30-40 krag bolt

Status
Not open for further replies.
boom boom said:
The front sight on the Krag was dovetailed and soldered--very distinctive with a narrow sharp blade insert with an incredibly tiny pin retaining it. The Krag rifle rear sights as issued on them are picture below and carbines had shorter length slides and ladders but don't remember whether carbines got all five versions. The earliest sight is the 92 sight which had to be replaced due sighting errors attributed to abnormal cold weather when testing Krag Ammo for POI. Consequently, it is the most common sight on auction websites and cheapest.

The slides operate similar to Mauser tangent sight ladders. With the slide all the way to the rear (breech side) and the ladder down was for combat/close range/fast shooting. The 98 sights and 02 sights were more like British No. 1, Mk. 3 rifles (due to a different chief of ordnance) and the 1901 sights are similar to the later Springfield 03 sights.
Click to expand...
My barrel was turned down for the bayonet and machined for a front site (a giveaway that the conversion was done at Benincia and not Bubbas Gun Works). I have read on the Krag forums that the exact solder procedure is unknown now and cannot be successful my duplicated by modern technology! In any event, I like the '03 sight (especially with a hood). Another option was a winged M1 carbine-style band sight like they sell for the 10/22 lookalikes. These are held on with a set screw, and I would probably go that route if I did it again.
 
Bfh_auto said:
The carbine is a 94. When I looked closer, it was a collar with a dovetail machined into it and a setscrew on the bottom.
The 96 rifle has the correct sight according to the picture you posted, but the muzzle end of the sight is what raises. Almost like someone put it on backwards.
Click to expand...

From what I can tell from your pix, you have a commercial aftermarket front sight on the 94. I cannot tell from the pictures whether your 96 sight was installed backwards--it is relatively easy to unscrew and reorient sights (the sights for the Krags are interchangeable except for POI differences) (be very careful about stripping or losing these tiny screws--replacements are only available from S&S Firearms that I am aware--they have an obsolete screw thread). The pivot pin on the Krag 96 sights should be at the breech end but with the slide down, the front of the slide ladder has built in battle sights at the bore end of the barrel. When the ladder is raised, you use the slide for aimed fine sighting. There is a reason that the military adopted the 98, 01, and 02 sights for replacement--they are better sights.

Here is a picture with the sights correctly oriented with the bore end of the sight point up and the breech end of the barrel down. The mounting screw holes (some of the sights in the pictures are hiding the other mounting screw hole) are identical in distance between the models even though the bases fit differently on the barrel--the military issued different wooden handguards for each of the sight variants.
 

Attachments

  • Krag Sights.jpg
    Krag Sights.jpg
    336.6 KB · Views: 4
Th
boom boom said:
From what I can tell from your pix, you have a commercial aftermarket front sight on the 94. I cannot tell from the pictures whether your 96 sight was installed backwards--it is relatively easy to unscrew and reorient sights (the sights for the Krags are interchangeable except for POI differences) (be very careful about stripping or losing these tiny screws--replacements are only available from S&S Firearms that I am aware--they have an obsolete screw thread). The pivot pin on the Krag 96 sights should be at the breech end but with the slide down, the front of the slide ladder has built in battle sights at the bore end of the barrel. When the ladder is raised, you use the slide for aimed fine sighting. There is a reason that the military adopted the 98, 01, and 02 sights for replacement--they are better sights.

Here is a picture with the sights correctly oriented with the bore end of the sight point up and the breech end of the barrel down. The mounting screw holes (some of the sights in the pictures are hiding the other mounting screw hole) are identical in distance between the models even though the bases fit differently on the barrel--the military issued different wooden handguards for each of the sight variants.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the pic. It shows the rifle sights are correct.
The carbine was a poor attempt at making a sporter. The front sight is held by 2 screws and the rear screw on the rear sight is broken off. A collar was slid over the barrel with a set screw to hold a replacement was installed.
 
Bfh_auto said:
Th

Thanks for the pic. It shows the rifle sights are correct.
The carbine was a poor attempt at making a sporter. The front sight is held by 2 screws and the rear screw on the rear sight is broken off. A collar was slid over the barrel with a set screw to hold a replacement was installed.
Click to expand...

On the rear sight, that is not uncommon in Krags--the small screw heads separate on removal sometimes when frozen into place. I have seen fixes where the broken screw and all is removed via drilling out/extraction. Then the hole is tapped to a current common screw thread where screws are readily available. One other possible fix is to soft solder the rear sight--not sure if some of the specialized loctite products might also work. Have used them on rear Mauser sights on a m96 but those sight bases have greater surface area than the Krag base. I also suppose that you could pin the rear sight mount's backend in a similar fashion to AR gas blocks.

For the front sight, you could go to the 1903 type sight that Nightlord has in his picture and I suspect given the Benecia Armory stamps that his could be one. The NRA and DCM cut down long barrel rifles into ersatz carbines post WWI http://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=13105 and an old THR thread on these https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/30-40-krag-sporter.701634/

Forum posting from cmp on the reason for all of those rear sights for Krags.
http://forums.thecmp.org/archive/index.php/t-68811.html
 
boom boom said:
On the rear sight, that is not uncommon in Krags--the small screw heads separate on removal sometimes when frozen into place. I have seen fixes where the broken screw and all is removed via drilling out/extraction. Then the hole is tapped to a current common screw thread where screws are readily available. One other possible fix is to soft solder the rear sight--not sure if some of the specialized loctite products might also work. Have used them on rear Mauser sights on a m96 but those sight bases have greater surface area than the Krag base. I also suppose that you could pin the rear sight mount's backend in a similar fashion to AR gas blocks.

For the front sight, you could go to the 1903 type sight that Nightlord has in his picture and I suspect given the Benecia Armory stamps that his could be one. The NRA and DCM cut down long barrel rifles into ersatz carbines post WWI http://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=13105 and an old THR thread on these https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/30-40-krag-sporter.701634/

Forum posting from cmp on the reason for all of those rear sights for Krags.
http://forums.thecmp.org/archive/index.php/t-68811.html
Click to expand...
With the carbine being so butchered, I may just put a small rail where the rear sight should be. I will wait till I get time to work on it. The rifle is all there minus the bolt.
 
Bfh_auto said:
With the carbine being so butchered, I may just put a small rail where the rear sight should be. I will wait till I get time to work on it. The rifle is all there minus the bolt.
Click to expand...
Don't throw away the old sight and screw whatever you do. No more sights being made means prices have skyrocketed for those trying to restore old firearms.

Complete sights for Krags going for over $40 dollars (1901 and 02 sights are around double) and the screws are close to $5 each from the last I checked. Forgot to mention, if you have a C stamped on the ladder, you may have a true 96 carbine sight and mount that is worth about $70-100 by itself.
 
boom boom said:
Don't throw away the old sight and screw whatever you do. No more sights being made means prices have skyrocketed for those trying to restore old firearms.

Complete sights for Krags going for over $40 dollars (1901 and 02 sights are around double) and the screws are close to $5 each from the last I checked. Forgot to mention, if you have a C stamped on the ladder, you may have a true 96 carbine sight and mount that is worth about $70-100 by itself.
Click to expand...
The carbine has no rear sight. Front sight is similar to a Rem 700 sight. The outside of the barrel looks like someone left it in a wet gun sock. It also has a hand fitted Monte Carlo stock.
The rifle has the correct sights and stock. All it's missing is the bolt and sling.
Even though it won't be all original I don't want to modify it.
 
Bfh_auto said:
The carbine has no rear sight. Front sight is similar to a Rem 700 sight. The outside of the barrel looks like someone left it in a wet gun sock. It also has a hand fitted Monte Carlo stock.
The rifle has the correct sights and stock. All it's missing is the bolt and sling.
Even though it won't be all original I don't want to modify it.
Click to expand...

Sorry, misunderstood which rifle that you were talking about. On the carbine, it might be easier to get a new criterion barrel if you are mounting a scope and wanting to use it for hunting or simply restoring it to use iron sights for maximum accuracy--I believe these are in the white. Numrich (Gun Parts Corporation) also had replica barrels at one time which were blued (may be from Criterion for all I know). The only caveat is that you need a special receiver wrench that fits into the recesses of the krag receiver to remove the barrel. Numrich used to sell those too. With the right receiver wrench, they are fairly easy to rebarrel compared with other rifles.

A guy named 1bach sells old used Krag barrels and other parts from an apparently endless supply on Ebay. Bought a barrel from him a couple of years ago and I believe probably some other parts on a Krag full rifle restoration. He did fairly state the barrel's condition. Cut down barrels with sporters sights also pop up now and then and occasionally a 1903 barrel cutdown and rethreaded for Krags pops up but caveat emptor. My first Krag restoration was a cheap barrelled action with a worn out 30 inch barrel but all of the rest of the parts. Simple job to rebarrel and find a stock back then.
 
boom boom said:
Sorry, misunderstood which rifle that you were talking about. On the carbine, it might be easier to get a new criterion barrel if you are mounting a scope and wanting to use it for hunting or simply restoring it to use iron sights for maximum accuracy--I believe these are in the white. Numrich (Gun Parts Corporation) also had replica barrels at one time which were blued (may be from Criterion for all I know). The only caveat is that you need a special receiver wrench that fits into the recesses of the krag receiver to remove the barrel. Numrich used to sell those too. With the right receiver wrench, they are fairly easy to rebarrel compared with other rifles.

A guy named 1bach sells old used Krag barrels and other parts from an apparently endless supply on Ebay. Bought a barrel from him a couple of years ago and I believe probably some other parts on a Krag full rifle restoration. He did fairly state the barrel's condition. Cut down barrels with sporters sights also pop up now and then and occasionally a 1903 barrel cutdown and rethreaded for Krags pops up but caveat emptor. My first Krag restoration was a cheap barrelled action with a worn out 30 inch barrel but all of the rest of the parts. Simple job to rebarrel and find a stock back then.
Click to expand...
I will keep that in mind. The bore on both the rifle and carbine appear to be in excellent condition. I took 400 grit and pb blaster to the outside of the carbine and I would be ok with the results if it shoots good.
Is this supposed to be blued or rust browned? My dad has a sweat box I can use if it is supposed to be brown.
 
Bfh_auto said:
I will keep that in mind. The bore on both the rifle and carbine appear to be in excellent condition. I took 400 grit and pb blaster to the outside of the carbine and I would be ok with the results if it shoots good.
Is this supposed to be blued or rust browned? My dad has a sweat box I can use if it is supposed to be brown.
Click to expand...

Original finish was rust blue. Hot caustic bluing came around after the Krag was retired. Glad your bores are good--a lot of these Krags either have worn out bores or badly pitted ones from corrosive ammo.

Look up TinCan Bandit's rust bluing threads on the THR. He is the guy that can help you if you need an opinion/advice on rust bluing along with some others. I do know that on one of my Krags, the bluing is pretty deep colored and blackish in appearance. Pretty sure that it was rust blued and not caustic. Krags are pretty much made from ordinary carbon steel which should take the rust bluing well.
 
Tincanbandit truly does some beautiful work. His write-up is helpful like a true high road person.
 
First 4 shots @50yds from the rifle.
I loaded 3.7 cc of goex 2ffg and a 150 Berry's plated. This has to be the coolest rifle I have shot.
 

Attachments

  • IMG_20180106_173257.jpg
    IMG_20180106_173257.jpg
    48.2 KB · Views: 2
Bfh_auto said:
Hornady makes brass and I can buy 250 Berry's plated bullets for $26 I'm going to use the same Bluedot load that I use in my wife's 30-30.
Click to expand...
Thanks. I did not know that Hornady started on .30-40 Krag brass but given their military surplus line, it would make sense.

Nightlord,
There is a guy in Alaska (he has adverts in all of the gun mags) that makes inserts. http://mcace.com/adapters.htm He makes .30 Carbine adaptors for .30-06 and .308 already. He does have a machinist on staff. At one time, the original guy owning the company made custom jobs-heard that there was a change in ownership a few years back.

Also believe that there is a guy in Canada that does the same thing and found that guy's information on gunboards or castboolits forum.
 
boom boom said:
Thanks. I did not know that Hornady started on .30-40 Krag brass but given their military surplus line, it would make sense.

Nightlord,
There is a guy in Alaska (he has adverts in all of the gun mags) that makes inserts. http://mcace.com/adapters.htm He makes .30 Carbine adaptors for .30-06 and .308 already. He does have a machinist on staff. At one time, the original guy owning the company made custom jobs-heard that there was a change in ownership a few years back.

Also believe that there is a guy in Canada that does the same thing and found that guy's information on gunboards or castboolits forum.
Click to expand...
Surprisingly it was under $40 for 50 pieces.
 
Haven't had much time to shoot it, but that rusty carbine turned out okay. Sights are way out, but the 3 shots high and right seems promising.
 

Attachments

  • 15157147868641659696155.jpg
    15157147868641659696155.jpg
    91.3 KB · Views: 2
  • IMG_20180113_092203.jpg
    IMG_20180113_092203.jpg
    113.6 KB · Views: 4
Bfh_auto said:
Haven't had much time to shoot it, but that rusty carbine turned out okay. Sights are way out, but the 3 shots high and right seems promising.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the update. A lot of firearms may be rough on the outside but solid gold when shooting.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

Crowman
  • Locked
30-40 Krag Work
Replies
2
Views
418
Crowman
Crowman
C
  • Locked
Extending cut down Krag butt stock
Replies
5
Views
392
CoRifleman
C
Fatelvis
  • Locked
Any good 30-40 Krag loads?
Replies
2
Views
2K
Rodfac
Rodfac
Dr T
  • Locked
308 Win vs 30-40 Krag
Replies
20
Views
23K
Float Pilot
Float Pilot
K
  • Locked
30-40 krag variants and sporters
Replies
0
Views
802
kellylicon
K
Back
Top