AR10 Build? My experience; just buy the complete rifle.

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berettaprofessor

berettaprofessor

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Based partly on desire, partly on stupidity, and elated by several successful AR15 lower builds, I've wanted an AR10 for years and since the complete rifles seem a bit pricey compared to AR15's, I decided to build one. Recently, Stag announced they were releasing an AR10 upper LH receiver based on DPMS compatibility (yes, I like LH AR's, but that's another discussion), so I jumped on it and ordered one, figuring I'd buy a decent lower later and complete it. The saga:

1. July: Hmmmm...in reading further, I found out that Stag's AR10 uppers have a unique angled fit, different than DPMS upper rounded patterns, so it would best if I order a Stag lower and do it soon while they're available. And look, Stag just emailed me a sale on Stag AR10 lowers and LPK's. Sold!

2. Look, there's an email with a sale on Stag's 308 buffer tube and buffer. Sold! Added a PMAG adjustable stock.

3. September; Lower assembled; still waiting on upper receiver (Stag had difficulties with magazine tolerances). Might as well start looking for a barrel; hmmm...received email of sale on Stag 308 barrels and low profile gas blocks. Good price, probably decent barrel; 18 inches, chrome-lined. Sold!

4. Late September: Previously bought a Stag barrel and now there's a sale on Stag 308 bolt carriers? Hmmm...probably the safest way to be sure of good headspace. Sold!

5. Early October: Still waiting on upper; might as well look for a handguard. As some will remember, I posted a question here asking about the best AR 308 handguards and the majority suggested either carbon fiber or Midwest Industries. Hmmm...pretty pricey all of them. Why are aftermarket handguards more than the cost of either lowers or uppers? Wait, MidwayUSA has a slightly blemished 12" 308 DPMS-compatible Midway Industries receiver on clearance for $140. Checked Stag website again; yes, DPMS compatible handguard should work. Sold!

6. Mid-October; Upper receiver arrived. Great quality, fit to lower is perfect. It was a long wait but I'm impressed with the quality. Begin to assemble. Mount barrel, tighten nut, place gas tube and block, slide over MI handguard. Wait...why is the top rail on the handguard lower than the top rail on the receiver? Check handguard packaging; yes DPMS compatible, 0.150 tang. Check Stag website closer, specs on upper receiver say the tang is 0.210? Look at Stag proprietary handguards; tang is 0.210, labeled "high DPMS". Evidently there are two DPMS standards. Bite the bullet and order the Stag 13" MLOK handguard $180.

And that's where I'm at now, waiting on the new handguard with an unassembled rifle since the new handguard will have a new barrel nut. Yes, I'm an idiot. But lessons learned:

a) I think this is a pretty good example of the variation in AR10 compatibility that makes it a challenge to assemble one from scratch.

b) yes, ultimately, all the sales on parts means I put together an AR10 for just above $1060 including the FFL transfer of the lower ($30), if we subtract the $140 spent on the MI handguard that I can't return. With that mistake thrown in, maybe not so good a deal overall, but on the other hand, a comparable Stag LH 308 on the Stag website is listed at $1650.

c) given all this, I'd recommend that unless you really just want to assemble an AR10 for the grins and giggles, you should just purchase a proprietary complete rifle. I've essentially got a completely Stag AR10 LH, minus the Magpul stock. It's a great rifle with good finish and fit, but I could have purchased it complete for just a few hundred more and with none of the headaches.

Anyone else with similar stories? Cmon, make me feel better!
 
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Bought a barrelled receiver for the barrel for a Springfield 1903 online on a buy it now at GB for cheap. Turns out the barrel is quite nice, postwar 1919. However, the 1903 receiver is from a rare WWI era Hoffer-Thompson .22 Springfield gallery gun and in great condition aside from tapping for what appears to be a Lyman ap sight. Well, I decided to set it up as a WWI display firearm (not for firing if you run across one--low numbered and one authoritative source claimed that these were selected from reject 1903 receivers at the time), which means I need a stock, well--the WWI era used finger grooved stocks--they now bring more due to scarcity, had to put on a matching period handguard right. The 1903 also used milled stock fittings and trigger guard--those are scarce and pricey now. Have to put the proper WWI era trigger, buttplate, etc.

Now, I may use the Hoffer Thompson receiver to make a m1922 look alike in a full military trim to which I have acquired most of the parts for but that will leave me with a lot of WWI era parts and a very nice barrel so that acquiring a high numbered 1903 receiver becomes tempting. Just like AR's, spare parts from builds leads deeper into the project morass.

My advice, is to instantly sell those spare parts after a build as if left alone, they will rapidly persuade you to assemble them into another rifle in order not to waste the parts and so on.
 
Yeah, that happens...alot.

Ive got multiple firearms that cost me around 1k to build, that i could have gone and bought a comparable rifle off the shelf for 350-400.
Specifically to Ars, I havent messed with the .308s just because of cost, and variances in each manufacturers design/standards. Ive wasted some money on my Ar15 builds, mostly do to ordering parts I later decided i didnt like, or didnt fit....not nearly as much as ive wasted on my bolt gun projects.

Your right, If you want a gun to shoot go buy one, If you want and adventure....try build the same gun!
 
Sunray said:
Building a rifle out of parts is the same as building a car out of parts. Costs a lot more in the long run.
Click to expand...

Yep it can be if you are in a hurry and if you want everything to be like new, but the journey is pretty fun and you do learn a lot about weapons design or car design when doing so. I require a specialist for some stuff like welding, milling, or lathe work, but it helps if you can at least describe some of the stuff going on and what you need.

The key to rebuilding some things long gone from production is knowledge, patience, learning good parts sources, general mechanical aptitude, and time which can save you money.
 
Sunray said:
Building a rifle out of parts is the same as building a car out of parts. Costs a lot more in the long run.
Click to expand...

Generally a true statement, although AR pattern rifles in kit form will often save you $50-$100 over buying an identical assembled rifle. But something like a Reminton 700, absolutely, since you'll spend almost as much on a receiver w/bolt as you would a basic rifle.
 
".308 AR10's" are PITA to figure out.

No offense intended at all... but, be happy you made it as far as you did !!

Many other people haven't !!

Once it is done... you will love it.

What gas length ? ...and have you considered an adjustable gas block yet ?... ( You will ... )
 
I can support the stupidity function with certain rifles. I found an Armalite A10A used at a store near by. Gave them $500 so they knew I was serious. The gun had to clear research, local ordinance. Got the thing and proceeded happy as a clam to the range. After 20 rounds of factory ammo, it failed fire and to eject. Pissed I left the range and returned home for the dethrowning of a live round. Got that accomplished, took it apart checked all of the parts lubed per Armalite. Back to the range it happened again. Now I am fuming. Finally got one of my bucket list guns and the bloody thing does not work. Went back to the store, they were no help. Changed ammo again and it fails to fire and fails to eject after 20 rounds.I am getting good at this routine.
I contacted Armalite and laid out the whole sordid story. I get a RMA and attention to number. Crap what is this going to cost? Sent it back and waited. Christmas is soon so I will not see the gun until the next year. WRONG! I get a call and go to the store. The owner shows me the paper work, new barrel, new receiver and new bolt. Almost a new gun. I explain to the store owner I am not upset with him just with the purchase. I can not expect a store owner to know everything about every gun there is. Off to the range. 20 rounds no problem 40 no problem and then I loaded 30 reloads in a clip for a fast fire exercise, no problem. Damn; it works. The last volley had all of the men out of the office at the range and standing behind me. I have installed a Armalite two stage trigger and it is really coming together. I now need to get the old men at the range to open up the long distance range for me. (400) Oh ya did not cost a cent even though I was not the original owner.

Some folks were convinced that my reloads were the problem. I knew they were crazed as I have a 4 digit set of calipers that I measure each round 4 places before it goes into the Dillon and then 5 places when it comes out. 308 is just to big to take a chance with, at least in my opinion. I knew it was not my reloads, sweet spot seems to be 165 gr boat tails. I have not gotten into any hot stuff like I have with my Shiloh Sharps 45-70 it is a bigger heavier gun and can take a quick round. My shoulder is another story.

Except for the glass my rifle will stay Armalite until I have no further need of it. Kind of cool having the granddaddy when the kids are shooting the clones. One young man shooting beside me asked how we would tell the brass apart. I picked up two pieces of spent brass one 308 the other 223. Oh: is all I got.
I let him and his dad do 5 rounds each. Kid did better than dad.

I admire anyone who wants to go though the exercise in building their own A10. I have found the the A10's are a lot more picky about mixing parts.
 
I’ll pull out my AR-10 tonight and get the parts list. I know there’s a fair amount of Aero-Precision parts and PSA in it. But I built my 20” barrel AR-10 with a hybrid lower (can take AR-15 parts like triggers and such) for barely over $650 last year. And it’s not a junk gun. Easily an upper-mid level gun.
 
My advice, is to instantly sell those spare parts after a build as if left alone, they will rapidly persuade you to assemble them into another rifle in order not to waste the parts and so on
Click to expand...

Great advice! Anyone that wants a 12 inch MI 308 DPMS compatible MLOK, please PM me and we'll work something out! Because that's exactly what is in the back of my mind...."What would I do with a second AR10 build? Maybe a Creedmore?" Yikes.
 
What gas length ? ...and have you considered an adjustable gas block yet ?... ( You will ... )
Click to expand...

18 inch barrel, so a rifle length gas tube. I thought about an adjustable, but haven't used one yet. Maybe I'll try it first on a 300BO AR.
 
If you find the .308 produces ample gas.... an adjustable gas block will help dramatically tame its persona dramatically.

I mention this because ultimately is easier to slow down the Linda Blair cyclic action ( In most .308 AR's .. YMMV ) with the adjustable gas block rather then various heavy buffers and tuning recoil springs.

So keep your eyes open for a deal on a SLR Adjustable gas block or such.
 
BigBore44 said:
I’ll pull out my AR-10 tonight and get the parts list. I know there’s a fair amount of Aero-Precision parts and PSA in it. But I built my 20” barrel AR-10 with a hybrid lower (can take AR-15 parts like triggers and such) for barely over $650 last year. And it’s not a junk gun. Easily an upper-mid level gun.
Click to expand...
id be VERY interested in that list
 
I will compose what I have. One note though... I’m a VERY frugal shopper. And many of the items were purchased on various sites on clearance. But I will get what I can. Took about 2 weeks to compose everything.
zymguy said:
id be VERY interested in that list
Click to expand...
 
I've had a couple Stoner SR25 match's over the years, an Armalite A4 (long gone) back in the Clinton year era, DPMS 308 Panther; sold it and several others to fund a 6.5 Creedmoor which is based on the Spikes 308 Jack receiver which is an upper and lower set, JP Enterprise barrel, bolt & carrier, captured spring buffer, stainless barrel, adjustable gas block, modular hand-guard, Geiselle trigger, Magpul PRS stock and a grip I liked at Academy when I picked up at 20 rounds of the factory ammo that has went down the barrel ... I picked up brass and projectiles on GunBroker along with dies, topped it off with a Leupold FFP/ELR scope ... I'm kinda embarrassed to say what the final price tag was ... but it does shoot slightly under 2.5" at 600 yards.
 
im starting the build for my first ar10 mainly because its easier on my wallet to build a gun slowly then buy a complete rifle at once.
plus it should be vastly better then what is offered as a complete rifle.

as of now I only have the mega maten receiver set but i plan on using a JP barrel, bolt and carrier , jp captured silent buffer. as for the rest i dunno yet.
 
It's mostly about getting a rifle assembled from a hand-picked selection of parts. As far as saving money is concerned, it more or less has to be based on the premise that time and effort aren't counted as an expense rather than a hobby. Personally I prefer keeping an eye on discount and clearance sales for a complete gun at a dirt-cheap price and modify it as need be. AR:s in general are such Lego kits that IMO there's little pride in assembling one from parts once you've done that a number of times. AR10 platform also has a bunch of compatibility issues to consider so in most cases it's advisable to just buy one and modify it from there if it leaves something to be desired.

I bought mine, an early R25, at a ridiculous discount with rebarreling in mind but once it proved to be a tack driver out of the box, I pretty much left it as-is. Sometimes you just get lucky and if you don't, these platforms make upgrades easy even for the technically inept.
 
The different rail height did come up as a mild inconvenience for me. I built my first 308 AR after researching what parts go with what and had no issues other than it just never shot as good as I thought it should. (turned out to be a scope issue LOL)
When I decided to change its configuration to a CQB type 308 and build another long range 308 based AR this time a 24" 1 in 7 twist 243 I bought a PSA forged upper and lower and wanted to use it for the 308 and use my billet Aero Precision upper/lower for the 243. The longer handguard I got wouldn't work with my Aero upper as I didn't check and didn't remember that the Aero and the PSA have different rail heights.
Long story short my 308 has a billet upper and lower and the 243 is forged and I'm not really fretting the 2oz heavier CQB gun or the 2oz lighter heavyweight.
 
There are a couple of reasons I am building.

Literally no one makes the configuration in the cartridge I want. (A flat-top A-2 style rifle in .243.) If I want it, I HAVE to build it.

I know there will be some tweaking and hiccups in building it. This will also let me learn more about how it runs.

Also, I intend to use it in a local distance competition, and I want to be able to say I built it myself. If there is a problem with it, I want to be able to fix it myself.
 
mljdeckard said:
Literally no one makes the configuration in the cartridge I want. (A flat-top A-2 style rifle in .243.) If I want it, I HAVE to build it.
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Or alternatively just rebarrel any of the flat-top A2 .308:s on the market... :)
 
mljdeckard said:
There are a couple of reasons I am building.

Literally no one makes the configuration in the cartridge I want. (A flat-top A-2 style rifle in .243.) If I want it, I HAVE to build it.
Click to expand...
Until the 260 and the 6.5 Creedmoor came along, JP Enterprise offered one (a 243) ... These two cartridges pretty much put the 243 out to pasture in an AR pattern rifle ...

hq said:
Or alternatively just rebarrel any of the flat-top A2 .308:s on the market... :)
Click to expand...
Yep ... That's an option too, just call Kreiger or any of the barrel makers, send them your bolt (so they can head space it since there isn't a standard like with the AR) and they will make a you one for about $400 or more, depending on the options you choose!
 
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If I am going to undo an upper to re-barrel it....I would rather just build the upper myself. DPMS makes the rifle I want in .308, I called their custom shop to ask if they could make me one in .243, they said they were so backed up on custom work, they wouldn't even take the order.
 
What I would build would be a 6.5 that would be 8lbs or less unloaded, with at least a 18" barrel.
But when you look at available barrels they are all chunky. Everyone needs a heavy barrel for some reason...
Also with AR-10 the carriers can be heavy. My old Armalite carrier was full diameter all the way back but my MP 10 is stepped down.
I dont build one because for me the MP 10 fits real close what I like. At least 18" as light as possible. Nothing you don't need.
 
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