Deep cleaning an old gun (Astra 600)

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Redcoat3340

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I bought an Astra 600/43 that's probably never been cleaned (well, maybe in '44).

I'd like to get all the gunk out of it but am loath to disassemble it myself. I'm modestly handy but a complete takedown of this gun is not something I feel confident doing.

So, my options are???
1. Give it to my smith
2. Clean it without taking it down....and I need some suggestions here.
I could use a bunch of CLP or Birchwood Gun Scrubber, spay the heck out of it and then use a can or two of compressed air to blow it out.
??Find someone who clean them ultrasonically. I've never had that done, does it work?
Something else?

The trigger is awful. My first thought is because there's so much gunk caked on/in. If I clean it myself and the trigger doesn't improve then it goes to the smith for sure for a cleaning, polishing of the trigger parts and replacement of all the springs with a Wolff pack.

I suspect the smart thing is to smith it: have him clean it, replace the springs, do a bit of modest trigger work and call it good.
But I'm interested in other perspectives.
 
Well you're never going to clean the internals if you don't disassemble it. Before you take it to a smith peruse Youtube and other online sources to study the disassembly/reassembly of it- it may build your confidence and cause you to reconsider doing it yourself.

On the other hand, I don't take apart my Buckmark because it's a pain in the rear. And I once stupidly took apart the "contraption" in a Marlin Model 60- it took several months to get that back working (which is the single reason I like the 10/22 much better). All I do with the "contraption" now is spritz it with solvent, brush as well as I can, and hit it with the degreaser and oil it back up. This should've been the stopping point for me to begin with but the desire to clean every speck of carbon and gunk led me to a point that I couldn't manage. I felt a Redhawk pawl spring whizzing by my face once too. Had to replace that bugger. Found it when I bought a new home though.
 
The NRA Guide to Firearms Assembly has as a section on the Astra Models 400 and 600 Pistols. The 400 (Model of 1921) is in 9mm Largo (similar to our .38 ACP and .38 Super). The Model 600 in 9mm Parabellum was made by Spain for Germany in WWII is a scale model of the larger Model 400. It is unlocked blowback and the recoil spring is a monster that can bite the unwary disassembler.
I warn people that the disassembly instructions shown in the NRA Firearms Assembly manual often go beyond what is needed for routine cleaning and maintainance. A lot of detail is included in the manual but is only needed if necessary to replace broken parts. Some gun sub-assemblies should be treated as semi-permanent assemblies.*
I have used the aerosol spray method of cleaning assembled and partially disassembled guns but it must be done outdoors. Toothbrush, q-tips, and bamboo skewer will reach a lot of places that need cleaning and oiling, without requiring total disassembly.

_____________________
*(That is especially true of the Marlin Model 60 "contraption" mentioned by CLP. Numrich Gun Parts catalog calls it the "Action Assembly" aka "Sideplate Assembly". Two sideplates containing the fire control group (hammer, sear, disconnector, springs), feed throat, and ejector. I will only disassemble a Model 60 action assembly if the feed throat has worn out and has to be replaced.)
 
A friend told me he took down an Astra (400 or 600 I don't remember) and said he could never get one spring to go back in. Hammer spring I would say from his description as he said it was in the grip frame. It's still just a box of parts.
 
Say, mag1911, if your friend wants to unload that box of parts, I'm interested!

Western, there are disassembly demos on youtube, those should help. But really all I'd do if I were you (assuming only normal neglect and dirt, and no abuse) is field strip it, take off the wooden bits, and ultrasonic the bejeezus out of it. Get one of those ultrasonic contraptions from Midway or mebbe Harbor Freight. They're not that expensive and trust me, you'll find all sorts of uses for it.

Oh, and get a replacement recoil spring from Wolff Gunsprings if you plan to shoot the 600 more than occasionally.
 
I would suggest a can of brakeclean, but you'll have trouble re-oiling appropriately. You should ask your smith to teach you how to full-strip it.
 
The instructions here for cleaning with only partial disassembly are pretty reasonable. But I would suggest taking it to the gunsmith this time. My theory is "full disassembly and cleaning twice per century, whether it needs it or not." :)

After the gunsmith cleaning, if it seems gunked up again five years from now, that will be a good time for a cleaning with partial disassembly and spray out.
 
The Astras are OLD. I would expect a currently active general gunsmith to be looking in books and youtube just like you would. The main difference being he has a better assortment of tools.
 
Ive got an ultrasonic cleaner, it never occurred to me to try putting an assembled handgun in it. Now i gotta go try that, if it will fit.

Id probably go the smith route on this one. Like Jim said, he maybe watching videos, or reading a guide. Still those extra tools, and more experience(hopefully) may help him avoid issues that you or i would have.
 
The problem with "gunsmiths" is that most who claim to be are not. Vet yours carefully as I have seen far too many disasters perpetrated by so called pros, some of whom have national recognition.
 
... I'd like to get all the gunk out of it but am loath to disassemble it myself. I'm modestly handy but a complete takedown of this gun is not something I feel confident doing. ...
To me, this says it all.

IMO, you should find a decent local smith that groks such pistols ... and, later, share some pics with us & have a ball shooting that fine old handgun! :)

EDIT:

FWIW ... if it were my pistol, before attempting any detailed disassembly, I would start-off with giving it a long, patient soak (periodically agitated) in a mineral spirits bath. I have found that to sometimes free-up much/most of the petrified grease/oil/crap from the mechanism.
 
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Great advice here. Many thanks. Gonna give it a spray treatment and then maybe the mineral spirits treatment.

It will, however, go to the smith...I'll be calling him tomorrow.

And I'll try to get some pics posted tonight.
 
Say, mag1911, if your friend wants to unload that box of parts, I'm interested!

Western, there are disassembly demos on youtube, those should help. But really all I'd do if I were you (assuming only normal neglect and dirt, and no abuse) is field strip it, take off the wooden bits, and ultrasonic the bejeezus out of it. Get one of those ultrasonic contraptions from Midway or mebbe Harbor Freight. They're not that expensive and trust me, you'll find all sorts of uses for it.

Oh, and get a replacement recoil spring from Wolff Gunsprings if you plan to shoot the 600 more than occasionally.
I sent you a PM.
 
The Astras are OLD. I would expect a currently active general gunsmith to be looking in books and youtube just like you would.
Amen to that Jim. I took my 400 to a local smith and asked if he knew how to disassemble it. (Just curious, I already knew how.) His response?

"What the hell is it?. Never seen one of those."

To the OP. There is no reason to disassemble it beyond removing the slide and barrel. That is the tricky part! Just make sure you do it in a small room (bathroom or closet ) in case the barrel bushing gets away from you. That way you won't be searching in the weeds thirty feet away. Do not try to remove the hammer spring. The procedure required can be summed up in two words. The first one is "cluster" This spring rarely wears out anyway. It is very stiff and compresses very little during use. Think of it as like a valve spring in an engine.

The recoil spring simply MUST be replaced, at the minimum. If you pull it apart and the recoil spring is shorter than the slide, it is badly compressed and worn.

These pistols do not respond much to trigger work. They have horrible triggers compared to a good 1911 and there isn't much that can be done about.it. Attempting to lighten the pull by trimming the hammer spring is a recipe for trouble. That heavy spring helps the hammer to resist the initial movement of the slide. It is an important reason why the gun can handle a powerful round like the 9mm, with a blowback action.

There is a thread about 600s in the Autoloaders section. Check it out, lot of good info there.
 
I typically completely dismantle said filthy firearm. I soak all internal parts in simple green. ( old grease can become like cement ). I then inspect all parts for damage. If no damage /excessive wear I lubricate parts with Breakfree and reassemble. This will smooth up the works consideribly.
 
CAUTION: I have not confirmed these instructions.

Here is a video on how to take an A400 apart.


Here is how he puts it back together.


Part 2 is DIY nitre bluing.
 
There are a couple of tricks to the safe field stripping of these, and to fiddle-free reassembly. If I had a GoPro and knew how to post to youtube, it'd be a cinch. But failing that all I can do is write.

To field strip after confirming emptiness of chamber, magazine well and mind from distracting thoughts, cock the pistol and use the mag's base plate do press in the dookickey that surrounds the muzzle. Turn the knurled whatzit about 30 degrees. Now put the mag down, grab the pistol firmly in your weak hand and place the palm of your other hand over the muzzle while turning the knurl the remaining 60 degrees to free it. This also frees the recoil spring but you're ready for that, right? You'll catch the ejecta with the palm of your strong hand, which was pressing hard on the muzzle as you turned the knurl. Now after moving the slide an inch and a half or so to the rear and playing with the barrel's muzzle (note the grooves machined for the purpose), you'll find the sweet spot that allows the barrel to twist 90 degrees, clearing it from the frame lugs, allowing the slide/barrel assembly to come off to the front. On my 400, that sweet spot has just shy of 1 7/8 inches of barrel showing. The rest your 10 year-old grandson can figure out.

Replace the recoil spring as noted above. At this point, if dealing with a veteran that hasn't been loved since the 1930's, I'd remove the grip panels and dunk the works into an ultrasonic tub to give it a bath.

Reassembly: the only tricky part is getting the barrel "just so" in the slide, allowing the latter to slide all the way onto the frame: Insert barrel, lugs uppermost, into downside-up slide until breech meets ejection port. Twist barrel 90 deg. (it will only go one way) so that the lugs disappear. Now turn the assembly over so you're viewing the slide from the side. Go ahead and mount it onto the frame, but only a couple of inches, not as far as it will go. Now viewing the whole thing from the side, note that the barrel seems to be at angle to the slide rails; it's not parallel. Twist the barrel until the breech rises into the slide, then push the whole thing on a bit more. Viewing through the ejection port, you want the point where the two loading ramps are just about lined up. You may need to jiggle-twist the barrel to get it there. Now slowly move slide back and forth while twisting the barrel so that the loading ramps may make mechanical love. There's that sweet spot which must be felt, you'll know it when the barrel reaches climax.

At last! Push slide forward until it stops. Insert brand-new recoil spring and I'll let your grandson take over now, as I'm tired of typing.
 
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Here's a little trick to help with disassembly. After the bushing and recoil spring are off the gun, run the slide all the way to the rear, then ease it forward while applying the safety at the same time. the safety will ease into the "on" position. This positions the slide in the correct spot so you can turn the barrel 90 degrees counterclockwise. push the safety off and the slide and barrel can be removed
 
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