327 Federal is the best small revolver cartridge for defense

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i disagree with your basic idea here that reloaders can change components at random to get "best results". the general rule is: when any component is changed, work up the load, again, from the bottom of the reloading chart. the important components here are bullet and primer. and switching from a pistol primer to a rifle primer is a "no no". rifle primer cups are much thicker than a pistol cup and there is more priming compound in the rifle primer than the pistol primer.

i know of no published load data for the 327 federal magnum cartridge that uses small rifle primers. if someone has data using rifle primers, please share it with us. in the meantime, please stick within the confines of published load data.

murf
You need to own the Speer manual, by a division of ATK that includes Federal. It clearly states use of small rifle primers due to high pressure. You have been asking leading questions about primers here, drawing us into this web, and I submit that you are just wrong.
 
Sounds like you've got some good loads worked up. I think the 327 is pretty picky regarding both powder and primer, but it appears the SRP is a good solution. Your optimization efforts appear very successful - I'm sure the first attempts did not compare well to your final product. It will be interesting to see if things change with the weather.......

That is pretty much what I found. I know this list is not all inclusive but I know I tried 2400, H110, 1680, Power Pistol, Lil' Gun, 5744, etc. Some did better than others but AA9 seemed to be the most consistent.
 
.327 seems appealing to me for the 6th round, but 357 magnum is such a legendary round I'm happy to take the reduction in capacity.

I've finally embraced reloading so I suppose 327 is back on the menu, but I still just don't know. I'm solidly in the school of thought that velocity diminishes, mass does not, so if calculated force is equal the larger mass projectile will show greater terminal effect. For that reason I suspect I'll always prefer 158gr or even 180gr 357 magnum for self defense.

I use an SP101 to make 357 practical, those scandium frames might accept the cartridges but I cannot accept firing the cartridges from such a light frame.
 
You need to own the Speer manual, by a division of ATK that includes Federal. It clearly states use of small rifle primers due to high pressure. You have been asking leading questions about primers here, drawing us into this web, and I submit that you are just wrong.
yes i have been asking questions about the primers. glad you noticed. i do own a speer manual. it is the number 14 one and doesn't have 327 federal magnum data. all the load data for this cartridge i found on the web use small pistol primers. brian pearce, the writer for handloader magazine, shows small pistol primers in his data.

there are a lot of very handload savvy people around that do not use rifle primers for this application. plus, there is an issue with some powders showing lower velocity with an increase in powder charge when using pistol primers.

so, i don't care if you think i'm wrong. and thank you for your response.

murf
 
<snip> plus, there is an issue with some powders showing lower velocity with an increase in powder charge when using pistol primers.
murf
I was not able to make sense of that statement. This wouldn't be the first time a mention of 327 went off in the weeds debating type of primers. I think the context for use of rifle primers is only when the pressure level climbs above a certain threshold. Aside from being well advised to follow the manuals, one should be especially careful with all the elements, when at or near max loads. It is not a good time to be cynical about the type of primers needed or to feel somehow qualified to dismiss that concern.

Actually, the 327 Fed Mag section of the Speer manual #14 is a downloadable update.
 
I was not able to make sense of that statement. This wouldn't be the first time a mention of 327 went off in the weeds debating type of primers. I think the context for use of rifle primers is only when the pressure level climbs above a certain threshold. Aside from being well advised to follow the manuals, one should be especially careful with all the elements, when at or near max loads. It is not a good time to be cynical about the type of primers needed or to feel somehow qualified to dismiss that concern.

Actually, the 327 Fed Mag section of the Speer manual #14 is a downloadable update.
totally agree with you here. thanks for the manual update.

murf
 
I was not able to make sense of that statement. This wouldn't be the first time a mention of 327 went off in the weeds debating type of primers. I think the context for use of rifle primers is only when the pressure level climbs above a certain threshold. Aside from being well advised to follow the manuals, one should be especially careful with all the elements, when at or near max loads. It is not a good time to be cynical about the type of primers needed or to feel somehow qualified to dismiss that concern.

Actually, the 327 Fed Mag section of the Speer manual #14 is a downloadable update.
just an fyi, i downloaded the new speer #15 data on the 327 federal magnum. speer uses fed 200 primers which are small pistol magnum primers.

the confusion continues.

murf
 
just an fyi, i downloaded the new speer #15 data on the 327 federal magnum. speer uses fed 200 primers which are small pistol magnum primers.

the confusion continues.

murf
It is true though that my copy of a few years ago does say small rifle. Listing use of small pistol magnum primers would be quite a retraction from this statement copied from the Copyright 2012 supplement download for 327 Federal Magnum.

"Special Note Regarding Primers: Due to the high operating pressures, factory ammo for the 327 Federal uses small rifle primers to prevent primer flowback. These handloads were developed with Federal #205 small rifle primers. However, small rifle magnum primers are neither required nor recommended."

I sent Speer an inquiry about whether the current online data is an oversight or deliberate change.
 
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Here is a loading data page using Federal 205 primers (small rifle)

https://www.loaddata.com/Cartridge/327-Federal-Magnum-Using-Hornady-Bullets/6882

Of course, that doesn't mean you should use small rifle primers with other powders and bullets.
When you select the notes link, it quotes Brian Pearce suggesting that extreme spreads are reduced using standard small pistol primers (not magnum). I think that overlooks the goal of having a harder cup, so using Federal primers at all is just not the best option.
 
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i disagree with your basic idea here that reloaders can change components at random to get "best results". the general rule is: when any component is changed, work up the load, again, from the bottom of the reloading chart. the important components here are bullet and primer. and switching from a pistol primer to a rifle primer is a "no no". rifle primer cups are much thicker than a pistol cup and there is more priming compound in the rifle primer than the pistol primer.

i know of no published load data for the 327 federal magnum cartridge that uses small rifle primers. if someone has data using rifle primers, please share it with us. in the meantime, please stick within the confines of published load data.
This is just semantics. There are many primers you might use with the 327FM cartridge. They don't all work identically. One is going to work the best. It generally pays off with the cartridge to try your options. Don't read more into my comments than that.

I have never used a SRP in a pistol cartridge. It was others that mentioned their use. I do understand the differences in primers and their affect on chamber pressures.
 
I have never used a SRP in a pistol cartridge. It was others that mentioned their use. I do understand the differences in primers and their affect on chamber pressures.

I haven't had much experience with reloading, but a long time ago I reloaded for a Freedom Arms 454 Casull.

I used FA's data and brass as there weren't many alternatives.

The data called for SRP's. I can't remember whether they were magnum or standard. I used CCI.
 
I haven't had much experience with reloading, but a long time ago I reloaded for a Freedom Arms 454 Casull.

I used FA's data and brass as there weren't many alternatives.

The data called for SRP's. I can't remember whether they were magnum or standard. I used CCI.
That's not surprising at all, considering the 454 Casull's rifle-like 55,000psi chamber pressure limit. The .327FM also has an usually high pressure limit of 45,000psi, making the use of the thicker SRP unsurprising. The SRP may also be a bit 'hotter', aiding ignition.

The general description small pistol primer or small rifle primer are fairly nominal terms. Each makers' products of any type may differ from each other, and may vary in characteristics over time. Published pistol data does not necessarily have to use a pistol primer, only be tested safe relative to the max chamber pressure limit of the cartridge in question.
 
I haven't had much experience with reloading, but a long time ago I reloaded for a Freedom Arms 454 Casull.

I used FA's data and brass as there weren't many alternatives.

The data called for SRP's. I can't remember whether they were magnum or standard. I used CCI.
seems like the industry is changing its mind on which primer to use for the 327 federal magnum cartridge. i can't wait for realgun's response from speer.

back in the day, the 454 casull cartridge used a large pistol primer. there were problems with primer flow at top pressures. the industry changed the casull to a small rifle primer and the problem went away.

i haven't heard of primer flow issues with the 327fm cartridge other than the caution stated in the speer supliment in realgun's post. probably not an issue until pressures get close to max (45,000 psi).

murf
 
<snip>

i haven't heard of primer flow issues with the 327fm cartridge other than the caution stated in the speer supliment in realgun's post. probably not an issue until pressures get close to max (45,000 psi).

murf

Specifying a primer would have to cover the max load. One could use a lesser primer, if knowing the magic number, where pressure is less of a concern, and the person was able to certify that the load was indeed a certain pressure level. Who gets to make that call?
 
i know of no published load data for the 327 federal magnum cartridge that uses small rifle primers. if someone has data using rifle primers, please share it with us. in the meantime, please stick within the confines of published load data.

Hornady 9th addition load data uses Federal 205 which is a small rifle primer. Did you mean small pistol or small mag rifle? Small magnum rifle primers were developed for AR's and M1 carbines with harder cases to prevent slam fires. As far as I know only Remington and CCI make them. I wouldn't load 327 with anything but small rifle primers. I'm not sure where all the confusion is coming from.

Federal Cartridge had a specially formulated proprietary (noncanister) grade powder developed specifically for this cartridge, which is ignited with a comparatively hot Federal 200 primer.

Because no one really knows what powder Federal is using why would anyone be attempting to load 327 with small magnum pistol primers? Sounds like a bunch marketing mumbo jumbo to sell ammo. I wonder if that's ever happened before.;) Just about any pistol or small rifle can be loaded with good results using regular primers. A good example of that is 357 mag.

327 Federal isn't any different than any other cartridge. If it has more or less the same capacity, dimension and pressure requirements as another cartridge it's performance will be about the same using like components. If I were working up a load for 327 I would start with #9 and regular small rifle primers, as Saleen suggested. Not based on his work but what I know about loading 30 carbine. AA9 is an excellent 30 carb powder and it works just fine with SR primers.
 
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o The 327 Federal is a 21st century design and operates at higher pressure than other magnum revolver cartridges (e.g 357, 41, 44 Magnum). About 9000-10000 PSI higher.

Newer doesn't necessarily mean better.
o The 327 Federal is new enough that no older, weaker guns need to be considered by ammo manufacturers.
Okay. But a handloader can match his loads to his gun -- for example, I can shoot stiffer loads in my Ruger Blackhawk .45 Colt than in my Colt New Service.
o Being smaller in diameter, most guns can hold an additional round. For example, J frames and LCRs chambered in 327 Fed hold 6 rather than 5 rounds of 38/357.
My Colt Detective Special holds six rounds of .38 Special.
o Although 38/357 guns shoot a larger diameter bullet, it's not that much larger (.357" vs .31") and, in general 327 Federal's slightly lighter rounds move at a higher velocity and are therefore more likely to expand.

The key is not diameter, but area -- and that jump from .31 to .357 is a significant increase in area.

And bullets are designed for .38 Specials expand very well, as do those for the .357.
o Although high end 357 Magnum ammo can generate higher muzzle energies, the 327 Federal SD loads, with their higher pressure and higher velocity are equal to most 357 Magnum defense loads from short barrelled guns. I'd give 357 magnum an edge in SD against bears and such due to higher power, but typically reasonable 4 legged defense guns are bigger than what people want to carry concealed in town. Plus few can shoot the high end 357 magnums in a snub well.
Agreed -- most .357 snubbies are loaded with .38 Special for that very reason.
o The 327 Federal gun can also shoot 32 H&R Magnum for people who want less recoil and noise in a SD gun, and can shoot 32 Long for practice. The existence of a lower powered option is an important advantage shared with 357 Magnums, but absent in the 9mm world.
And you can shoot .38 Special in your .357 -- no special advantage to the .327 there.
o Ammo, at least around here, is becoming more available and I'm finding at least some 327 Federal loads available in most LGS's.
But not as popular as .38 Specials.
 
Speer responded to my inquiry stating that their 200 "small pistol magnum" primer was used to test the loads. I am skeptical about script type information coming from front line customer service, but it is not important to me, since I am using Brian Pearce's load data and following his use of CCI 500 Small pistol primers. I am actually using Winchester SP currently but will avoid Federals for this pressure level. It is worth noting though that light strikes can often be cured by using the softer cup of the Federal small pistol (not magnum) primer. The thing is though that Ruger stock main springs are so stout that use of Federals should only be an issue when messing with the main springs, trying to make a Ruger into something it isn't..
 
OP, apparently don't you read much on this forum, the 9mm is the only round you need! It defeats body armor and probably tank armor, is faster than Superman who is faster than a speeding bullet, will put down angry bears and you don't even have to shoot bad guys with it, just yell "I have a 9 fool". They will lay down and surrender because they know that a hit on their pinky finger will likely result in that arm being ripped from their body. :)
 
Speer responded to my inquiry stating that their 200 "small pistol magnum" primer was used to test the loads. I am skeptical about script type information coming from front line customer service, but it is not important to me, since I am using Brian Pearce's load data and following his use of CCI 500 Small pistol primers. I am actually using Winchester SP currently but will avoid Federals for this pressure level. It is worth noting though that light strikes can often be cured by using the softer cup of the Federal small pistol (not magnum) primer. The thing is though that Ruger stock main springs are so stout that use of Federals should only be an issue when messing with the main springs, trying to make a Ruger into something it isn't..
sounds like the 327 fm still isn't quite sorted out yet. speer uses magnum pistol primers, b. pearce is using regular pistol primers, federal is using small rifle primers in its commercial loadings, hogdon is using small pistol magnums, alliant is using regular small pistol primers. regular small pistol primers seems the way to go here.

much ado about nothing, i guess.

murf
 
Well, just like with the .410 shotgun and .22Hornet, it took powder manufacturers 60-70yrs to come up with the ideal powder- Hodgdons Lil'Gun Gun. But still, it's not as perfect as some would like (heat erosion in some cartridges).

I really, really like the .327fm. I think like the 6.5creedmoor, it's going to take a little while longer for just the right platform for it to come along. IMO, it just might be the new GP100 5" half lug barrel. At 39oz it isn't TOO heavy, will be stable to shoot and strong enough to get full capability of cartridge, but still all-day-portable. Not a "crew-served" hand-rifle like the 7.5" BlackHawk .30Carbine.
If S&W will follow with a release of another Model 16 in .327 with 4" and 6" bbls, and Speer make another run of 115gr GolDots. Or, perhaps a 115gr XTP.
To me, it's the ultimate reloaders field gun. The .32s&wl is even better as a plinker/target cartridge than the .38spl, and somewhat better yet for small game. IMO, it's the reloaders anwser to a reloadable .22rf. Up to .357mag in one package. I actually carry the little Single 7, where even my Ruger RSA6 (pre mk1) and S&W 6" 617 now stay home. I need another handgun like Bill Gates needs another dollar bill. But I really WANT one of the new GP100's in .327. This is what makes a new cartridge/guns successful. We've long had all the guns/cartridges we NEED.
 
I shoot the LCR9mm a lot. It is a gun I carry very often. The recoil is at the point of fun to shoot but at the point of crossing the line to harsh and I usually shoot around 30-40 moon clips each week.(about 150-200 rds). I have been shooting this gun for two years. For myself, the gun requires a lot of range time to shoot proficiently. I love the 9mm, I can buy it anywhere, I reload it, and for the most part it is about 1/2 that of 327 and much cheaper than 357. But for myself, I do not in any way want to shoot 357. or 327 in a gun with a barrel that is less than 2". My hand hurts thinking about it. Recoil test show the 357 and 327 to be almost three times as much. around 7.27 ft lbs for the 9mm vs 19.47 ft.lbs for the 357 and the 327 just under that. Man that is a lot of recoil. And for a gun that is close range work?
I guess if you can handle it to shoot often for training, and can afford it then that is fine. Personally I could not handle it.Do not want the flash, nor the loudness. I hate to think of shooting those rounds inside of a house without ear plugs. Seems like they would blow your ear drums out.
 
sounds like the 327 fm still isn't quite sorted out yet. speer uses magnum pistol primers, b. pearce is using regular pistol primers, federal is using small rifle primers in its commercial loadings, hogdon is using small pistol magnums, alliant is using regular small pistol primers. regular small pistol primers seems the way to go here.

much ado about nothing, i guess.

murf
Small pistol is probably okay, as long as they aren't Federals.
 
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