Which model 375 H&H?

edwardware · Jan 20, 2018

I'm beginning the search for a .375 H&H rifle, and I'd like to gather some feedback from the experienced here. I want a hunting-weight rifle (not necessarily ultra-light). Heavy recoil doesn't worry me; I'll adapt.

My main question is: what class and/or brand of rifle I should be looking at. This is a luxury purchase, so I can spend as much as a used Kimber Talkeetna (~$1500), but do I need to? I want sub-MOA accuracy, not necessarily a name. I really don't want to spend $1000-$1500 and a year of load development only to conclude that I have a 2 MOA lemon.

I see Winchester 70s and CZs available for $800-$1000, Weatherbys available for $900-1200, and Kimbers and Sakos available for $1300-1500.

The CZ's front barrel lug worries me because the barrel isn't floated. The Ruger No 1s are pretty, but expensive and have a reputation for hit-or-miss accuracy. The Talkeetna is really nice, but do I need to spend that to get a good rifle?

So, if you have experience with more than one of these brands, or others, what do you suggest?

Tag: @H&Hhunter, @Robert, @MCMXI, @Nature Boy, @Gordon, @Offfhand

eastbank · Jan 20, 2018

I have used this CZ-550 in .375 H&H with a 3x9 leupold scope on 5 hunting trips to africa, shooting 61 animals and have not found it wanting in killing power or accuracy. with many loads going into MOA from a bench. eastbank.

Mn Fats · Jan 20, 2018

I really like the model 70 Alaskan. Beautiful rifle. That'd be my choice. Of course, you can't go wrong with cz, weatherby, or sako either. Kimber i've heard is hit or miss, but I have zero experience with them so take that with a grain of salt. Good luck.

H&Hhunter · Jan 20, 2018

I’d stay completely away from CZ’s. I don’t know enough about the Talkeetna to make an intelligent comment. I am extremely wary of Kimber rifles in general, but have heard good reports overall about the Talkeetna.

The new Model 70’s generally need some work before they shoot well. At a minimum they almost all need a bedding job and many need to be recrowned. Weatherby rifles are off the list for me as they are push feed and my experiences with the Mark V has been lack luster. The Sako 85 had some ejection issues, I don’t know if they’ve been fixed or not.

Ruger doesn’t build a .375H&H that I’d own. The number one is simply not consistently accurate enough to be in my safe not to mention I don’t have much use for a single shot rifle on DG.

That being said if I was in the market for a new .375H&H I’d think real hard about a M-70 knowing that it is going to have to be bedded. I’d look real hard at the Talkeetna and my third look would be at a Sako 85.

Gordon · Jan 20, 2018

I have seen these right around 1K$ else where. , they are pretty bomb proof and the barrels are decent and will probably be less than 1.5 MOA with good optics and a good shooter. The cross bolts and bedding can be perfected and a trigger tuned , and scope properly mounted for anthor $200 by a good smith. Hard to beat a VX3 Leupold 2-7 or 2-8 or 1.75-6 on that type of rifle., I prefer Game Reaper ring/mount systems if I am not going quick detach. Talleys are good also .
https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/2084_2108/products_id/90595

LoonWulf · Jan 20, 2018

H&Hhunter said:
I’d stay completely away from CZ’s

Why not the CZs?

edwardware · Jan 20, 2018

Great feedback so far! Let me add that I'm perfectly comfortable glass bedding the rifle, and would figure on hand tuning the trigger. I just don't want to have to buy a lathe to fix the action. . .

The Win M-70 is sounding good. What about an older one? Anything wrong with a 70's production? Any sour decades?

Dr.Rob · Jan 20, 2018

Savage made a nice rifle in .375. I don't really care for the factory muzzle brake but the rifle is built strong and the matte stainless finish is distinctive.

Robert · Jan 20, 2018

I love my M70 Safari Express. Like H&H said, it needed work, but now it is amazingly accurate. When I bought the rifle it wouldn't group for anything. Imagine shotgun pattern... So I took it to the local heavy gun smith who confirmed the bedding was essentially silly putty and the crown was not cut right. I had the action bedded and the crown cleaned up and now it is one of my most accurate rifles. I can hit an elk sized target center of mass at 500y.

My rifle weights 9-10 lbs and is easy to shoot from pretty much any position. Off the bench gets a bit old but other than that it is nice and easy.

LoonWulf · Jan 20, 2018

Dr.Rob said:
Savage made a nice rifle in .375. I don't really care for the factory muzzle brake but the rifle is built strong and the matte stainless finish is distinctive.

View attachment 775530

I was still in highschool (i think, might have just graduated) when they launched those. You have no idea how badly I wanted one to compliment my 7mm 110.

jmr40 · Jan 20, 2018

If I were in the market for a 375 H&H I'd look no further than Winchester. If I could live with the 375 Ruger I'd buy the Ruger African or Guide gun. To me a 375 screams for a CRF action. I have some push feed rifles and for most uses think they are just fine. But for hunting something where I could go from hunter to hunted I want a CRF rifle.

https://ruger.com/products/HawkeyeAfrican/models.html
https://ruger.com/products/guideGun/specSheets/47125.html

The 375 Ruger slightly beats the older H&H version but not enough to matter. But it fits in standard long action rifles without having to modify the action and magazine to work. This helps keep costs down. The Ruger version has been out long enough and is popular enough that finding ammo isn't that hard.

If you simply must have the H&H for nostalgic reasons I have no issue with that, I understand completely. But personally I'd really look hard at the Ruger offerings.

Riomouse911 · Jan 20, 2018

I like my CZ... accurate and reliable...but it's not a .375 it's a 6.5x55.

eastbank · Jan 20, 2018

the CZ- 550 has a very friendly trigger, having both regular and a set trigger that are easy as pie to adjust the way you like them. a cross bolt and barrel recoil lug with good bedding and very good express sights. solid stock, controlled feed and comes with very good steel solid rings and a good warrenty. and at a good price that competes with other big game rifles. I have carried the CZ in several African countries on five hunts many miles and was-am pleased with its total performance in some bad conditions, it never left me down and did what a big game rifle should do. I,m not saying other rifles would not do the same thing, I,m only saying I trusted the CZ -550 enough to use it on five hunts. eastbank.

Llama Bob · Jan 20, 2018

Based on your requirements the m70 Alaskan is the obvious choice. I'd say it's 95%+ to just shoot MOA or better. Not heavy not light.

I would buy new production. I think the forged CRF + anti-bind version of the action is the best to date and the FN barrels are good.

Llama Bob · Jan 20, 2018

H&Hhunter said:
The new Model 70’s generally need some work before they shoot well. At a minimum they almost all need a bedding job and many need to be recrowned.

I think this is way too pessimistic. The last 3 Portugal M70s I've had shot MOA or better off bags with essentially every hunting load I put in them. They were in 7mag, .264WM, and .375 H&H.

While the bedding on them is pretty minimal, I have NOT seen problems and would not re-bed any of them unless there was a reason.

Robert · Jan 20, 2018

Mine was a Carolina rifle. The bedding and the crown were total crap. A good bedding job won't hurt, and in my case made all the difference in the world. But, I'm glad the new ones are better.

MCMXI · Jan 20, 2018

These are among my favorite threads when we get to talking about the .375 H&H. I've made lots of posts about my Kimber Talkeetna and I can't imagine that there's a significantly better stainless and synthetic .375 H&H rifle out there. The rifle was very good from the factory with nothing that needed addressing but I wanted to customize it which is what I did. I would put the Caprivi and Talkeetna barrels up against any barrel on similarly priced or cheaper production rifles. This rifle will feed empty cases better than many rifles will feed loaded rounds.

H&Hhunter · Jan 20, 2018

Llama Bob said:
I think this is way too pessimistic. The last 3 Portugal M70s I've had shot MOA or better off bags with essentially every hunting load I put in them. They were in 7mag, .264WM, and .375 H&H.

While the bedding on them is pretty minimal, I have NOT seen problems and would not re-bed any of them unless there was a reason.

Based on my experience with four new model 70’s each one needed to be bed and have a recrown before they’d shoot to acceptable standards. 0ne .30-06, two Alaskans in .375 and Robert’s Safari in .375. Therefore my statement in being prepared to bed and crown a new M-70. If they’ve improved that’d be good news. And I’d bed one in .375H&H anyway as you are just begging for trouble down the road if you don’t with the minimal bedding they have from the factory.

H&Hhunter · Jan 20, 2018

MCMXI said:
These are among my favorite threads when we get to talking about the .375 H&H. I've made lots of posts about my Kimber Talkeetna and I can't imagine that there's a significantly better stainless and synthetic .375 H&H rifle out there. The rifle was very good from the factory with nothing that needed addressing but I wanted to customize it which is what I did. I would put the Caprivi and Talkeetna barrels up against any barrel on similarly priced or cheaper production rifles. This rifle will feed and eject empty cases better than many rifles will feed and eject loaded rounds.

View attachment 775602

View attachment 775603

The Talkeetna sure seems like a lot of rifle for the money. I need to play with one for a year or two and see how it holds up. My favorite .375 in the world is a New Haven stainless gun that has been restocked with something good like a McMilian cut to 22” or so, melded, fluted and has a finely tuned trigger.

The Talkeetna has a good chunk of that done from the factory. After getting burned on a couple of Kimber 84’s and knowing several guys who’ve had issues and the down right hostile reception given by Kimber when we tried to remedy the issues still have me severely gun shy when it comes to Kimber. I will say this though, I had a Hunter in 6.5 CM that was an absoloutle tack driver. I didn’t care for the ergonomics or the lack of shootability in the design in general with the Hunter, but that little devil would shoot tiny little groups off the bench.

I would consider giving Kimber another chance with a Talkeetna someday.

hillman23 · Jan 21, 2018

Has anyone had any experience with Montana's V2 in 375 H&H? I've only ever held one in a store once. Seemed a bit rough but that doesn't often tell the tale. On paper they check a lot of the boxes (controlled feed, good safety, reliable trigger design, fixed ejector) but I've no experience. I've heard some whispers of issues with reliable feeding with the Montana but I don't know. I've also heard about ejection issues with the 3 lug Sakos as well, but my AV chambered in 338 win mag is the smoothest cycling rifle I've ever handled. Safety isn't as good and they're push feeds but checking out older 2 lug Sako designs like the AV or L61R might worth your time.

Offfhand · Jan 21, 2018

The Winchester 70's in .375 H&H are almost always a safe bet and the older the better. So unless you need a .375 in a hurry, like going to Africa or Alaska next month, take your time and watch the used gun market, gun shows and auctions. They sometimes turn up at fair prices, like this pre-64 M-70 by Griffin & Howe I bought used. The side mounted G&H scope with Lyman Alaskan scope turned out to be a bonus.

H&Hhunter · Jan 21, 2018

Offfhand said:
The Winchester 70's in .375 H&H are almost always a safe bet and the older the better. So unless you need a .375 in a hurry, like going to Africa or Alaska next month, take your time and watch the used gun market, gun shows and auctions. They sometimes turn up at fair prices, like this pre-64 M-70 by Griffin & Howe I bought used. The side mounted G&H scope with Lyman Alaskan scope turned out to be a bonus.View attachment 775623 View attachment 775624

This ^^^^ is really good advice.

Gordon · Jan 21, 2018

Stay away from post 64 Win 70s unless controlled round feed tho. I left my .458 Win 70 push feed as a PH "tip" in ear;y 80s .

H&Hhunter · Jan 21, 2018

Yeah, if going the M-70 route you want either a pre 64 or a classic action which is a modern post 64 New Haven gun with a CRF (Controlled Round Feed) action or one of the South Carolina modern M-70's with a CRF action. My preference is for a New Haven gun simply because I am going to modify it most likely and I don't have the stomach to butcher a pre-64 Winchester.

edwardware · Jan 21, 2018

Thank you all very much for the feedback! Sounds like I need to start hunting for a pre-1964 or post-1992 (FN) Win M-70. Seems like if I stay away from the G-prefix serial numbers I'll avoid the sour vintages.

The Alaskan (with sights) and the Supergrade (without sights) look good. The Safari Express has the forward recoil lug, but perhaps they got it right. I see these new for $1100, so I'm sure I can find a deal.

Which model 375 H&H?

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