What Are Your Thoughts on SA Revolvers?

jimeast said:

In context, this is not absurd at all. Home defense, and the average encounter that uses 2.4 shots.

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Yes, it is an absurd statement. You are pointing out that in some subset of circumstances, it won't matter. That's true. Equally true is that a .22lr single-shot will suffice in some subset of circumstances.

But that wasn't the claim. The claim was that an SA, in practiced hands, "gives absolutely nothing to any modern handgun." That's preposterous. It gives away many, many things. Which is precisely why there are no professionals using them anymore and why the only competitive use they get is in protected classes/games where their use is required. Some of the time, the things it gives away won't matter. But it gives away many things.

Speedo66 said:

The fact that competitors can shoot a SA quickly is irrelevant. ........................................................................................................ Most shooters are not competitors or experts with any gun. ..................................................


I will disagree with you here. The fact is, a Single Action revolver can be brought into action quickly and accurately is of utmost importance. That is, the gun itself is capable of rapid deployment, with power and accuracy.

A man who carries a gun for self defense and is not expertly proficient with it is a fool.

The gun is not a piece of jewelry or a fashion statement. You carry a gun with the idea you're going to draw with the intent of killing another person, or else he will kill you or your companion. You hope and pray to God that you're the one left standing when the smoke clears.

As to reloading, I never worry about the fact that I have only six rounds at my immediate disposal. I avoid any such place wherein I might be ambushed by more than a couple of individuals. I stay alert, aware of my surroundings, and will move on if I feel uncomfortable. I usually have my wife, and often times my sister, with me. So I'm a little wary of where I might stop for gas or some needed item. If it doesn't look right, I move on.

But when, and if, that time comes that I do have to pull my gun, I'm confident that my practice and awareness will pay off.

Bob Wright

Cooldill said:

If someone thinks a old single action isn't useful for self defense, then they haven't been to a SASS or CAS match. Them pards can shoot there singles damn near fast as any average man with a Glock, and reload so fast you'd think they'd drawn another piece.

Truth is, by a man that KNOWS HOW TO USE ONE, a good single gives absolutely nothing to any modern handgun. They are an experts gun, a shootist's gun. Those that balk at them are simply incompetent in there use.

Many high profile members here, such as Bob Wright, carry singles. I dare any of you to question him. These folks know how to run a single. A more reliable or accurate pistol is hard to come by. They are stone age simple, and oft come chamber in such manstoppers as the .357 Smith's & Wesson's Magnum and Colt's 45 Long.

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I have to disagree with some of this.

I am a fairly proficient pistol and DA revolver shooter. I do a lot of competition shoots (IDPA, USPSA, 3 gun).

I have taken my SAA Uberti to 3 separate "fun" competition shoots. I placed last every time. I even had to cheat with 'speed loaders'. If I was only shooting 5 rounds, I could keep up, but a soon as there was a reload, I got hosed. In a Self defense encounter, you don't know how many rounds are required and missing is a serious issue with a low capacity weapon.

I hear "well don't miss!" all the time and I don't think that is something to pin your hopes on.

Now, a guy like Bob Wright has had many, many, many years to get proficient with the SA platform. I would trust him to shoot straight and get the job done for sure. The same could be said for Bob Munden.
But me? not so much. I need more years of shooting SA revolvers before I would feel proficient enough with them to pit them against a 20 rnd capacity wonder-nine.
And because of the existence of modern autos and DA revolvers, I will likely never spend the time it takes. I have more advantageous options available.

Make no mistake, the SA revolver is still a deadly machine. Make your hits and whatever it was, will no longer be.

That said, to deny the advantages of a modern DA revolver or auto would be a potentially deadly mistake.

Maybe you missed "In context it is not absurd at all." The original claim was also aimed at expert usage. Like many race track events where guys quote "it's the driver not the car that wins." My suspicion is this holds true for armed encounters with bad guys.

Several tips on using a SA for defense or Conceal Carry below in the link.

ATLDave said:

Yes, it is an absurd statement. You are pointing out that in some subset of circumstances, it won't matter. That's true. Equally true is that a .22lr single-shot will suffice in some subset of circumstances.

But that wasn't the claim. The claim was that an SA, in practiced hands, "gives absolutely nothing to any modern handgun." That's preposterous. It gives away many, many things. Which is precisely why there are no professionals using them anymore and why the only competitive use they get is in protected classes/games where their use is required. Some of the time, the things it gives away won't matter. But it gives away many things.

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jimeast said:

Maybe you missed "In context it is not absurd at all." The original claim was also aimed at expert usage. Like many race track events where guys quote "it's the driver not the car that wins." My suspicion is this holds true for armed encounters with bad guys.

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No, I didn't miss it and I even explained why that modifier doesn't change things.

As for expert usage, all the time spent getting expert with an SA can be spent getting expert on other tools that have material advantages... which means you can get further, faster. An equivalent level of expertise with a more modern design will put one at a gigantic advantage.

Now, if someone just loves SA's and that's what they're familiar with and what they're willing to put in the work to master... sure. Most of the time it will be good enough. Heck, 99+% of civilians will never really, truly need a gun for self-defense ever.

But is wrong, wrong, wrong to say that an SA "gives nothing away" to modern firearms in the context of self-defense/home-defense. It absolutely does. Whether we're comparing a novice with a modern gun to a novice with an SA or an expert with a modern gun to an expert with an SA - for that kind of use, yes, the SA gives away a lot. Many times, it won't matter if the user is good enough and the circumstances favorable enough.

I made the general assumption his post was either trolling or gross inexperience, and either way, didn't really warrant response.

I used to totally overlook single action revolvers until fairly recently. Maybe the past 5 years or so.


I have grown to like and respect them. They are fun to shoot and carry, and tend to be very "at home" in the woods. I like the simplicity and reliability you tend to see with single action. I have 4 now, and would probably get more if I were willing to take on more calibers in my stable. Which could happen; like the saying goes - "Never say never"...

ATLDave, interesting conversation, but I am going to give way to the OP's question and not take the post further away from it's original intent. Maybe we can start this in another post dedicated to a topic on SA's and what they lack to be considered for various defense uses.

The NAA might find itself sitting in the safe quite a bit IMO. I don't have one. so I can't say for sure. But, the Rough Rider can be used for plinking, target shooting and in general lots of fun shooting opportunities. Regarding the caliber, I have a Ruger New Model Single Six .22 revolver and removing empty cartridges is a bit of a pain, the experience is very different than loading/unloading a New Vaquero in a 45 colt. I have not pulled out the .22 in almost a year, but get the .45 out weekly. If you have not tried a SA .22, I would suggest doing so prior to purchase to make sure it's what you are looking for. If your open to considering other cartridges I would also suggest looking at a .38 as well and seeing what that feels like in a SA revolver.

I have carried a SA revolver for defense before. Not often, but I never felt undergunned. Then again, I was sitting at my desk writing reports, not poking around in crack town or knocking on the doors of meth shacks. However, bumming about the woods I actually prefer the rugged SA. Im not going to get into a shootout, but having 5 or 6 shots readily at your command isn't a bad feeling.

Even still, while I know that a modern auto loader is a better carry weapon (I have a 10 round .45 acp on my hip as I type), I don't think I would snicker at a man who drew down on me with one if I were carry high capacity 9mm or not. The old "run what you brung" makes as much sense here as it does anywhere. An autoloader DOES increase your chances in a fight when it comes to potential hits on target and reloading. However SA revolver cleared from the leather and brought up to sight with deadly intent will carry more weight than harsh words should you be attacked.

Once again, I don't think they make the best (or even 4th best) carry weapon, but if that is what you have and you are comfortable with the limitations go for it.

Ssssshhhhhh.....

My .44 Special Vaquero Sheriff doesn't know he's NOT a defensive firearm.

I had a cute little SA S&W in 32-20 but I was foolish enough to let a cousin talk me out of it a few years ago. But I'd bought it at an auction in Knox (Indiana) and in three years had shot it maybe five times. As for self defense carry... On that I have to say to each their own. I have a hard enough time concealing a Commander and can't imagine trying to a revolver of any flavor. If a person were willing to train with the weapon enough that reloading under duress was quick and efficient as well as the weapon accurate then yes that flavor would be excellent for the task. Most people I know don't have that kind of time.

[QUOTE="Fiv3r, post: 10665644, member: 106559"........

........ but .45 colt even at Cowboy Loads has turned many a head into a pumpkin canoe when the need arises..[/QUOTE]

Oh my.... what an image..... excellent turn of phrase.

BobWright said:

Speedo66 said:

The fact that competitors can shoot a SA quickly is irrelevant. ........................................................................................................ Most shooters are not competitors or experts with any gun. ..................................................
A man who carries a gun for self defense and is not expertly proficient with it is a fool.

The gun is not a piece of jewelry or a fashion statement. You carry a gun with the idea you're going to draw with the intent of killing another person, or else he will kill you or your companion. You hope and pray to God that you're the one left standing when the smoke clears.
But when, and if, that time comes that I do have to pull my gun, I'm confident that my practice and awareness will pay off.

Bob Wright

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I agree with you, we should all be proficient with it. But the facts are, most are not, but carry anyway. Adding the extra steps of cocking for each shot and loading and unloading one at a time only adds to the complexity that may befuddle less practiced shooters in an extreme situation.

Cooldill said:

Truth is, by a man that KNOWS HOW TO USE ONE, a good single gives absolutely nothing to any modern handgun. They are an experts gun, a shootist's gun. Those that balk at them are simply incompetent in there use.

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Well there is the issue of reloads, however, for the most part I agree. A single action revolver can be extremely fast in the right hands. Some folks can shoot 'em like no tomorrow.

Well, now, I guess I don't find any issue with single actions for self defense as I sometimes carry this.

jimeast said:

Maybe we can start this in another post dedicated to a topic on SA's and what they lack to be considered for various defense uses.

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Oh good! We've NEVER discussed that before.

I fell into the trap, and should have put a smiley in my post

460Shooter said:

Oh good! We've NEVER discussed that before.

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Rocketmedic said:

So I'm thinking of scratching an itch with a SA revolver. I am considering a Heritage Rough Rider for plinking or an NAA minimag as a carry piece if I feel frisky. What are your thoughts?

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So, is your itch just for a .22, maybe something inexpensive? The scope of single actions is pretty broad.

SAA are a lot of fun to shoot. That alone should be a good enough excuse.
For CC, while they can be formidable, have some limitations that should discourage anyone from abandoning their DA or Semis.
But if a SAA is all I had, I could make it work with a lot of training,

Where SAA can shine:
As rattler remedy .45 CCI snake shot cartridges deliver good payloads for serpents & other varmints.
Home Defense A 250-255 gr, lead .45 Colt slug is nothing to sneeze at, and the C-O-L-T "signature" is up there with the shucking of a pump gun as an audible cautionary.
Hunting Especially when equipped with adjustable sights to ""optimize" a variety of hunting loads,

My thoughts on SA's? With 52 of them, I don't have anywhere near enough. They are like gremlins, they replicate almost by themselves.

As for SA's for self defense and Cooldill's comments, I agree more than I disagree, so it's not absurd at all. In practiced hands, the SA gives up nothing for the first 5-6 shots. If we are to believe the statistics, most gun fights are over in half that. We've had this discussion before and I was challenged to get a shot timer. Which I did and all it did was confirm what I already knew and posted. That for aimed fire, there is no discernible advantage to the DA revolver or semi-auto, in my hands, until a reload is needed. Even then, the DA is only quicker to reload IF you're using speedloaders or moon clips.

Of course, the argument is always made that if you spent as much time with the semi-auto, you'd be a lot quicker with a better weapon. That's true but if I wanted to spend that much time with semi-autos, I wouldn't be on this forum or having this conversation. Fact is, while I have quite a few of them, I don't have anywhere near the interest in them as I do revolvers, particularly single actions. Not to mention that practicing for self defense is to practice for something that will in all probability never happen. When I shoot single actions, I'm not only doing something much more enjoyable but I'm practicing for hunting and woods carry. Something that DOES happen all the time. So that's not really a valid argument. Otherwise, I'd just practice kung-fu instead and save myself a lot of money.

All that said, I carry a semi-auto 99% of the time. Why? Capacity? No, not much difference between a 7-shot semi-auto and a 6-shot revolver. Fire rate? No, we covered that. Rapidity of reloading? No, I don't carry a reload. Why then? Because they're flat, lightweight, easier to conceal and it's a $300-$500 soul-less tool that it won't hurt my feelings if it spends years in an evidence locker. You can't even put fancy grips on them, for crying out loud!

CraigC said:

Of course, the argument is always made that if you spent as much time with the semi-auto, you'd be a lot quicker with a better weapon. That's true but if I wanted to spend that much time with semi-autos, I wouldn't be on this forum or having this conversation. Fact is, while I have quite a few of them, I don't have anywhere near the interest in them as I do revolvers, particularly single actions. Not to mention that practicing for self defense is to practice for something that will in all probability never happen. When I shoot single actions, I'm not only doing something much more enjoyable but I'm practicing for hunting and woods carry. Something that DOES happen all the time. So that's not really a valid argument. Otherwise, I'd just practice kung-fu instead and save myself a lot of money.

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^ This is the valid argument in favor of SA's for self-defense. Nobody would rationally select one for self-defense if they were starting with a blank slate and no preferences and only self-defense as the goal. That would be crazy.

However, people aren't deciding in a vacuum. Some people have a strong preference for SA's for some other (perfectly valid) reasons. For those people, using the SA for self-defense is familiar, and they'll willingly devote time to developing a high level of skill. Since that will be enough the vast majority of the time, that's sensible. That doesn't mean that the SA "gives nothing away," which is simply false.

But a SA is significantly better than a sharp stick. And most of the time you don't even really need a stick. So it's gonna be fine the overwhelming majority of the time.

Context is always critical and I think people missed that with Cooldill's post. I always stipulate that the SA is a perfectly valid choice for those who are very intimately familiar/comfortable/proficient with them.

Nobody missed that. The statement was absurd. The statement was not "the SA is a viable SD choice." The statement was not "the SA is perfectly adequate for all but unusual self-defense circumstances." The statement was not that "an expert SA user can achieve levels of speed that resemble those of a reasonably proficient user of more modern firearms."

The statement was that it "gives nothing away" to other, more modern designs for SD use. That statement is preposterous. It gives away many things. Those things often won't matter too much or at all. But it gives those things away.