IDPA 9mm bullet weight

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Tony k

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I did my first IDPA match in august, and I'm planning for more next season.

I'm new to the idea of loading to make power factor. Most of my favorite loads for 9mm are with 115 grain bullets and were just loaded to be reliable and accurate for range fun.

To make power factor, 115 grain needs to go 1100fps just to squeeze by. And many published powder loads w/ 115s never won't make 125 pf.

I'm thinking about switching to 124 or 147 grainers. What are some advantages/disadvantages of using 124 or 147 over 115?
 
But many published powder loads with 115s do make f 125. What have you got on hand?

I load 147s for the softer FELT recoil.
Of course Ol Georg and DWM thought 124 was best, back in 1902. But the Germans soon went to 115 to save that half gram of lead per round.

Lighter bullets cost a bit less.
Different weight bullets will shoot to different elevations. Enough to matter? Just have to try and see.
 
My pistol powders:
Silhouette
Zip
Bullseye
231
Red dot
Green Dot
Power Pistol
800x

Many of those will make it. I think. I was using up my last pound of IMR PB this year and maybe I got a little wrapped around the axle on those velocities. PB won't make it; that much is certain.

And yes, I shoot 115s for the small cost savings.

I should get a chronograph....
 
I use 147s:

Softer felt recoil
Easy to make Power Factor
Takes the occasional steel down reliably (as a matter of fact, in last weeks match I hit low on the steel 1st shot and it took the whole stand over).
They also hit POA=POI with my "drive the dot" European guns (HKs & Walthers)

Chuck
 
So you're cheap, at least concerning ammo, me too. The cost of 115's tempts me occasionally but they are my least favorite bullet for 9mm. I prefer 147 grains for the recoil impulse. For a compromise 124's are much better IMO than 115's and can often be found for nearly the same cost. Thanks to this forum I recently bought some 135 grain Xtreme plated for $55 per K shipped. Got 2K wish I had ordered 10K.
 
drunkenpoacher said:
So you're cheap, at least concerning ammo, me too. The cost of 115's tempts me occasionally but they are my least favorite bullet for 9mm. I prefer 147 grains for the recoil impulse. For a compromise 124's are much better IMO than 115's and can often be found for nearly the same cost. Thanks to this forum I recently bought some 135 grain Xtreme plated for $55 per K shipped. Got 2K wish I had ordered 10K.
Click to expand...
I use the Xtreme 115, but I'm about out at the moment. I'm open to exploring different recoil impulses. (That sounds dirty, lol)

$55/k? How'd I miss that deal!

The softer (felt) recoil with heavier bullets is a little counterintuitive. I suppose for a given power factor, the slide is moving more slowly with a heavier bullet, thus feeling more like a push than a snap?
 
Silhouette Haven't shot it.
Zip Haven't shot it.
Bullseye Loaded test ammo today with 135 and 147.
231 Have shot mostly 231 or HP38 for several years. May shift to Bullseye.
Red dot Haven't shot it.
Green Dot Some I got cheap did fine in 9mm but no reason to restock.
Power Pistol Max performance, lots of blast and flash. A manly gunpowder.
800x Haven't shot it. Said to be poor metering. I know 700X is.
 
Jim Watson said:
Silhouette Haven't shot it.
Zip Haven't shot it.
Bullseye Loaded test ammo today with 135 and 147.
231 Have shot mostly 231 or HP38 for several years. May shift to Bullseye.
Red dot Haven't shot it.
Green Dot Some I got cheap did fine in 9mm but no reason to restock.
Power Pistol Max performance, lots of blast and flash. A manly gunpowder.
800x Haven't shot it. Said to be poor metering. I know 700X is.
Click to expand...

Lol, "Power Pistol: a manly gunpowder"~Jim Watson, 2017. I like it.

Sillouette is supposed to be the same as WAP. I burns clean at most charge weights in both 9mm and 7.62 Tok in my limited tests. Full power powder but without the flash of PP. Almost too fine.

Green Dot has been good in 380. Supposed to yield similar results to 231, Wich I haven't tried yet.

How do you like Bullseye compared to 231? Why might you switch?

800x is ok in my rcbs thrower, but hopelessly inconsistent in a Lee pro auto disk or drum. 700x is a smaller disk that does fine.
 
The main reason I am considering going to Bullseye for 9mm (and .38 Special) is that my stock of HP38 is running down.
I keep Bullseye for midrange and powderpuff .45 ACP which is my approach to keeping .45s in use without the recoil that hammers my arthritis. .45 Minor is fun for IDPA ESP. The big holes will pick up a point every now and then.
It will serve about any non-magnum pistol caliber, so why stock more than one powder?

I read about people trying different powders, used to do a bit of it myself. But now I just say why? Unless you are going for utter maximum velocity or are trying for improved accuracy after you have already selected the best bullet available, there is little reason to flip flop on pistol powder.
 
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Yes, but you have to be careful. A fast powder and a heavy bullet will give a light FELT recoil but pressures can climb. There were some guns hammered hard with 200 gr .40 cal and Clays at Major.
 
Some of the "oddball" powders like Green Dot I pick up during the post Sandy Hook banic when I first started reloading.

Some of the others I picked up on consignment at the hardware store for a really good price.

Still others are just curiosity.

I could do almost anything I need in pistols with bullseye and maybe one slower powder like Silhouette. I don't use reloads for SD, so I don't really need big speed.

I've considered trying 45 for idpa loaded light to meet cdp power factor ( or which ever class is slightly larger than CCP). Probably use my bullseye and 230 rn plated. My standard range fun load is 4.7gr. I could try lower : )
 
I like 124/124 for USPSA.
I go against the general trend and prefer a medium speed 9mm powder WSF.
To me WSF just feels less "snappy" than HP38/Bullseye/Titegroup.
Current load is a RMR 124 with 4.4 gr WSF, makes 128-130 PF.

Lots of people like 147s with a fast powder.
Only way to tell what you/your gun likes best is to try some of both.
 
Dudedog said:
Current load is a RMR 124 with 4.4 gr WSF, makes 128-130 PF.
Click to expand...

That load is really light. Hodgdon website shows 4.7 (their min) @ 1015 out of a 4" barrel with an FMJ. Are you using plain lead?

I'm going to need a chronograph if I really want to fine tune a load...

Then again, I don't need to just make it by the skin of my teeth. Making it with 124 or 147 should be pretty easy.
 
Just to throw one more option in the mix, some people like 135 grain 9mm for USPSA and/or IDPA. That's usually people who feel/see their gun cycling in a manner they feel is "sluggish" with the 147's, but who think the 124's are still a bit snappy. I express no personal opinion on this particular issue, as I shoot major. ;P
 
ATLDave said:
Just to throw one more option in the mix, some people like 135 grain 9mm for USPSA and/or IDPA. That's usually people who feel/see their gun cycling in a manner they feel is "sluggish" with the 147's, but who think the 124's are still a bit snappy. I express no personal opinion on this particular issue, as I shoot major. ;P
Click to expand...
So other factors aside, slide velocity governs rate of fire? Very fast shooters might bump up against that limit with 147s, but 124s are too snappy? Hence the use of 130 and 135?

For my level, I'm more likely to be limited by my general skillset rather than the limits of the gun/bullet combo. I think.
 
Tony k said:
So other factors aside, slide velocity governs rate of fire? Very fast shooters might bump up against that limit with 147s, but 124s are too snappy? Hence the use of 130 and 135?
Click to expand...

No, I don't think as a practical matter the mechanical rate of fire is impacted. This is more about shooters who are processing very fast and seeing the sights throughout the recoil cycle. They can "feel" as though they are waiting for the sights to return. Highly subjective and personal. I think if you told them to just whack the trigger as fast as they could without regard to the sights, their splits would be the same for pretty much all of them.

FWIW, I very happily run quite heavy bullets (220 grain) in my major PF gamer loads. So I'm obviously not subject to this perception of a sluggish slide! I like the soft recoil for going fast!

Suggested course of action: Try 147's for the lowest possible recoil while still hitting your desired PF. If something about that seems unsatisfactory, try 124's. If you then wish you could split the difference, try 135's.
 
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ATLDave said:
No, I don't think as a practical matter the mechanical rate of fire is impacted. This is more about shooters who are processing very fast and seeing the sights throughout the recoil cycle. They can "feel" as though they are waiting for the sights to return. Highly subjective and personal. I think if you told them to just whack the trigger as fast as they could without regard to the sights, their splits would be the same for pretty much all of them.

FWIW, I very happily run quite heavy bullets (220 grain) in my major PF gamer loads. So I'm obviously not subject to this perception of a sluggish slide! I like the soft recoil for going fast!

Suggested course of action: Try 147's for the lowest possible recoil while still hitting your desired PF. If something about that seems unsatisfactory, try 124's. If you then wish you could split the difference, try 135's.
Click to expand...
Makes sense.
That's generally the plan. I'm watching for deals, mostly from Xtreme and RMR, but not exclusively
 
Tony k said:
That load is really light. Hodgdon website shows 4.7 (their min) @ 1015 out of a 4" barrel with an FMJ. Are you using plain lead?

I'm going to need a chronograph if I really want to fine tune a load...

Then again, I don't need to just make it by the skin of my teeth. Making it with 124 or 147 should be pretty easy.
Click to expand...

May not be too light depending on oal. I have a good shooting load with 4.6 wfs, 124 RMR fmj rn bullet at 1.130 oal.
 
A friend showed up at lunch today with videos of him shooting his 115s vs my 147s with a good horizontal fenceline in the background as reference.
The 147s had visibly less muzzle rise than the 115s although both were about the same power factor.

Another friend, in side by side comparison, preferred the feel of the 147s, but thought 124s were preferable to 135s. Difference between plated and coated bullets? I dunno.
 
Was using RMR 124gr Plated FNs. .3565 dia, 5" barrel 9mm 1911 (bullet is no longer available, was my favorite, working with the new MPR JHPs now, results coming soon:))
So slightly larger than "normal" .355 dia OAL was 1.09 (not loaded on the short side for this bullet profile)
Mixed range brass, S+B SP
Grains: 124
Hi Vel: 1054
Low Vel: 1039
Ave Vel: 1047
Ext Spread: 15
Std Dev: 6.8
RMR 124 FN 4.4-4.5 WSF 1.09 OAL (call it 4.45 scale rounds to .x )
Velocity Power Factor Ft/Lbs
1051 130.324 304.109
1044 129.456 300.071
1039 128.836 297.204
1054 130.696 305.847

Note-load should be subsonic
When pretty much at 4.4 vels about 1030-1035ish so making PF but not a lot to spare but load was consistent, and tested multiple times.
4.3 would get me there barely, upped it .1 for wiggle room.
 
A shooting buddy gave me over 4k 115 grain bullets, 8 lbs of TiteGroup, and 10k of a specific primer, so that's what I'm loading for a while. When I run out, may give the 147s a try. We use video to quantify split times and the peak recoil angle. Video is a great diagnostic tool to distinguish what you think is happening from what is really happening.
 
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