Salt bath annealing?

I bought one of these kits awhile ago but haven't had the time to try it out due to school and more pressing handloading projects.
To me it seemed a better solution that having an open flame and needing to keep buying propane, and the case holder seems more conducive to consistency than holding a case freehand. I guess I will find out when I have time to try it out, but considering the price of brass for some calibers i have i will be very glad if this can effectively anneal the brass and give me a bit more case life.

Thank you very much for the follow up, @rayatphonix. This process is still intriguing to me. I would also limit it's use to less demanding calibers.

I find myself using larger brass lately. It doesn't fit in the Annealeez and I will need to buy a kit either way.

The Annealeez is ok, but I kind of feel like I could have built one better. But I didn't have too and it works all right.

I picked up salt bath annealing system.
Personally I think it works great.
The only drawback is rinsing and drying the brass.
I've only used it on 308 cases.
Temperature stays in the appropriate annealing range.
You have to pay attension to the bath level as it drops after a number of cases have been annealed as some of the salts stick to your cases.

Red Cent said:

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This is a PID. This plugs into the wall and you plug in your lead pot to the PID. A thermocouple plugs into the PID and is inserted into the lead pot. For those of us who are anal about making the perfect bullet, it is important to maintain a constant temperature of lead melt.
Looking into the salt bath, I found this (old) post, and the PID would work well in maintaining a safe temperature with the bath salt.
I am unable to run and gun/SASS these days, so I have started shooting "long distance" (up to 300 yards so far) with the old rifles. Some may have seen a picture of the C Sharps in 38-55. I do not plan to resize at all so the annealing process is not necessary for me. But if something changes I would use the salt bath with the PID.
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One can build a PID for about $50.00 or less unless you buy a "project box"

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Where are you finding PID controllers that cheap. I haven't purchased any in decades, and they were high dollar back then.

I am planning on getting a salt bath setup going in another month or so, one more joining the party LOL

I'm a metallurgist if it helps any...salt bath heat treatment is an old technique, we use it at my place in a process called "austempering" to create "austempered ductile iron". It's great stuff (austempering), it's a technical solution where you can have your cake and eat it too, rare in the engineering world. That's not what we're doing here though.

I haven't read the whole thread but yes, it's not table salt. There are about 11-tygillion (that's the technical term) types of salt to use for different applications. Max temperature can get well into the thousands with the right salt.

I'd have to try it out myself, but my metallurgist opinion is that this is certainly doable. My only concern would be brass chemical compatibility, but the samples coming out of the pot don't look like they've been altered too much, so on the surface it looks good.

On the bright side of things, it should be possible to throw one of those together for a couple hundred $. Might have to give it a shot.

I made mine myself and have about $100 invested. Plans I got were off of the 6.5 Creedmoor forum.

Blue,
Ebay.
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fr...3.TR11.TRC2.A0.H0.Xpid.TRS1&_nkw=pid&_sacat=0

Actually, I purchased all the items from Amazon.

I watched a video on you tube and purchased the one he uses. I believe I spent $60.00 or so. I did not get a project box.

It's funny how folks get comfortable with different risks, then perceive them to be LOWER risk than others, regardless of actual relative risk.

I've never done salt bath annealing for brass, but have used it for heat treating parts. I've done lead bath, torch (drum, pan, turntable, drill...), and induction for brass.

Personally, after over 15yrs working in and out of labs AND writing operational safety programs for production facilities, I'm FAR more comfortable with salt or lead bath annealing than I am with torch based annealing. Induction annealing is without question the safest method, as long as appropriate quality components are properly assembled (aka, your halfassed power supply doesn't catch fire).

I had a graduate professor who would demonstrate every year the ability to dip his hand into a beaker of concentrated sulfuric acid... Perfectly safe as long as his hands started dry and he wiped the acid away before washing (can also rinse with alcohol). Blows students minds when they see it because "acid is dangerous." Fire is one of the most dangerous, yet most under-feared risks on the face of the Earth. An electric smelting pot with a pure salt solution is FAR less dangerous than having an exposed flame on an automated benchtop machine present in a residence. An induction annealer is less dangerous still...

I ordered the Lee melting pot. Gonna give this a go. A pid isn't really a necessity at this point to me. It looks like a solution looking for a problem from my perspective.

@Nodakjohns , welcome to the forum!

While a controller may not be necessary, it may be a great deal easier to get precise annealing of the entire lot of brass. Please update this thread with any experiences with this process you may encounter.

Without doing a bit of my own research, a PID is just monitoring the temp isn't it? I have assumed the temp was regulated by the Lee lead pot and a thermocouple type thermometer was used to monitor the temp as a safety. A good dial thermometer could be used couldn't it?

I think the pid would monitor and control the temp. As is the Lee does it.

If memory serves, the Lee melting pot is only forward control - the adjustment knob controls the power provided to the coil, but does not read any temp. It’s like your stovetop, you tell it the power setting, and it pumps that power, regardless of temp.

The PID controller with a thermocouple gives feedback control, allowing temperature based control, precision being up to the quality of the controller, tuning, and thermocouple.

For salt bath annealing, I’d certainly want the controller - think about holding water at 190 degrees, anything over 32 is molten, but anything over 212 will vaporize, so you know NOTHING if you don’t have a means to measure the temp - only that it’s between 32 and 212 if it is liquid. The point of annealing is to promote consistency in neck tension, you’re already manually controlling hold time, which introduces variation, do you want to introduce variable temperature as well?

... my money is still being designated for induction annealing, no fire or salt for me...

I still watch this thread with interest.

I don't presently anneal anything because 1) my 223 brass is "lost to the weeds" before it has enough reloading cycles on it to need annealing and 2) my 5.7mm Johnson brass shows imminent head separation after the second firing which means I have more immediate problems with it beyond potential future neck splits (but that's a project for retirement).

Varminterror said:

If memory serves, the Lee melting pot is only forward control - the adjustment knob controls the power provided to the coil, but does not read any temp. It’s like your stovetop, you tell it the power setting, and it pumps that power, regardless of temp

... my money is still being designated for induction annealing, no fire or salt for me...

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Absolutely agree about induction.! I can't understand why there is even a conversation about anything else.

I built a pot and pid unit for salt bath annealing. It is the best thing since sliced bread!

pitbull10 said:

I built a pot and pid unit for salt bath annealing. It is the best thing since sliced bread!

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That's interesting, please explain by what means you measure case neck hardness before and after annealing. thanks.

I use targets, so I don't have to sacrifice any brass. And it's more fun!
What do you use?

Offfhand said:

Absolutely! I can't understand why there is even a conversation about anything else.

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Mostly funds, really. I like the AMP. But, I can afford the Annealeez.

The lee lead pot control actually does temperature, but the sensor is mounted in the control compartment, resulting in poor control. Sometimes makes a 50° swing. When using the pid control, you turn the lee control all the way up, and you plug the lee pot up to your pid controller. The pid control operates the solid state relay, keeping the heating element on, and can switch in one second pulses as it approaches setpoint, resulting in very close control. Mine keeps my lead pot within 2° to 5° of setpoint. Keeping it that close until I add new ingots. My control for my electric smoker keeps failing, I am going to set my lead pot control up to the smoker, of course with a different thermocouple.

PID controllers if properly tuned will hold a temp ±0.1°F or even less. I use to run them all the time when I worked. I had pressure equipment that was sensitive enough to pick up normal room temp swings of 2°F. The beauty of PID controller is that on startup it will apply full heat, shut off at some point before the setpoint is reached, the temp will continue to rise due to lag. If set properly you will only over shoot by a few degrees. It will apply heat as it is falling due to the delay time response. This is to minimize drop below setpoint, then take full control of the cycle. Since it know how the temp responds to change it will apply heat before the drift is too far off.

There are several ways to switch the power on/off, with the most simplest being the solid state relay. The most expensive is SCR's. There are a lots of uses for PID controllers in industries.

I'll just say the same thing abut this subject as I did in the "Depriming with air" thread. It makes something that is pretty simple more expensive and complicated.

It seems rather intuitive to me. Hold only the part of the case in a medium that is the precise temperature one wishes it to be. Instead of heating with a much higher temperature, that could harm the case, in one spot and have conduction move the heat to the shoulder in a meandering manner.

I do think a small pot of seven hundred degree liquid salt, overturned on the reloading bench, or any where, may be more hazardous than a torch that could be shut quickly off if knocked over. But there are nuances to every way. Variety is the spice, so to speak. What one loses in efficiency, one gains in precision.

Ive been Salt Bath Annealing for 4 months now. It works great, very versatile, fast. Use some common sense safety precautions.