Cost Effective source for lead casting?

Much of this assumes you're casting in bulk and only a few different bullets. I shoot commercial cast bullets in calibers (nominal) .309, .312, .358, .376, .401, .412, .427, .430, .452, .458, .476 and .501, with multiple variations of each. With some, such as the .430 and .452 varieties, there may be over a dozen variations. That's a lot of molds, a lot of equipment, a lot of supplies and a lot of work. With commercial bullets, if I want to try something, I buy a box and try them. I have yet to have a bullet I wanted to try that I couldn't buy.

jmorris said:

In any case if your time is valuable to you just buy loaded ammo, shoot, pack up and leave. Someone will come up behind you and pick up your brass and lead, you won’t be alone either. There are more folks that do just that, than not.

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Big difference there. I'm saving a lot of dollars on ammo. It costs me $7-$8/50rds of .44Spl, .44Mag or .45Colt, versus $30-$40 on the cheapest factory ammo. I spend an hour on my Dillons and I can shoot all day long. With casting bullets, there's a lot of work involved to save only pennies. I spend ten minutes online and I have bullets in a few days. It might be worth it to some folks to do all that to save $5 an hour, $10 or even $20, especially if they enjoy the process. Not to me.

D.B. Cooper said:

Reloading using store bought cast lead projectiles, I find I'm saving 40¢ per round, or a 66% reduction in cost. Over the next 6 weeks, I'll save enough money to cover the entire cost of the reloading equipment I bought. All for about 6 hours worth of my time. I find that to be an acceptable trade-off. Admittedly, I don't find the task of reloading ammo in my garage nearly as distasteful as that of digging in the dirt at the range.

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Exactly!

D.B. Cooper said:

It's not unlike the idea that there are some jobs some people won't do, no matter how much it pays. (And that job is different for everyone. For example, I teach high school, but many folks wouldn't do it for a million dollars. I wouldn't be a police officer for a million dollars, but I know people who love the job...etc. etc.)

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Very good comparison.

Big difference there. I'm saving a lot of dollars on ammo. It costs me $7-$8/50rds of .44Spl, .44Mag or .45Colt, versus $30-$40 on the cheapest factory ammo. I spend an hour on my Dillons and I can shoot all day long.

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I spend $30-40/1000, with the only thing I have to buy being powder and primers.

The casting setup I posted in #35 can keep up with most folks loading on a progressive press.

How do you figure that, primers alone are no less than $30/1000, usually closer to $35? Powder is going to be around $20 per 1000rds. So let's say it's more like $50 per 1000rds, assuming free lead. I pay about $140 with commercial bullets. Factory ammo would be $800. In 2hrs I save myself $660. How many hours do you spend saving that $90? One might conclude that handloading with commercially available bullets is a far better investment of time than casting. There's no way to justify the comment that, "...if your time is valuable to you just buy loaded ammo, shoot, pack up and leave" by suggesting that casting saves as much money per hour of labor as handloading.

Your setup is obviously not what the average (or even well above average) caster is going to have. In fact, I seriously doubt anyone other than a commercial caster would have that kind of automation. How many hours (plus fuel costs) would the average caster have invested in those 1000rds, including drive time, scrounging (or buying), processing, casting, sizing and lubing?

This is always my biggest complaint about these discussions. Casters always try to justify their effort financially but are completely unrealistic about the costs involved and the effort spent.

I have to say that in my 40 years of handloading and 30 or so casting that I have enjoyed every bit of it. The sad part is I don't get to do it as much as I would like lately mostly because the weather around here always seem to be crappy on the weekends and nice during the week when I'm working for the man. Finding lead for casting has never been an issue for me I know many can't say that but living in the rural area of NC it much easier to come by and having friends that cast an shoot together we have a network to gather as much as possible.

Often times you will find several of use together in one or the others shop making ingots or casting bullets or chatting about reloading and shooting over a pot of beans on a Saturday. I value my down time more than anything else and my wife can attest to when I haven't had any, so in reality the most valuable time I have is when I'm not getting paid one red cent but doing what I enjoy.

res45 i understand enjoying doing what makes you happy. I like to load to save money but then I farm and struggle to make a profit but I enjoy it. Cast away.

farmer23, I totally understand how much time running a farm takes an what a struggle it is to make ends meet. Growing up when I was out of school during the summer and not doing chores around the house I worked on several of the local farms usually started before the sun came up and quit when the day was done, whatever time that happen to be. I'm lucky in that I do my 40 hours at work and go home, have some family time with the wife and kids and piddle around out in my shop for an hour or two to unwind weather permitting as it's not heated or cooled, I hope to remedy that situation with a new building this coming spring just for my stuff.

It's kind of funny I overheard the wife today talking with one of her friends an she was telling her it suppose to be around 60 an sunny here on Saturday so Ronnie being me would get to go over to his friend house and cast some bullets or shoot some. I love that woman, she gets it.

Like I said, if you don't enjoy casting or have reasons beside cost to cast (ensuring supply, casting for something you cannot buy bullets for, etc.), it probably does not make sense to do so. If you do not cast, make sure you pile up plenty of bullets for the next panic.

D. B. Cooper,

First, you're on the wrong site for a serious discussion of casting. You are being given advice to discourage you by some guys who have never cast a bullet and will never cast a bullet. Go here http://castboolits.gunloads.com/ to learn. As for the cost, I can reload .38 and .45 ammo using my cast bullets for less than .22 rimfire. This isn't hard, and you don't have to scrounge thru the dirt to get your lead if you use your head. However, you are going to have to learn how to create alloys that are suitable for your intended purpose. Hope that helps.

Don

USSR said:

D. B. Cooper,

First, you're on the wrong site for a serious discussion of casting. You are being given advice to discourage you by some guys who have never cast a bullet and will never cast a bullet. Go here http://castboolits.gunloads.com/ to learn. As for the cost, I can reload .38 and .45 ammo using my cast bullets for less than .22 rimfire. This isn't hard, and you don't have to scrounge thru the dirt to get your lead if you use your head. However, you are going to have to learn how to create alloys that are suitable for your intended purpose. Hope that helps.

Don

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Like Don said, don't be dissuaded from casting. Costs are only a part of the equation. Sure it's great to save money, but this is a hobby. It's supposed to be fun! Figure out which steps in the process you enjoy and give it a try. If that means buying ingots and working from there, that's certainly a fine choice. Heck most of my casting lately has been keydriver slugs (the lowliest of casting lows lol).

USSR said:

First, you're on the wrong site for a serious discussion of casting. You are being given advice to discourage you by some guys who have never cast a bullet and will never cast a bullet. Go here http://castboolits.gunloads.com/ to learn. As for the cost, I can reload .38 and .45 ammo using my cast bullets for less than .22 rimfire. This isn't hard, and you don't have to scrounge thru the dirt to get your lead if you use your head. However, you are going to have to learn how to create alloys that are suitable for your intended purpose. Hope that helps.

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Yes, I'm sure you'll get objective opinions at cast boolits. We have some pretty hardcore casters here but we also have some INFORMED dissent. Have the dissenters said anything that is factually incorrect? Or do you just take issue because we don't drink the same Kool Aid? Should all casting discussions be strictly positive in nature?

Less than .22LR, sure, in terms of monetary costs. But how much time are you spending to do so? Sorry but if you guys are going to continue to justify it based on costs, then let's count ALL costs involved.

D.B. Cooper said:

Reloading using store bought cast lead projectiles, I find I'm saving 40¢ per round, or a 66% reduction in cost. Over the next 6 weeks, I'll save enough money to cover the entire cost of the reloading equipment I bought.

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Your math is flawed. A pound of lead contains 7000 grains. Divide 7000 by 240 yields 29 bullets per pound. Your lead, even delivered might be $4.30/lb. so 4.30 divided by 29----,,,, 14.827 per bullet.

Don't shoot handguns that much anymore.There was a time,they're bout all I shot.Have a bunch,most are only,very accurate....a few are tackdrivers.Indoor vented range,practically unlimited outdoor ranges.Lead is king IME for accuracy and economics when you step up to bullet traps.

Been casting for rifles almost as long as handguns?But it's only been in the last 10-15 years that the accuracy bug took hold.We have the capability/facilities to allllmost build from scratch.But for several good reasons,just not that interested in "gunsmithing".I generally am found shooting cheap to medium priced sporters.And they are all,CB rigs.The satisfaction of creating perfect cast rifle bullets,and shooting bragging groups with routine......single digit ES's.Reduced recoil.In more than a few cases,noticeably better terminal ballistics.Rarely need to clean barrel....Well,some get it,some don't?

I don't think there's any way in Heck,my shooting....and will ad machining skills,would be anywhere near where they are without living with the silver stream?Just sayin....carry on.

How do you figure that, primers alone are no less than $30/1000, usually closer to $35? Powder is going to be around $20 per 1000rds.

This is always my biggest complaint about these discussions. Casters always try to justify their effort financially but are completely unrealistic about the costs involved and the effort spent.

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Just last month Cabelas had S&B primers on sale for $20/1000 and a pound of TItegroup goes for $22 there at regular price. Let say I use 3.2 grains of it in my load that’s 3200 grains out of the 7000 that comes in the can or $10.06 worth of powder. As I have to pay tax on items I buy from there I have to factor that 8.25% rate in bringing the total to $32.59

I can get the components cheaper at times buying in bulk but I also have loads that use more powder, thus the range.

I could lie to folks here but that would be pointless and I am no good at lying to myself. I knew right from the start I didn’t want to go through all of the manual labor part of casting.

This was actually my first post here when I joined, the op was asking about a casting machine.

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/magma-engineering-master-caster.158478/#post-1944416

I built a bullet trap in my backyard to make it easier to recycle my lead.


When I get too old to bend over and pick them up I’ll build one like Jerry Miculek has. And add a burner to it.

Eggggzackly Jmorris;Laziness happens to be the true mother of invention.I am ranking in that dept.,haha.JB shooters can chase bug holes,all they want,period.Give me a well equipped machine shop and cast,every dang time.Pretty simple really....shoot,consider the outcome,go collect the lead,fine tune....repeat.

CraigC said:

Less than .22LR, sure, in terms of monetary costs. But how much time are you spending to do so? Sorry but if you guys are going to continue to justify it based on costs, then let's count ALL costs involved.

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Sorry Craig, but when I date a beautiful woman, I don't figure in the cost of my time while courting her. So, if you want to go this route of putting a dollar figure on a pleasurable activity, go for it. As for me, I'm no accountant.

Don

USSR said:

First, you're on the wrong site for a serious discussion of casting.

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Truer words...

USSR said:

Sorry Craig, but when I date a beautiful woman, I don't figure in the cost of my time while courting her.

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If you equate casting bullets to dating a beautiful woman, we will never see eye to eye on this.

USSR said:

So, if you want to go this route of putting a dollar figure on a pleasurable activity, go for it.

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Again, it may be pleasurable for you but it ain't for everybody. Don't you get that? Did you actually read my posts or just see enough to get your feelings hurt?

Craig,

You are the one who seems to have their panties in a wad. I'm just trying to help and encourage a guy who is thinking about casting bullets.

Don

Right you are, Anthony

D. B. Cooper,

Here is what I do. I buy my pure lead at the local scrap yard ($.80 a pound). Sources of nearly pure lead are typically lead pipe and lead sheeting. You are going to need to add some antimony and tin to the pure lead to come up with a good bullet casting alloy, so I buy linotype online (about $1.50 a pound) to obtain a high antimony and high tin alloy. You will need to add a little more tin to your alloy, so I look for solder online (about $6 a pound, but you use very little of it). With these 3 components (or clip-on wheel weights instead of linotype) you can make a suitable alloy for whatever purpose you have in mind. Hope that helps.

Don

Walkalong said:

C'mon guys, this is a thread about where to get lead, not whether or not anyone likes to cast or thinks it is worthwhile.

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Judging by posts by the OP, it's about both. One directly hinges upon the other.

My panties aren't in a bunch (is that High Road?). I'm not emotionally invested either way but I do see a lot of rhetoric from casters who can't seem to fathom that someone might not enjoy what they do. It is a point of fact that casting takes time, no getting around it. So time has to be allocated to do it, no getting around that. Different people value their time differently and have different amounts of it. If that is part of the decision-making process, which it should be, it should be part of the discussion. The casting enthusiasts seemingly can't handle that aspect of the conversation.

...I do see a lot of rhetoric from casters who can't seem to fathom that someone might not enjoy what they do. It is a point of fact that casting takes time, no getting around it.

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It’s a point of fact that everything we do takes time, no getting around it. Why more people buy ammunition than load their own.

There ya go - best lead place I know. Lots of great people working there. It's about 30 minute city driving from my house.

http://www.seafab.com/

CraigC said:

Judging by posts by the OP, it's about both. One directly hinges upon the other.

My panties aren't in a bunch (is that High Road?). I'm not emotionally invested either way but I do see a lot of rhetoric from casters who can't seem to fathom that someone might not enjoy what they do. It is a point of fact that casting takes time, no getting around it. So time has to be allocated to do it, no getting around that. Different people value their time differently and have different amounts of it. If that is part of the decision-making process, which it should be, it should be part of the discussion. The casting enthusiasts seemingly can't handle that aspect of the conversation.

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Then perhaps you can tell me, since you don't like casting and you add a cost of your time, how do you arrive at that cost? Do you use what you are paid at your regular work? If retired, a division of your retirement check, based on an 8 hour wage? Do you have a work at home business that you could be working on, so you can base this cost on what you could be making there? i'm not trying to be snarky, just genuinely interested in how you arrived at what seems like a very arbitrary number.

BTW, I think SeaFab ships, but I'm sure it isn't really cheap, but i can vouch for the very high quality of the product.

D.B. Cooper said:

So, I've been looking at buying hardball casting lead ingots for making my own projectiles, and it looks like this is a financially losing proposition. At the cost of lead online, before any shipping charges, it works out to about 86¢ per projectile, based on 240 grn projectiles. ($25 per 6 lb ingot) I can buy pre made and lubed cast bullets for about 15¢ per projectile.

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I don't cast yet, but it is something I have been looking into. I am probably not somebody that is going to drive around looking for lead, but will start looking around depending on where I am if I wanted to start casting. This was the same when I started reloading. I made the decision to start at some time, then I just slowly started collecting brass without any additional effort.

I'm not sure what Brinell hardness you are after, but an inexpensive start could be the bullet core lead sold by RMR which is 12 Brinnel. Based on your 240gr bullet weight:
$39 less 5% discount = $37.05 for 24lb of cores, shipping included. That is 168000gr of lead for a total of 700 240gr bullets. $37.05 for 700 bullets is about 5¢ per bullet. A little bit cheaper than 86¢ or 15 per bullet.

If I start casting I will probably start with something like this and then expand as I gain experience.