Are the DA/SA pistols staging a comeback??

Proud Southern Son said:

I refer to them as DA/SA on most forums ...

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DA/SA is just fine. My point is they are not SA/DA.

JTQ said:

DA/SA is just fine. My point is they are not SA/DA.

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I suspect that people say it as SA/DA not in an attempt to describe the sequence of the action; instead because we typically sequence smallest to largest. I see it as more of a grammar thing than anything else.

SeanSw said:

I use the same pair on occasion but didn't realize a clip was available for the Pico, I'll have to check it out. Does that stick on type work very well? My Pico probably hasn't seen as many rounds as yours. How's it holding up? There were few positive reviews available when mine was purchased.

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The Clip has been working out on the Pico very well. I normally do not like IWB holsters, but the thin design of the Pico and the Clipdraw is really light and does not make the pants feel tight or unforgettable. Nor do I have to buy pants that are larger than I need to. Both my Pico's and the LCR9mm seem to be part of my regular range time guns. I enjoy shooting them. I will shoot other Pistols, but these all get regular weekly shooting time and drills. The Pico's have turned out to one of the most reliable firearms I have owned. I have yet to have one bad round out of either of them and thousands of rounds ammo down range. I purchased a lot of spare parts for the Pico's thinking I would need them with so many rounds being fired. Since the gun is Modular, many parts can easily be changed by the owner. However I have yet to need to do this.
I just placed the clipdraw on the LCR and surprisingly carries very nice, even though it weighs 17oz.


By the way, I just measured the trigger pull on the Pico's. One is 8.1 lbs and the other 8.4. My LCR was 8.4. My new LCR22.cal was 11.9. Some will say they have a heavy trigger. But the Pico's are smooth and deliberate. Same with the LCR. I have been shooting the 22.cal a lot and honestly do not really feel the heavier trigger pull. I guess it is what you get use to.

Note: The Pico's and the LCR 9mm guns are well broken in. Expect higher pull weights when brand new.
Measuring tool-Lyman Electronic

Pretty much a whole page of people bickering about what to call the gun vs talking about it's usage.

Typical internet!

I like to call them "TDA/SA/DC/DA" (Traditional Single-Action/Single-Action/De-Cock/Double-Action) because it most accurately describes the design of the firearm when employed tactically.

There I win.

Cooldill said:

Pretty much a whole page of people bickering about what to call the gun vs talking about it's usage.

Typical internet!

I like to call them "TDA/SA/DC/DA" (Traditional Single-Action/Single-Action/De-Cock/Double-Action) because it most accurately describes the design of the firearm when employed tactically.

There I win.

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Actually I have posted a number of times with usage. And with targets shot. These have been with quick fire center to mass point and shoot. I love shooting the pocket guns. Quickness to draw and accuracy. Drills, and more Drills. Picking the little gun up quickly from the table and double taps, to a top target and bottom target. Sometimes just emptying the magazine on two targets. Outdoor range I practice drawing from the carry position.
I do not see these post as bickering. Just folks sharing their feeling about triggers. Maybe some will be enlightened by other views.A lot of these post deal with safety and reality. Many from experienced shooters.
The OP opened with the question ". I have enjoyed this tread and the actually learned a little along the way. His question has been something I see what I think is coming to firearms and a great question.


Are the DA/SA pistols staging a comeback??

Jeb Stuart said:

Actually I have posted a number of times with usage. And with targets shot. These have been with quick fire center to mass point and shoot. I love shooting the pocket guns. Quickness to draw and accuracy. Drills, and more Drills. Picking the little gun up quickly from the table and double taps, to a top target and bottom target. Sometimes just emptying the magazine on two targets. Outdoor range I practice drawing from the carry position.
I do not see these post as bickering. Just folks sharing their feeling about triggers. Maybe some will be enlightened by other views.A lot of these post deal with safety and reality. Many from experienced shooters.
The OP opened with the question ". I have enjoyed this tread and the actually learned a little along the way. His question has been something I see what I think is coming to firearms and a great question.


Are the DA/SA pistols staging a comeback??

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Don't you mean TDA (Traditional Double Action)?

Would be nice to see more offerings in the DA/SA realm. As far as CA is concerned, we'll still have the older stuff as long as the manufacturers make them. The 3'rd gen S&W, Sigs and HK follow my general preference for revolvers. I don't own and likely won't own a striker fired pistol.

Whenever a striker gun is reviewed, a short reset is usually hailed a being the sign of a superior trigger design. If shooters really do "ride the reset" when shooting, why not just get a DA/SA setup? It always seemed to me that DA/SA rides the reset for you by automatically giving you the short trigger travel on follow up shots.

For a contrast, you might try to do this, unless already aware:
shoot about twenty rds. ---DA Only----through a Polish P-64 (smaller than the Polish P-83) or twenty DA only in a PPK/S.

After that, or twenty DA in my brother's very old Sig 225 (did German Polizei like this gun?... ), you will find the DA pull in more modern Sig 229s or 226s to be a good bit lighter than with those. We know about grip thickness, perceived recoil. But lots of guys can shoot Those guns very well.
Not kidding. I'm really new to learning a proper grip, tensing wrist, elbows (Not locking) and the DA is these Sigs is also very smooth.

In my CZ PO1, it's a lighter DA and smooth.
Maybe one reason many CZs are so popular is that one doesn't need as much discipline and self-training/ammo expenses, to be a decent shot with the lighter DA pull (if other CZ models are like mine)?

Proud Southern Son said:

I refer to them as DA/SA on most forums because, inevitably, calling them DA or TDA will require an explanation further down the line. In conversation, I just call them double action automatics, like we did in the eighties and nineties. That still often requires an explanation, especially if a younger shooter is involved.

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Never heard that but it makes sense. Really the only SA out there is a 1911 or similar action that requires the hammer to be fully cocked to be fired. Similar to the old Colt SAA revolver. If you can go either way just call it a DA, if not, DAO or SA. That should really throw a wrench in the CA approved list.

Back to the original question. I think that right now Beretta, Sig, and CZ are making a comeback with their particular models of DA pistols for different reasons.
Beretta benefits from the publicity of the military trials, as well as returning military who are familiar with it. Wilson Combat has really given them a shot, as well. The only thing that really kept them from doing better with civilian sakes is lack of supply from getting the new Tennessee factory up to speed.
Sig also benefitted from military usage, especially by some elite units. Their CPO program on one hand and the Legion series on the other have both been great marketing.
CZ seems to have found a niche in competition shooting. It’s reputation as a sort of hipster gun was already a good platform for popularity and they have been good at keeping up with demand.
All these designs also share a reputation for quality and reliability, and easily compete with any of the more modern designs in that respect. Weight and price, along with the aforementioned ease of use, are the only things they give up.
We’ll know if the DA pistol is truly making a comeback when a company like S&W or Ruger bring back some of their tried and true designs. I’d love to be able to go online and order a brand new 4506 or 1006.

I will agree totally that training and more training is essential for the person that decides to accept the responsibility to CCW or use any firearm. Training has to be consistent, and maintained constantly. And it gets expensive, time consuming. But it is a responsibility that a shooter must accept.
THE STRESS FACTOR FOR MANY IS NOT TAKEN INTO CONSIDERATION. As quoted by a poster:"For example, we know that even experienced, highly trained people tend to trigger check under stress. They don't squeeze the trigger with all their might, but they contact it. Very often this happens when drawing the gun on an unidentified subject. "I can't tell you how many officers I've met who've relayed stories of people they would have shot -- sometimes unjustifiably -- if their trigger had been a few pounds lighter and needed half as much movement to discharge. The lighter and shorter the trigger, especially in the absence of an engaged safety, the greater the likelihood of an accident".
So when is light and short, too light and short? I understand that it is easier to train someone for a shooting qualification with a light trigger and a short reset, but does that mean it is the safest?
I have been shooting for decades, and a range rat. Yes this is my hobby. However, I have trained to use the safety and glad I have. More and more I have been disenchanted with light Striker fired pistols. I recently (two Years ago) started training with a Ruger LCR. Yes, it was 9lbs of pull and took a lot of training to get competent shooting skills. However, I became use to the heavier trigger to the point, that I started distrusting light triggers. I recently started shooting a Ruger LCR22 which has a even stronger trigger at 11lbs. Some say they have a hard time. Funny, I do not even feel it. And now light triggers seem way too light for me to trust them.
I have been shooting a LC9s since they first came out. I was watching Hickcock45 talking about Striker fired triggers and how light they have become. He said, "Some like the LC9S even feel as light as a target pistol". I would agree. Mine is worn in and now at the last check only about 4lbs of pull. And that trigger will let go fast. For myself, I just do not trust it under stress. Thankfully it has a safety, which I have been trained with. Otherwise I would just sell the gun now. Actually just use it for range work to keep up with the memory/muscle skills of using a safety and not carry very often.
Each person has to decide what to carry. Physics do not lie. And most of us do not know how much stress it will be if we have to get serious and draw that gun. Shooting that revolver has a HARDER pull. Is it safer under stress? I would say yes.
I am not saying everyone needs to start shooting revolvers. But you have to completely know what you are getting into with any gun. Killing someone bad, or accidentally shooting a family member or even injuring yourself is a huge responsibility. You cannot take back the bullet. Choose wisely.
As Dirty Harry said "A man must know his limitations"

Cooldill said:

There is a TITANIC benefit in the first shot-consistant shot to shot shot of the striker guns when shot.

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Not if that first shot is discharged into your leg

I learned to shoot handguns with a DA revolver--a very good one (S&W 19) with a smooth DA trigger. I would rather just have a DAO than a DA/SA because then the trigger transition is a moot point. The closest thing I've found to it is the Sig DAK trigger, but the H&K LEM trigger, S&W 3rd gen DAO, and the Kahr long striker are reasonably similar.

For a couple of years my winter carry gun was a Sig P220 (45) with the DAK trigger and I loved that setup in terms of consistency, safety and shootability. If the P229 weren't such a fat, clunky pig I would probably be carrying one of those today.

Are they making a comeback? As far as I'm concerned they never went away.

OR... plasma rifles in the 40kw range

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Just what you see, pal.

Police departments know a lot about shooting under stress. Studies have disclosed that police, even after substantial training, still put some pressure on the trigger after unholstering their weapon. I see a lot of police surplus pistols that are DAO. That eliminates the light SA trigger altogether. Personally, I don't like DAO but I can understand why many departments went that way.

After four pages, I must ask what is the mystical trigger weight press in Lb/Oz and length of travel before actuation were unintentional discharge of the weapon is not an occurrence????????

That's a silly question. Obviously, unintentional discharges can occur with anything capable of being discharged!

Likelihood and frequency is what changes. Just because you never get to 0% doesn't mean there's no difference between 1% and .001%.

Ignition Override said:

For a contrast, you might try to do this, unless already aware:
shoot about twenty rds. ---DA Only----through a Polish P-64 (smaller than the Polish P-83) or twenty DA only in a PPK/S.

After that, or twenty DA in my brother's very old Sig 225 (did German Polizei like this gun?... ), you will find the DA pull in more modern Sig 229s or 226s to be a good bit lighter than with those. We know about grip thickness, perceived recoil. But lots of guys can shoot Those guns very well.
Not kidding. I'm really new to learning a proper grip, tensing wrist, elbows (Not locking) and the DA is these Sigs is also very smooth.

In my CZ PO1, it's a lighter DA and smooth.
Maybe one reason many CZs are so popular is that one doesn't need as much discipline and self-training/ammo expenses, to be a decent shot with the lighter DA pull (if other CZ models are like mine)?

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My P01 is the same, as are my other CZs.

ATLDave said:

That's a silly question. Obviously, unintentional discharges can occur with anything capable of being discharged!

Likelihood and frequency is what changes. Just because you never get to 0% doesn't mean there's no difference between 1% and .001%.

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No it is not a silly question. Lets use S&W Gen 3 DA/SA Semiautomatic Pistols. S&W came up with a standard trigger press weight and travel for firing DA and SA as part of the design criteria. Thus they were employing a standard in regards to human engineering studies or derived usage data from previous user related studies in other words feed back. They S&W did not pick out of thin air their manufacturing standard for DA&SA trigger press weights!

You asked what is the weight where unintentional discharges are "not an occurrence." There is no such weight, unless it is so great that human hands cannot apply that much force.

There's no reason to think there is a single "mystical weight" (to use your phrase). This is a continuum.

I have always been a DA/SA guy but the striker fired have their own merits also. I have one of each in my carry rotation. I shoot both of them well so it just depends on how I'm feeling. I prefer my DA/SA to be my bedside and safe gun as I have small children and they would somehow Houdini into the safe. Obvious benefit for the DA prevents any premature discharge under stress. Striker provides a consistent pull every time. To each their own. I'll always be a DA/SA guy, something nostalgic about it but I'll take a reliable striker any day to.

It is common sense. There is too light. And there is too short. Nothing mystical about it. Once again there is the stress factor. A that factor I would assume would be tremendous.Or to use a word that has been used on this thread "TITANIC". I doubt that even a heavy single action would even be noticeable if your life was threatened and you had to pull the trigger. On the flip side. One could very easily pull a light trigger just from the muscles tightening up in fear. And Of course the lighter the trigger the more susceptible to ND.

ATLDave said:

You asked what is the weight where unintentional discharges are "not an occurrence." There is no such weight, unless it is so great that human hands cannot apply that much force.
There's no reason to think there is a single "mystical weight" (to use your phrase). This is a continuum.

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That's the point I was making satirically!

Godsgunman said:

Obvious benefit for the DA prevents any premature discharge under stress. .

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How is that and at what point in reference to trigger movement or weight of press? Are we talking force acquired to discharge the weapon or that combined with length of trigger movement to actuate the firing sequence?

Hangingrock said:

Are we talking force acquired to discharge the weapon or that combined with length of trigger movement to actuate the firing sequence?

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Yes.