327 Federal is the best small revolver cartridge for defense

Status
Not open for further replies.
After more carefully considering the wording of the title of this thread I thought, hey wait a minute...I wouldn't shoot Federal Magnum in what I considered a "small" revolver. Of the three levels of 32 caliber cartridge guns I have, the 3" Ruger SP101 would be the smallest for Federal Magnum, which means it is not a pocket gun (small per se).
 
RealGun said:
After more carefully considering the wording of the title of this thread I thought, hey wait a minute...I wouldn't shoot Federal Magnum in what I considered a "small" revolver. Of the three levels of 32 caliber cartridge guns I have, the 3" Ruger SP101 would be the smallest for Federal Magnum, which means it is not a pocket gun (small per se).
Click to expand...

It's kind of rough because .327 is optimized for 3" and bigger barrels. It does OK in snubbie barrels, but still. The 'small' thing about it is that it does fit in J-frame-sized cylinders while maintaining the sixth shot.
 
Ohen Cepel said:
The 32 fam is great if you're into reloading.
Click to expand...
The family may be great, but from what I've been reading the .327FM presents problems not fully resolved by the available canister powders. It creates a really long and slender column of powder that makes consistent ignition challenging.
 
Madcap_Magician said:
It's kind of rough because .327 is optimized for 3" and bigger barrels. It does OK in snubbie barrels, but still. The 'small' thing about it is that it does fit in J-frame-sized cylinders while maintaining the sixth shot.
Click to expand...
I've read that the 85 grain Hydra Shok does approximately 1250 fps from the LCR. If so, that's better than just ok in my opinion.

Here's a review clocking the hydra Shok at over 1300fps. http://www.gunsandammo.com/reviews/review-ruger-lcr-327-federal-magnum/
 
The only way this thing works is if you are of the school who believe high velocity, bullet expansion, and muzzle energy are key to handgun stopping. A lot of us old geezers were caught up in that hype back in the days of the original SuperVel ammo. It was supposed to be the answer to law enforcement's dreams. After a few years and the data started coming in and many of us went back to big bores and heavy bullets.

As for a little pocket gun...I carried a Commander (the original alloy framed version) as my off duty weapon and plain clothes weapon through out my LEO career. I'm still carrying a 45 ACP some 30 years after retiring. Maybe there's something to that old saying about old dogs and new tricks. (smile)

Dave
 
ray15 said:
The family may be great, but from what I've been reading the .327FM presents problems not fully resolved by the available canister powders. It creates a really long and slender column of powder that makes consistent ignition challenging.
Click to expand...
Nah. I have shot a lot of 327 Federal Magnum and think I would have noticed ignition issues. I have dirty cases from higher end reloads but that's it. I have used AA#9 and Enforcer mostly, coupled with 95 or 100 grain lead and small rifle primers and gotten zero leading. They always go bang, and how. There may be issues with certain powders but not the ones I have used.
 
Glad they worked out for you. Have you chronographed the reloads? If so, what did the velocity spread look like? The choice of a large rifle primer seems interesting.
 
It's a good cartridge. I like it. I don't personally feel that any SD cartridge is "the best". 327 is one that I feel is effective and I feel comfortable with it.
Tallball
Click to expand...

I've been using the 327 Fed for some time and agree with the above statement. I reload so ammo cost is not a problem and you can shoot 5 different rounds in it; 32 S&W, 32 Long, 32 H&R Mag, 327 FED Mag, and even 32 Auto (with manual extraction).

I have 4 Rugers chambered for it and often carry my LCR for concealed carry with 100g Hornady XTP's over Lil' Gun or H110 at published fps of abt 1400-1500...6 rounds at 500 foot pounds energy vs. 9mm @ 360 and 38 Special @ 250. It's a fun round to shoot and has some serious power.

I, however, agree with the big bore folks and my number one favorite for serious concealed carry is 44 Specials w/ Gold Dots or XTP's at abt 900 fps in a S&W model 69 or 396 Night Guard.
 
ray15 said:
Glad they worked out for you. Have you chronographed the reloads? If so, what did the velocity spread look like? The choice of a large rifle primer seems interesting.
Click to expand...
I don't do velocity studies. My chrono is still in the box. I rely on handbook data and load to that. I shoot at 50 feet and free standing. I wrote small rifle primers, not large.
 
Were you to take it out of the box you could notice a lot more. I wrote large, and meant small, but that wasn't really the point.
 
Last edited:
ray15 said:
Were you to take it out of the box you could notice a lot more. I wrote large, and meant small, but that wasn't really the point.
Click to expand...
Oh, I don't care. At that distance, if a load shoots well, I'm good. I won't be off the reservation. I use the books and do just fine. Thanks though.
 
My grandfather carried a .32 sw long,so if a .32 was good enough for grandpa it is good enough for me.
 
RealGun said:
Nah. I have shot a lot of 327 Federal Magnum and think I would have noticed ignition issues. I have dirty cases from higher end reloads but that's it. I have used AA#9 and Enforcer mostly, coupled with 95 or 100 grain lead and small rifle primers and gotten zero leading. They always go bang, and how. There may be issues with certain powders but not the ones I have used.
Click to expand...
great! someone finally found a modern use for the remington 6 1/2 primer. a thinner cup with rem 7 1/2 power. should work great in handguns chambered in 327 mag.

exactly what primer are you using here, realgun?

murf
 
I'm waiting for S&W to add a 327 to their J frame offerings.

I missed the last run but I won't miss the next one.

We need another 632. Anybody home?
 
ray15 said:
The family may be great, but from what I've been reading the .327FM presents problems not fully resolved by the available canister powders. It creates a really long and slender column of powder that makes consistent ignition challenging.
Click to expand...

If that were true then the 30 carbine would have the same problem. I've loaded it with two different powders (2400 and #9) and never seen that. 1800 fps consistently is consistent enough for me. H110 has been the standard for that cartridge for a long time. Any of those three would work very well in a 327. I'm sure there are a few more.
 
Last edited:
murf said:
great! someone finally found a modern use for the remington 6 1/2 primer. a thinner cup with rem 7 1/2 power. should work great in handguns chambered in 327 mag.

exactly what primer are you using here, realgun?

murf
Click to expand...
Both CCI and Winchester.
 
RealGun said:
Both CCI and Winchester.
Click to expand...
cool. the hornady manual shows a winchester small rifle primer for their 30 carbine loads, the speer #14 shows either a cci 400, or 450 (magnum) primer for their 30 carbine loads. not saying you can substitute one for the other (please don't!), but the use of a small rifle primer in the 30 carbine validates your use of a small rifle primer in the 327 magnum, imo.

both the 30 carbine and the 327 mag are both long thin cartridges, have the same (almost) bullet diameter and have similar high max pressures (40,000 psi and 45,000 psi respectively). this might help with the reloading problems with the 327 magnum cartridge.

murf
 
murf said:
cool. the hornady manual shows a winchester small rifle primer for their 30 carbine loads, the speer #14 shows either a cci 400, or 450 (magnum) primer for their 30 carbine loads. not saying you can substitute one for the other (please don't!), but the use of a small rifle primer in the 30 carbine validates your use of a small rifle primer in the 327 magnum, imo.

both the 30 carbine and the 327 mag are both long thin cartridges, have the same (almost) bullet diameter and have similar high max pressures (40,000 psi and 45,000 psi respectively). this might help with the reloading problems with the 327 magnum cartridge.

murf
Click to expand...
p.s. this also might solve the mysterious velocity drops with increased powder charges (i've had this happen with stout charges of h110 in the 357 magnum and 44 magnum). a couple gunwriters have mentioned this in 327 magnum articles.
 
CoalTrain49 said:
If that were true then the 30 carbine would have the same problem. I've loaded it with two different powders (2400 and #9) and never seen that. 1800 fps consistently is consistent enough for me. H110 has been the standard for that cartridge for a long time. Any of those three would work very well in a 327. I'm sure there are a few more.
Click to expand...
It may appear similar, but it doesn't act like 30 carbine. From the article on reloading .327 magnum in Reloader 294 by Brian Pierce:
Brian Pierce said:
In previous experiences with the .327 Federal, many handloads and factory loads have given greater extreme spreads than desired. In testing early factory loads, some produced spreads up to 200 fps, while some handloads (now widely published) hover around 150 fps, both of which are unacceptable for achieving the utmost in accuracy. Additional experimenting has helped significantly lower velocity spreads and increase accuracy. In addition to using the expander ball size of .3085 inch, using a standard small pistol primer rather than a magnum is also beneficial. The powder charges are small enough that greater primer energy is not necessary. For example in compiling the powder charge weights of all 100-grain bullets used herein, the average was only 9.6 grains (with some being as low as 4.0 grains), which again does not require a great deal of primer energy to achieve proper ignition. All accompanying data was fired using the CCI 500 primers, which worked flawlessly and often cut the extreme spread figures approximately in half when compared with the same load that was shot with the CCI 550 or Federal 200. There are probably loads that prove to be an exception, but I did not discover them.
Click to expand...
There is also a reply from Pierce to a reader question about his issues achieving an acceptable extreme spread using 2400 in the .327 in the latest issue, Reloader 312:
Brian Pierce said:
Before proceeding, it should be noted that this cartridge has been challenging for small ammunition factories and handloaders alike. For example, in an effort to reduce the wild extreme spreads produced with conventional magnum revolver powders, and to better address the issues associated with a rather long powder column, Federal Cartridge had a specially formulated proprietary (noncanister) grade powder developed specifically for this cartridge, which is ignited with a comparatively hot Federal 200 primer. Federal’s powder choice has given it a distinct advantage when compared to what is available to handloaders. Nonetheless, several handloads produced equal and even better accuracy than all factory loads tested."
Click to expand...

Can the .327FM be reloaded? Certainly. But most of the published load data for this cartridge produces large velocity swings that impact accuracy. The use of the small rifle primer is consistent with the sort of primer trial-and-error that is required to isolate loads that perform like what you'd get from about any published .357 mag data. And Pierce notes that in his work with the cartridge that the best primer solution varied just by getting different batches of the primers utilized.

Reloaders always need to be prepared to test their loads and vary components to achieve the best results. With .327FM the need is unusually high, as the published load data is verified safe from a pressure standpoint but does not necessarily produce reloads that perform to the standards more easily achieved with other apparently similar cartridges.
 
I have gone through about every subcompact semi-auto pistol in 9mm and 40--Kahr, Keltec, Walther, Glock, S&W shield etc. But for the same situations I would carry these subcompacts, I now carry the Ruger LCR in 327. I carry IWB with all of these, but the LCR carries better for me. I like its power--I use 100 xtp handloads, small rifle primer, and Vihtavouri powder; I get 1300 fps out of the LCR. Although it has taken me a long time to shoot it well, I am just as proficient now, and I can shoot all six rounds at least as fast--but probably faster--than the Kahr PM9. The grip absorbs the recoil much better than my Kahr too. I never worry about jams, but I cannot reload as fast. And I kind of like the boom it makes, compared to the pop of the 9mm. I can't believe I am saying this, but that revolver is my EDC.
 
ray15 said:
The family may be great, but from what I've been reading the .327FM presents problems not fully resolved by the available canister powders. It creates a really long and slender column of powder that makes consistent ignition challenging.
Click to expand...

The testing done so far shows the 327 does clearly prefer some powders over others. I have tried most of the likely suspects and AA9 showed the most promise to date for higher velocity loads and Blue Dot worked very well for the mid-range stuff. I have three 327 magnums; GP100, Blackhawk, and a Henry rifle. For the faster loads I am casting and loading a 120 gas check bullet, AA9 powder, small rifle primer (mostly Winchester and some Federal-could not tell any difference), with a Federal case. I played with powder until the groups went round and then fine tuned OAL. The load I settled on does 1601 from the Blackhawk (5.5" barrel) with a SD of 8 fps. The rifle averaged 1966 with a SD of 9 fps.I have not had a chance to get numbers from the GP100 but I did shoot a quick 5 rounds @ 25 yards and it had 4 of the 5 touching leading me to believe the load will shoot well from the 4.2" GP as well. It has been very cold lately so I want to try these loads in more temperate weather to see what changes.
 
Saleen322 said:
The testing done so far shows the 327 does clearly prefer some powders over others. I have tried most of the likely suspects and AA9 showed the most promise to date for higher velocity loads and Blue Dot worked very well for the mid-range stuff. I have three 327 magnums; GP100, Blackhawk, and a Henry rifle. For the faster loads I am casting and loading a 120 gas check bullet, AA9 powder, small rifle primer (mostly Winchester and some Federal-could not tell any difference), with a Federal case. I played with powder until the groups went round and then fine tuned OAL. The load I settled on does 1601 from the Blackhawk (5.5" barrel) with a SD of 8 fps. The rifle averaged 1966 with a SD of 9 fps.I have not had a chance to get numbers from the GP100 but I did shoot a quick 5 rounds @ 25 yards and it had 4 of the 5 touching leading me to believe the load will shoot well from the 4.2" GP as well. It has been very cold lately so I want to try these loads in more temperate weather to see what changes.
Click to expand...
are you using small rifle primers in all your loads?

murf
 
Saleen322 said:
The testing done so far shows the 327 does clearly prefer some powders over others. I have tried most of the likely suspects and AA9 showed the most promise to date for higher velocity loads and Blue Dot worked very well for the mid-range stuff. I have three 327 magnums; GP100, Blackhawk, and a Henry rifle. For the faster loads I am casting and loading a 120 gas check bullet, AA9 powder, small rifle primer (mostly Winchester and some Federal-could not tell any difference), with a Federal case. I played with powder until the groups went round and then fine tuned OAL. The load I settled on does 1601 from the Blackhawk (5.5" barrel) with a SD of 8 fps. The rifle averaged 1966 with a SD of 9 fps.I have not had a chance to get numbers from the GP100 but I did shoot a quick 5 rounds @ 25 yards and it had 4 of the 5 touching leading me to believe the load will shoot well from the 4.2" GP as well. It has been very cold lately so I want to try these loads in more temperate weather to see what changes.
Click to expand...
Sounds like you've got some good loads worked up. I think the 327 is pretty picky regarding both powder and primer, but it appears the SRP is a good solution. Your optimization efforts appear very successful - I'm sure the first attempts did not compare well to your final product. It will be interesting to see if things change with the weather.

I like the .327 in concept, but I would have to give the ease of reloading award to more conventional alternatives like the 38 special or .357 magnum. Without the concerted effort you put into your 327 development a 38 or 357 will offer better results.
 
ray15 said:
It may appear similar, but it doesn't act like 30 carbine. From the article on reloading .327 magnum in Reloader 294 by Brian Pierce:

There is also a reply from Pierce to a reader question about his issues achieving an acceptable extreme spread using 2400 in the .327 in the latest issue, Reloader 312:


Can the .327FM be reloaded? Certainly. But most of the published load data for this cartridge produces large velocity swings that impact accuracy. The use of the small rifle primer is consistent with the sort of primer trial-and-error that is required to isolate loads that perform like what you'd get from about any published .357 mag data. And Pierce notes that in his work with the cartridge that the best primer solution varied just by getting different batches of the primers utilized.

Reloaders always need to be prepared to test their loads and vary components to achieve the best results. With .327FM the need is unusually high, as the published load data is verified safe from a pressure standpoint but does not necessarily produce reloads that perform to the standards more easily achieved with other apparently similar cartridges.
Click to expand...
i disagree with your basic idea here that reloaders can change components at random to get "best results". the general rule is: when any component is changed, work up the load, again, from the bottom of the reloading chart. the important components here are bullet and primer. and switching from a pistol primer to a rifle primer is a "no no". rifle primer cups are much thicker than a pistol cup and there is more priming compound in the rifle primer than the pistol primer.

i know of no published load data for the 327 federal magnum cartridge that uses small rifle primers. if someone has data using rifle primers, please share it with us. in the meantime, please stick within the confines of published load data.

murf
 
murf said:
are you using small rifle primers in all your loads?

murf
Click to expand...

I have had better results with small rifle primers pretty much across the board. I don't load too light in 327 magnums because all of the guns shoot 32 S&W Long very well and that is what I go to for a light load instead of loading a light 327. Shooting Times reported that Federal uses 205 rifle primers in their factory ammunition. Link to the article is below.

http://www.shootingtimes.com/ammo/ammunition_st_reloadingthe327_200902/
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

jski
  • Locked
S&W and Federal 327 Magnum
Replies
20
Views
2K
TTv2
TTv2
S
  • Locked
My thoughts on the .327 Federal Magnum
2
Replies
30
Views
11K
Jim March
J
A
  • Locked
Convert .32 H&R to .327 Federal Magnum - Ruger SP101
Replies
11
Views
3K
ahpd1992
A
A
  • Locked
The .327 Federal Magnum~?
2 3
Replies
55
Views
3K
GEM
G
Hokkmike
  • Locked
"I'm baaaack", says the .327 Federal.
2
Replies
27
Views
4K
Ed Ames
E
Back
Top