Very Impressive .38 Special Load

Whhhaaaaaaaattttttt.......
So they advertise it as being standard pressure, but its generating almost 2x the muzzle energy of a +p?
I realize modern .38 loads are tame compared to when the cartridge was introduced c.1900, but this seems too good to be true.

To generate 450 foot pounds of energy that 158grain bullet has to be moving at 1133 feet/second.

I bet that’s a handful in a j frame.

NIGHTLORD40K said:

Whhhaaaaaaaattttttt.......
So they advertise it as being standard pressure, but its generating almost 2x the muzzle energy of a +p?
I realize modern .38 loads are tame compared to when the cartridge was introduced c.1900, but this seems too good to be true.

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BB does have a standard pressure 158 LSWCHP, but this is the +P version. I carry that standard pressure load in my vintage Mod 37. IIRC it gives ~800 FPS.

Several years ago I tried out the +P version in my airweight J frame. It performed as advertised. Right around 1000 fps.

I carried it for a while but later decided that the recoil was a bit excessive and switched to the standard pressure load. It is still on par with most other makers' +P "FBI" loads.

In a heavier gun, sure, that +P stuff is hard to beat.

Unless its a gas checked bullet, leading is going to be a problem in a lot of revolvers.

Unless its a gas checked bullet, leading is going to be a problem in a lot of revolvers.

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If you look at the picture of the box, right at the end of where it says LSWCHP, it also has GC. BB has several loadings that are gas checked.

Pelo801 said:

If you look at the picture of the box, right at the end of where it says LSWCHP, it also has GC. BB has several loadings that are gas checked.

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Yep. Thanks. Years ago I experimented with wax gas checks, never seemed to get something that worked. Gave up and stuck to metal ones.

BB makes good ammo, though it is expensive. I've bought a few boxes of their .38 +P Outdoorsman. Out of my 6" model 14 it's generating more or less standard .357 velocities and power. And the hard cast lead really doesn't lead the barrel. Not range ammo, though.

jaguarxk120 said:

To generate 450 foot pounds of energy that 158grain bullet has to be moving at 1133 feet/second.

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WestKentucky said:

I bet that’s a handful in a j frame.

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Out of a 4" barrel no less.

Does anyone know exactly how BB pressure tests their loads?

I think there is a good analogy* between integrated circuit manufacturers getting started and ammo manufacturers getting started.
The I.C. foundries get going by being on the cusp of Moore's law with cheap memory I.C.s. Later, once established, they move on to more complicated, expensive, and less competitive parts of the Silicon market.
Double tap started up with Glock Talk poster with 200 gr super hot 10mm handloads 15 years ago. I was encouraging him. Now it is SAAMI max average pressure respectable.
Buffalo bore made a 380 +P 90 gr JHP load that did 1100 fps with a Kel-Tec P3AT 2.7" barrel that does not blow out in a chamber with the terrible P3AT or LCP feed ramp intrusion of 0.215" when 380 brass web is only 0.175" thick.
I have worked on the same loading with many powders, and 1100 fps is hard to get, even tolerating some case bulge.
I predict that Buffalo Bore will grow and get respectable.

* Scott Adams says no one is persuaded with statistics or analogies.

Looks like a nice load to stoke my .357 SAA clone with when bumping around in the woods. It'll handle .357 just fine, but I prefer hot .38 +p unless I were anticipating coming across something requiring more punch.

In the woods of southern Indiana and northern Kentucky, there aren't any thick skinned critters. MAYBE a feral hog with a hard head or a cougar jumping you (not that you would see it coming), but mostly dogs, coyote, and meth cooks are the problems you can run across.

That BB .38 would do the trick, I would think.

Clark said:

* Scott Adams says no one is persuaded with statistics or analogies.

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Scott Adams opining on the efficacy of persuasive techniques is like a podiatrist opining on the efficacy of chemotherapy... 95% baseless.

I think this product has come up in a thread before...

I think the lubricity difference between lubricated cast lead projectile and a copper jacketed or plated projectile is what allows such massive numbers on relatively low pressures.

I have no experience with any .380 loads, so I don't know what BB does with them.

ATLDave said:

Scott Adams opining on the efficacy of persuasive techniques is like a podiatrist opining on the efficacy of chemotherapy... 95% baseless.

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Then you were not persuaded by Scott's book on persuasion.

Thus proving my point!

I have been loading this equivalent load for many years. It is pretty much just a reprodution of the 38/44 load that lead to the 357 round being introduced. I use a hard cast 158gr bullet with 6grs of Unique in a 38 Special case or 6.6grs of Unique in a 357 case. Its my favorite load to shoot in a 357 revolver because it doesn't leave a fouling ring in the chamber.

Since you brought up Soft Gas Checks I have never used them but I still have the one sample sheet sent to me many years ago. It measures around .066 or 1.60mm in thickness. The place that sold them was called CF Ventures. Here is some I found on Ebay in case you are interested.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/5LB-BASE-PLATE-WAX-PINK-EXTRA-TOUGH/182994900332?_trkparms=aid=222007&algo=SIM.MBE&ao=2&asc=47300&meid=a2e2355591954fa6a3672c99335b4f6c&pid=100623&rk=2&rkt=6&sd=222462213169&_trksid=p2047675.c100623.m-1

I remember reading good reviews on it. If you wanted to shoot soft lead like in the OP gas checks of some sort would be a good idea.

Mauser lover said:

I think this product has come up in a thread before...

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It has. Not just here, but all over the internet. This is not some brand new hot-off-the-press item. Buffalo Bore has been making it for years.

Ratshooter said:

have been loading this equivalent load for many years.

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You can even buy the bullets from Rim Rock if you like. But I very much doubt 6gr of Unique will push them to 1000 fps in a snub nose 38 though.

The FBI load can be done a heck of a lot cheaper, and just as well, as BB's overpriced ammo.



The bullet on the right came out of a snub-nose revolver with a 2.5" barrel at 945fps. No gas check, no leading.

Don

Paul Harrell tested some recently as well, with impressive results on his "meat target" which is supposed to simulate a live target.