More than 5 rds CCW = intent?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Philosophically, yes. Here in the real world, you're wrong.

Massad Ayoob has written of at least one case in which reloads introduced enough confusion into a homicide trial that the defendant went to prison, wrongly in Ayoob's opinion.

It is easily within the realm of possibility that a prosecutor's characterization of the use of reloads could result in a conviction; unlikely, and probably unjust, but definitely possible.

I think that's probably backwards. In the real world, I'm highly skeptical that any of this stuff will matter in an otherwise justified shoot. The stories of rogue prosecutors talking about evil reloads and the like are the extreme exception, not the norm.

Out of X shootings over the past 50 years, how many examples can you find? And in the ones that are cited, how many jurors say that reloads/caliber/punisher grips were the deciding factor that swung them?
 
Since this is a legal question that would involve case law to get an actual answer, rather than speculation, I've moved this here to Legal.
 
Since this is a legal question that would involve case law to get an actual answer, rather than speculation, I've moved this here to Legal.
Thank you. While I totally agree with what everyone is saying, I'd like to present my coworker with sound advice regarding the situation.
What do you all think if I was to ask them about it next time I go to use the range? Not mention names or anything, just politely ask about who does the training and what is being taught... Something like that..
 
Well...explain it to him like this. If carrying more than 5 rounds could be construed as intent, couldn't the act of carrying a gun be construed as intent as well?

The most unfortunate aspect of bad instruction on the use of force is that bad information can lead people to make decisions that may cost them their lives.
 
After more than fifty years in gun shops big and small, it isn't unusual to hear that a CCW instructor or police officer said something really strange or ridiculous. The police officers who are the self appointed "firearms experts" along with the retired police officers who have become CCW instructors are the worst. In my admittedly limited experience, the worst of the worst was a guy who retired from the computer crimes office of the Cincinnati Police Department, then became chief of a little sh**hole community surrounded by the city and then started a CCW instruction business. People started coming into the shop asking all sorts of strange questions and making really outrageous statements. A little questioning on our part revealed that all of these people had taken their CCW class from this guy. This armchair expert told his students, for example, 1) "any shooting further away than 7 feet could not be self defense and the shooter would be charged with murder;" 2) "police used to carry .38 special revolvers because they were 38 times more effective;" 3) "the .45 ACP was the best handgun because ACP stood for 'any cartridge pistol' and it would shoot all bullets;" and the one that really set us and lots of folks off, 4) "women shouldn't carry a firearm because they don't have the strength, discipline or temperament to use one." This guy is now an "expert" for one of those red-light, speed cam companies extorting money from folks. Real upstanding guy devoted to protecting and serving....
 
As a former NRA Instructor I have heard so many of these guys tell students complete garbage (and get paid for it...) And I heard even more of it working in gun shops and gun shows.
 
Massad Ayoob has written of at least one case in which reloads introduced enough confusion into a homicide trial that the defendant went to prison, wrongly in Ayoob's opinion.

I've heard Mr. Ayoob cited over and over but I really don't care what has to say about it. As far as I'm concerned, he's no different than the guy saying loading more than five rounds will get you in trouble--totally full of it.

Many people have asked to see an example of where a jury was convinced that a reload (or loading more than 5, etc.) was THE reason that a jury voted to convict instead of acquit. I haven't seen any.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top