Hornady and Lake City

I think it's more likely that Hornady is buying brass from Lake City and loading it themselves.

Lake City is currently operated by Federal. There's nothing on the Midsouth page that says anything about LC either. Hornady's Frontier brand is just that. A new brand name.

Did you guys watch the video? States in there that LC will be assembling the ammo using Hornady bullets.

divingin said:

Did you guys watch the video? States in there that LC will be assembling the ammo using Hornady bullets.

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Jack B. said:

Watch the video.

http://www.mssblog.com/2017/10/20/new-hornady-products-for-2018/

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Thanks. I was on my phone earlier and I didn't notice that there was a video. I've never heard of LC loading ammo for anyone else before. I know they were leasing part of the facilities to a company that was remanufacturing ammo with LC brass, but this is definitely new. I guess Hornady must be doing well if they're selling enough ammo that they need LC to make more for them.

KansasSasquatch said:

Thanks. I was on my phone earlier and I didn't notice that there was a video. I've never heard of LC loading ammo for anyone else before. I know they were leasing part of the facilities to a company that was remanufacturing ammo with LC brass, but this is definitely new. I guess Hornady must be doing well if they're selling enough ammo that they need LC to make more for them.

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I think they load it for Fedearal and IMI.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/7...round-clips-in-ammo-can-of-420-14-boxes-of-30

Lake City is a Government Owned Contractor Operated facility. Now I have been told that once the contractor in charge has fulfilled their Government obligations, they can run the plant and make ammunition for sale. I think this must be a great deal for the contractor who wins the bid to operate Lake City, the Government pays for the maintenance, repair, of the facility and the contractor gets to run the plant for themselves. I don't know the up side for the Government other than some Colonel gets a great job from the Contractor when he retires from the Army.

This is why we have seen brand new LC 223 brass, Lake City ran more and sold it to the civilian market place.

Slamfire said:

Lake City is a Government Owned Contractor Operated facility. Now I have been told that once the contractor in charge has fulfilled their Government obligations, they can run the plant and make ammunition for sale. I think this must be a great deal for the contractor who wins the bid to operate Lake City, the Government pays for the maintenance, repair, of the facility and the contractor gets to run the plant for themselves. I don't know the up side for the Government other than some Colonel gets a great job from the Contractor when he retires from the Army.

This is why we have seen brand new LC 223 brass, Lake City ran more and sold it to the civilian market place.

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The Army probably doesn't trust troops making ammo. I can't say as I blame them.

I saw some things in the military which would lead me to believe that might be a good decision.

Slamfire wrote:
I think this must be a great deal for the contractor who wins the bid to operate Lake City, the Government pays for the maintenance, repair, of the facility and the contractor gets to run the plant for themselves.

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You have no basis for assuming this is what the contract says.

The contract is not classified, you could submit an FOIA request, obtain a copy and find out what the terms actually are.

From what I was able to find ATK Orbital is allowed to load ammo for any private company so long as their current government orders are filled satisfactorily. ATK has an agreement with Federal to give them first priority, after the DOD.

What is surprising to me is that the contract language between ATK and Federal allows ATK to produce the same ammo for other commercial companies at a cheaper price than what Federal has to pay. Maybe it shouldn't be surprising though since ATK spun-off Vista Outdoors (Federal's parent company) and now they're entirely separate. Federal is also bound to buy a minimum amount before they can buy ammo of the same specs from other companies. The price Federal has to pay for the ammo has also increased recently since signing a new contract with ATK. Under the old contract they had a partial profit sharing agreement with ATK which ended under the new contract, but the end of the profit sharing and the price increase are intended to cancel each other out somehow.

As far as I'm aware ATK is responsible for maintaining and upgrading the facilities in the contract with the DOD, but I'm sure the contract was worth more than enough for ATK to recuperate those expenses. Not to mention what they stand to profit from deals with private companies.

ETA: Until trying to research it more I had always been under the impression that all of the commercial branded ammo marked XM855 or others using new LC brass was over-runs and rejects from government contracts. I guess some of it could still be rejects as the specs for M855 call for a tighter velocity window than cheap commercial plinking ammo sometimes has. But Federal XM855 has always been pretty consistent for me, so now I'm doubting that any of it is government rejects.

I have some boxes of 7x57 Mauser reloads that started life as Hornady Light Magnum`s and they have Frontier on the head stamp. I never really thought anything about it.
Thanks for bringing up the subject, I am open to learning more about it.

IIRC - I think - reject batches of actual gummint ammo are not sold off as is and must be disassembled. No idea what happens to the powder but the brass and bullets have been previously mentioned as good buys. Having read this I'm leery of hearing XM855 is "surplus." What it very well may be is off contract manufacture, and as such was never .Gov property in the first place. These things seem minor until you look at it the way the contracts read, as the above posts illustrate.

In the last ten years LC was running 24/7, the contractor went thru and made a major overhaul with capital improvements in machinery, which resulted in a major increase of production. They then laid off about half the workforce thru a voluntary program with incentives. If ATK wants to put on a second shift on one line knowing they will make a profit then hooray for them. They have a friendly and experienced pool of knowledgeable workers they took care of and it never hurts to do that.

Contractor run is best? Depends, but I never found complaint about it at a chow hall operated by one, either.

I have Hornady ammo from the early 2000s that is headstamped "Frontier". Rumor back then is that the brass was private label Winchester.