Factory ammo safe in .45-70 Contender pistol?

I have very little experience with the Contender, but I have shot some loads in .45-70 that I would not shoot in a trapdoor Springfield. I'll tell you this, if you do shoot heavy .45-70 handloads in a Contender, get rid of any rubber grips and use smooth walnut or other wood grips. Those rubber grips will tear your hand up!

Bob Wright

Like you said, there is a difference in loads for different firearms. A quick look in the Lyman 49th edition reveals that one should follow recommended loads for their particular application. (For 1886 Win. & 1895 Marlin)(Ruger No.1 & no.3) & T/C Contender! IMO I would load my own! It appears that the TC Contender is reloaded much lighter than the above mentioned applications.Though I do not own this 45/70, I would lean to the examples given in the book rather than taking a chance with factory loads in my T/C.
I have 45/410. .44 Rem. Mag. .357 Herrett, and .30/30 Herrett in T/C Contenders. Primarily reload .44 & .357 Herrett. Wildcats take time to build but are rewarding.Sorry, getting off topic. Yeah, roll your own! Start low, work your way up.....

I hear stories of people stretching frames, shooting hotter loads. So I'm a little leery of what I put in mine. I mostly shoot handloads, and if I shoot factory ammo, it's typically the "cowboy" ammo, which replicate black powder loads.

The 405 gr. HSM Cowboy loads do just under 1200 fps from my 14" Contender.

Using data in the "T/C Contender" section of the Sierra book, I am pushing a 300 gr. JHP at around 1450 fps.

And to be honest, that's about as hard as I care to push these. It's a bit of a handful. I'm good for maybe 10 to 15 rounds before I don't want to play any more.

If you have the T/C factory barrel with the built-in muzzle brake, it's probably going to be a little easier on the hand. I've got a plain barrel from SSK.

I picked up Dean Grinnell’s Book of the .45 some years ago. He has a fairly exhaustive treatment of shooting and loading the .45-70. Worth looking at.
At least one of the load manuals has the pertinent note that “at no point in this data is recoil not objectionable”.
An anecdote: i had super 16 barrel on my pistol frame. I was shooting handloads. 340 grain lead bullets over a charge of Reloader 7. It was near dusk and near hunting season. Muzzle flash was impressive as was the muzzle flip from recoil. During one break on line, the fellow next to me turned and said “what IS that?” So i told him. He looked at the the gun and shook his head commenting “ why don’t you just hit yourself with a hammer”.
Pete

Just don't. Contenders have a high bore axis, and a lot of tube to accelerate a bullet. That also means he gun accelerates rearward with recoil, and 45-70 is probably the worst recoiling round in a contender. Painful is an understatement with any medium loads. I recently touched off a hot one on a 12" and swore off the 45-70 for good. Factory loads are rough but not wristbreaking bad. If you MUST go 45-70 in a contender, get a 16" and a carbine stock for it.

One other item of note: the mass of all of the burning powder / gas adds to the felt recoil. And you recall Energy = MV^2. And as soon as the bullet uncorks from the barrel, you have the mass of that gas accelerating quite a bit faster than the bullet, if even for just a split second.

By squaring the velocity, that increase in gas velocity can become significant. So going to a more efficient cartridge can make a lot of difference in felt recoil. At least that's the theory.

Put to the test, I find a .45-70 with a 300 gr bullet loaded over 45-ish grains of powder recoils significantly harder than a .45 Colt pushing a 300 gr bullet at the same velocity, but only using 20-ish grains of a faster-burning powder.

But it's still fun to bring out the big boomer from time to time.

In case you need encouragement:



16" .45/.410
14" .45-70

Remington used to load rounds specifically for the Contender in .45-70, with a warning on the box that it was only for Contenders. Of course the anemic 'regular' loads are safe in a Contender, they are made to shoot in Trapdoor Springfields.

Garrett, that picture makes my brain hurt from the creation of new and improved profanity. At least it's on the newer frame...Not that the recoil is any different.

7-30 on the frame and 357 mag hotshot barrels. I have also had 44mag, 45auto, and 223 barrels. A friend has the 45-70 barrel and he wants to sell it. I’m just not a glutton for pain (unless I’m shooting his ammo)

From what I have seen, bottleneck rifle rounds are really good in a contender since they are pretty efficient as a rule. 45-70 is just too much for me.

Tiro Finale said:

This has been my experience, too. My .223 Rem barrel is a great blend of low recoil and high accuracy. It does bark pretty loud, though!

Click to expand...

Yeah, my 10" was too flashy and too loud. Im still looking for a suitable super 16. When i find one, guarantee that money will go elsewhere.

WestKentucky said:

From what I have seen, bottleneck rifle rounds are really good in a contender since they are pretty efficient as a rule.

Click to expand...

True enough. I just bought a 14” barrell chambered for the .30 Herrett. It has not arrived yet. I am looking forward to setting that up.
Pete

Google and buy the book(s) on loading for the contender. Usually some on eBay. One for small calibers, one for bigger.
Shy away from loads on the net. I shoot three contenders and equate them, as far as handgun calibers go, to Ruger Blackhawks. Trapdoor loads and somewhat more. Your hand is probAbly the limiting factor.
I worked up some loads years back for the 45/410 bull barrel using 2 1/2" .410 all brass shells, the Lyman 457124 375 grain bullet and Unique which was quite accurate and manageable. The combo barrel is notoriously inaccurate with anything above 45 Colt factory level loads, probably due to the long running start from case to rifling (3" 410 chamber).

One other idea. I have a couple boxes of 460 S and W brass which might just work with sensible loads. 444 marlin gave me some "everlasting" 410 shells.

45-70
Cal. .458
Neck dia. .480
Base .505
Rim .608
Rim thickness .070

.460 S&W

Cal. .452
Neck .478
Base .478
Rim .520
Thickness .059

I had an original Trapdoor rifle that had been cut down to carbine length. I couldn't shot an entire box of regular factory ammo at one time. Sold it.

Those pony soldiers must have been a lot hardier than me.

Can't imagine that recoil in a pistol.

he test, I find a .45-70 with a 300 gr bullet loaded over 45-ish grains of powder recoils significantly harder than a .45 Colt pushing a 300 gr bullet at the same velocity, but only using 20-ish grains of a faster-burning powder.

Click to expand...

This just caught my eye. I have a question about this. Where do you find such 45 Colt loads?
The 45/70 300 grain bullet maxes out at around 1900 FPS when fired from a Contender over 45 or so grains of powder.
A 300 grain bullet from a .45 Colt at 1900 FPS???? NOT. Not even from a Contender barrel. Top loads for a 300 grain bullet from a 44 magnum barrel run to 1400 FPS

Factory ammo is good to go but limited to no more than a 300 grain bullet for the 45/70 in a contender pistol. It is not recommended that you go with heavier bullets. This comes from a TC contender vendor. My brother bought one in 45/70 and fired a few boxes of factory ammo. Recoil is no worse than a 454 casull or a 500 smith and Wesson. TC used to sell a grip made with wood and rubber and the rubber really helped tame the recoil

Pete D. said:

This just caught my eye. I have a question about this. Where do you find such 45 Colt loads?
The 45/70 300 grain bullet maxes out at around 1900 FPS when fired from a Contender over 45 or so grains of powder.
A 300 grain bullet from a .45 Colt at 1900 FPS???? NOT. Not even from a Contender barrel. Top loads for a 300 grain bullet from a 44 magnum barrel run to 1400 FPS

Click to expand...

Point of clarification: both were pushed to the "same velocity", not max velocity. In this instance, both loss were shooting around the 1400 fps. mark. This was still below the max book load for .45 Colt by half a grain or so.

And different powders require more or less to be used depending on burn rate. So while there may be a powder that will produce 1900 fps, the one I used did not.

No need to go up to 1900 fps. when the comparison can be made at a more manageable velocity.

I purchased a Contender 'Hunter' package when they were first offered...

Came with sheepskin lined case, lighted reticle scope, and a 10" 'Hunter' barrel, with the T/C muzzle brake...

.45-70 factory 300gr loads were the lightest loads that gun ever saw...

I got a bee in my bonnet one time, and sold everything I had not fired in more than a year...

Still kicking myself for my stupidity...

WestKentucky said:

Just don't. Contenders have a high bore axis, and a lot of tube to accelerate a bullet. That also means he gun accelerates rearward with recoil, and 45-70 is probably the worst recoiling round in a contender. Painful is an understatement with any medium loads. I recently touched off a hot one on a 12" and swore off the 45-70 for good. Factory loads are rough but not wristbreaking bad. If you MUST go 45-70 in a contender, get a 16" and a carbine stock for it.

Click to expand...

I have to agree. My .45-70 Super 16 barrel hasn't been used in many years. 10 or 12 rounds max would be it in a session, as it's horrendous recoil stung my hand so viciously, I had it Magnaported right after it's first outing. Better afterward, but not nearly enough. Competitor grip. Gloves don't help much, either. 300 grain loads from Winchester and Remington were equally brutal, while 405 grain loads were downright pleasant. 300s to me feel exactly like a firecracker going off in your hand. (Still remember that from childhood) The barrel and forend sit in the safe-life's too short to dance with nasty weapons. I'll stick to the 14" .30-30 barrel, which I love.