California rampage puts spotlight on homemade 'ghost guns'

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Am I the only one who thinks many of these mass shootings are contrived?
The shooter's motives, lately, have been sketchy, at best. They just seem
tailor-made for media frenzy, is all.

Is the use of a ghost gun, in California, in a rampage shooting, now, just
a fantastic coincidence?
Best not to go down that road lest we be seen as conspiracy nuts. Anyway, such a wide-ranging conspiracy would be nearly impossible to pull off, and could not be kept secret. The simplest explanation is that mass shootings happen (for whatever reasons) and then are quickly exploited by the anti-gunners.
 
Best not to go down that road lest we be seen as conspiracy nuts. Anyway, such a wide-ranging conspiracy would be nearly impossible to pull off, and could not be kept secret. The simplest explanation is that mass shootings happen (for whatever reasons) and then are quickly exploited by the anti-gunners.

Exactly, precisely so.

This is a large country, with 323,100,000+ people living in it. That's a number we have trouble actually picturing in our minds, but when you collect that many of something together, very, VERY odd and coincidental things will happen, though in very small numbers.

Think of it this way: the bigger the number of people you have, the closer you get to seeing every possible thing that COULD happen, happen at least once, to/by somebody in that group.

Never ascribe to malice what can be explained by stupidity -- and mental illness, extreme political/social/racial views, and all sorts of other human goofiness. That stuff will cause very strange events, in very small numbers, any time you've got a hundreds-of-millions sample size to look at.


The biggest problem with conspiracy theories, as AlexanderA points out, is that they require large-scale coordinated and incredibly secret, incredibly high-stakes, and incredibly sociopathic efforts by very large groups (thousands, at least) of government and non-government personnel all working in perfect harmony and without any qualm or hesitation or second-guessing or whistle-blowing. That makes for great and compelling X-Files story arcs, but doesn't actually work in real life. Sure, you may find one, ten, a dozen, or even more agents of some secret government program perfectly willing to murder lots of innocent men, women, and even children, very publicly, to make political hay. But not the hundreds of federal, state, and local officers, officials, EMS personnel, doctors, press, business owners, witnesses, etc. who'd have to be in on it to make it happen and keep the conspiracy COMPLETELY silent. And not without seeing the small flurry of secondary "coincidental" deaths there would have to be to silence the dozens or hundreds who would refuse to play along.

Then, on top of that, it would have to be WORTH something. Massive, hugely expensive, incredibly high-risk conspiracy shadow agencies would not burn themselves up on something so questionable and pointless as mass murder to promote gun control. There's no money in it. There's precious little control in it. And, most tellingly, going all the way back to Sandy Hook -- there's no SUCCESS in it. It hasn't worked. The anti-gun side of the aisle has sputtered and spun in their own dust and gotten nowhere, and these recent killings have pushed even less gun control progress (far less, in fact) than the efforts after Sandy Hook.

If there WERE such effective conspiracy agencies in the country, ineffectual feints at promoting gun control wouldn't be important enough for them to expend their energies, agents, and opportunities on.

So, nope. Not going to go with conspiracy theories.
 
Am I the only one who thinks many of these mass shootings are contrived?
The shooter's motives, lately, have been sketchy, at best. They just seem tailor-made for media frenzy, is all.

I definitely tire of the conspiracy claims any time there is a mass shooting now a days.

Ever watch those true crime shows? people murder each other day for the stupidest reasons and have been doing it since we humans started recording history.
Everyone likes to claim the AR is the most popular gun in America. which is precisely why we will see them used in more and more events. All the while the anti's will continue to attempt to get their bans.
 
Unfortunately, simply quoting the words of the 2nd Amendment is almost irrelevant in this debate. I'm pessimistic that the growing societal fissures can be dealt with in constitutional terms. They go far deeper than the constitution.

It's a cultural issue as you say and the reason the supreme court won't touch it. How long did it take them to address SSM, 30 years. That also had more to do with culture than anything else, It certainly had nothing to do with the constitution other than possibly the 10th amendment. We have cultural extremes in this country. What is considered the norm in CA is really looked down on in KY. and vise versa.

"And it's not surprising then that they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations,"
Barack Obama. That's the cultural divide right there as expressed by the last president. This was his disassociation with a culture that he didn't understand nor cared to represent. He has said he would like to work with inner city black youth who are at risk now that he is a civilian again. I guess he associates with that culture.
 
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So, nope. Not going to go with conspiracy theories.

Well, there really is no logical reason to explain F&F other than it was our federal governments attempt to escalate the illegal trafficking of guns from the US into Mexico. They wanted desperately to link those weapons purchased in the US to drug trafficking and murders on both sides of the border. It was supposed to be used as an example of why semi auto rifles should not be available to the average US citizen. It was an illegal and clandestine operation from the beginning by our own gov't. Even the Mexican Gov't didn't know anything about it. After that I just won't put any faith in the federal gov't to not try to dupe the American people. I'm not saying it's rampant or that it even exists today, but if it happened once the capacity is always there and always will be. If it wasn't exactly what I said it was the adm wouldn't have covered it up and protected the AG from exposure through investigation. No one could honestly believe that those rifles wouldn't fall into the hands of the cartels once across the border. If they do they haven't spent much time in Sonora or on the border.
 
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Vast conspiracy? No.
Who needs a vast conspiracy? Heck, it could have been just one or two people to talk an already mentally unbalanced person into it.
Not necessarily what happened, just a possibility.
 
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I try to stay out of stuff like this, but I have thought the same thing for years.
One guy could have set the whole thing up.

I am not saying this happened, or even that I think this happened. I am just saying that if something like this ever did happen, it wouldnt have to involve a thousand people. The whole "vast" conspiracy thing is cliché.
 
Best not to go down that road lest we be seen as conspiracy nuts. Anyway, such a wide-ranging conspiracy would be nearly impossible to pull off, and could not be kept secret. The simplest explanation is that mass shootings happen (for whatever reasons) and then are quickly exploited by the anti-gunners.


I'd like to believe that, but I can't help feeling like there are some rampage shooters who's relatives, who should be watched,
for signs of sudden unexplained wealth. A gay nightclub in Florida, a church in Texas, a ghost gun in California? NOTHING, in, say, a slow news state, like
Oregon, Idaho, Delaware, or Utah? Really?
 
I don’t believe in ghosts so ban them.

None of the firearms I have built are ghosts though.

Converting the piece of metal into a firearm is relatively simple and takes only a few hours. A drill press or a metal cutting machine known as a Computer Numeric Control, or CNC, is used to create a few holes in the receiver and well out a cavity.

It is, even more so for people who know how to program and set up a CNC machine, not to mention afford one in the first place. A few hours in any fun forum and it’s pretty easy to see that there are some people that can’t get a “registered” bought and paid for firearm to run much less build one from a piece of metal.

Anything is easy for someone than has never done it or reads about it. Converting a piece of metal into a killing machine doesn’t even take a few hours apparently, just go to homedepot and rent a truck.

Wouldn’t surprise me if they put a stop to this “epidemic” though (insert roll eyes face).
 
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