 
practice will all ways help , for sure I still practice as much as I can and still have an off day :)
 
I like shooting aperture /peep sights I really enjoy shooting my A2 with the duel flip aperture sights I find them very accurate, like said above you need to have a consistent site picture
“Pumpkin on a post/stick” 6 o’clock hold is what I use, I was looking at the savage scout myself how do you like it ?
I noticed that the rear peep on it come with a small aperture installed and you can unscrew it and have the ghost ring , if your shooting for accuracy make sure you have the aperture piece screwed in / unless you’re scout is missing this piece ? You can also order different sized apertures from willams for it too !

I really like the rifle so far. If there’s one complaint I have, it’s with the magazine lockup. The mag will only lock in with the bolt open. It’s not really a deal breaker for me.

Other than that, it’s turning out to be a nice, compact, and handy rifle. I’m eager to finish dialing in the sight and getting away from the bench. Shoot it how it’s meant to be shot.
 
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