Gun club background checks?

Rock185 said:

So statutory rape is equivalent to petty theft in the minds of some?

Click to expand...

When it's an 18 year old boyfriend and a 16 year old girlfriend from 20 years ago, yeah - it's petty

George P said:

Why? If he has done his time and has paid his "debt to society" in full - meaning no probation, free to come and go as he pleases, in your eyes, that isn't good enough; so basically he has to serve a life term when it comes to clubs like yours.......Do you also kick out the guy who got a minor DUI? Do you check for vets with PTSD? Do you go back several generations looking for certain behavioral traits? If not, then why not - better sure no one with family histories of depression or similar are allowed in, right?

Click to expand...

Because felons lose their rights to possess firearms, at all. If they can not even touch a gun, why would a gun club want them as a member? What is the benefit/risk ratio for the club in this case? IF I was on the board of a gun club, I would hold to the same rules as required by the 4473. IF their rights have been restored, then that should also show up in the background check.

The gun club I belong to doesn't do NCIC checks.

George P said:

So, poor Joe who made a mistake, did his time, now is to be castigated for the rest of his life?

Click to expand...

Folks appear to be forgetting that we're talking about private clubs. The membership make the rules. Most of the membership of these clubs that make such rules are in favor of them or else they wouldn't get instituted to begin with.
No one is compelled to join such a club. You can always start your own club with your own rules. I like the rules and background checks. And I also like living in an HOA that looks like it was painted by Normal Rockwell. More rules to follow there too.

Our club has over 500 members.

They run a background check.

If you have a pistol permit they waive the BC.

Owen said:

Because felons lose their rights to possess firearms, at all. If they can not even touch a gun, why would a gun club want them as a member? What is the benefit/risk ratio for the club in this case? IF I was on the board of a gun club, I would hold to the same rules as required by the 4473. IF their rights have been restored, then that should also show up in the background check.

Click to expand...

Then answer the rest of my questions..........

ohihunter2014 said:

The concern was you have a member on the range and a vehicle pulls up and asks how to get in and the two guys on the range go ahead and sign for someone they have never met and only talked too for 5 min. How does someone know someone's integrity by meeting them off the street for 5min? I get where she is coming from and that application should have been denied because one of the consignees didn't show to the meeting and the other said oh, I met him at the turkey shoot the other day he seemed like a nice guy. Even my membership was sketchy. Had my High school math teacher sign for me and he walks over to another member and says sign this for the kid he was my student for 4yrs. Guy shook my hand and said welcome to the club. Basically if you don't have someone vouching for someone saying they have know them x number of years and the membership is too scared of making enemies for voting down people they want to do a background check.

You could tell these guys that Columbia gas is now doing electricity and someone wants to switch to them but its $500 a month and they would vote it in because they don't want enemies. I have enemies because the member guy pushed me higher on the waiting list (after I was told I was in and paid) to get family in there. Well the membership found out about it and voted me in but others still hold a grudge against me about it. Its been 3-4yrs.

Click to expand...

We have a 7 member executive board. Every new member has to be approved by the board. You have to show up at the appointed time and the board is free to ask you any questions they want. I guess you could call it an interview. They vote on your application that day. After the BC (if you get one) they send you a letter if you are accepted. You pay all fees and get a key to the gate with your member number on it. No one else uses that range unless you are a member or a guest. Everyone signs in and out at the gate. Everyone wears a member ID or guess pass while on the range. If you don't follow the rules any member can (and sometimes do) report your inappropriate activity to the board. Then you get to explain to them why you were reported. They can terminate your membership at any time. I was asked if I would accept a nomination to serve on the board this year. I've never been on a board for anything so I'm still thinking about it. Someone obviously knows me but I'm not sure who it is. I don't know all the members.

It's a private club. There's a 2 year waiting list. They do what they want.

ohihunter2014 said:

same with us. 2 members co sign, you go on a waiting list for who knows how long, once a spot comes open your brought up in the monthly meeting as joe smo from ohio and who signed for you, where you work, how long, interest, skills and then the two people who signed must stand up and tell everyone how long they have known you and they say everyone good with it and everyone agrees. I started noticing that some stuff everyone raises a hand and sometimes some don't but also don't appose it. I think the reason they don't raise their hand for the yes is they don't agree but don't want to make waves by actually apposing it. We have weekend matches on Sunday open to the paying public and sometimes guys will come shoot with a buddy and get to know another member and they get in. I went there one day to sight in a deer gun as a public member and ran into my high school teacher and he signed for me cause ive known him for 15yrs. our club mimics yours except the public shoots we do.

Click to expand...

Our club is open to the public one day a week and for several days before deer season. Anyone can shoot to sight in a rifle for a fee. We have an NRA range master and safety officers that oversee all of our public events. The club is an NRA affiliate and you have to be an NRA member to join. We get people there who have never shot a firearm but want to learn.

The range we shoot at now seems more concerned about rounds leaving the range than anything else. They were shut down for a few months a couple years ago because someone said they were hit in the head by a stray round. I really don't know the facts about that story but from what I heard no one could prove yes or no. All new rifles must be first tested at a dedicated 25 yard range, that includes new rifles, old rifles with new scopes and anything in between. Once a satisfactory set of target hits are recorded, the facts of the matter are stored in a file.

It's all a matter of what's important to a range I guess; these guys know one bullet leaving the range and causing pain, death or whatever is game-over. They are no longer open to the public as they used to be on Sundays.

On point though, gun ranges are not law enforcement agencies, I don't think they are required to screen prospective members as to firearm possession status. If someone knows they are prohibited and makes the decision to possess, they've most likely figured out ways to hoodwink even the most astute gun club.

ohihunter2014 said:

Does your gun club/hunt club perform a background check on new members? I was at my clubs meeting last night and they voted about 6 people in and several of them were recommended by members just because "they met them at a public shoot and they seemed like an okay person". Club bylaws state that two active/good standing members with one year or more seniority have to sign for that person and 99% of the time its someone both people have know for awhile. Last night we heard a lot of "well i met that guy at the public shoot and he seemed like a nice guy" and someone asked if we run background checks on new members and we were told no!

I will say i was shocked that they don't do a basic background check on new members to make sure no one has a criminal record. When asked what the $85 initiation fee goes too we were told it goes into the general fund. Of course this turned the club house into a free for all with members saying well someone signed for them so its good enough and that's the bylaws so there is no discussion. Some members voiced legal liability concerns if the club did let a felon or what not in there and something happened and worried we could be shut down. What got me was dues are $65-year and initiation fee is $85 and they proposed to raise the initiation fee to cover the cost of the background check. Well its already $20 over the yearly dues. I was actually shocked how many people opposed this stating invasion of privacy, well if the guy has a gun he must not be a felon, ask to see the persons ccw upon starting the application process, scratch the idea all together and take members words on it.

We get to argue some more next meeting and see where this goes but it got me wondering how many clubs DO NOT do background checks?

Click to expand...

I belong to a sportsmen's and a hunting club. Neither did background checks. Both required referral from an existing member. I have NEVER heard of a shooting club anywhere requiring a background check.

I don't belong to a gun club since I am surrounded by Federal lands and can basically shoot without paying. However, there is club about 20 miles away and they charge $55 per year and have no checks or requirements, other than to pay the fee. Just walk into the C.A.L Ranch store, Sportsman's Warehouse or a few gun stores and hand over the cash. Not sure if I understand a background check, and requiring someone to get a CCW, especially in states that do not require a CCW to carry is the right thing to do. But their rules, so you either have to follow them or move on to another place to shoot.

BSA1 said:

If you use information to ban a person from joining the club based on information that is proved to be false you could be open to a (rightfully) civil lawsuit.

Click to expand...

That hasn't stopped the ATF. About 5% of their denials are based on false information.

The ATF and our club still run checks. Lots of employers run checks before they hire people. It's a pretty common practice.

ohihunter2014 said:

Does your gun club/hunt club perform a background check on new members? I was at my clubs meeting last night and they voted about 6 people in and several of them were recommended by members just because "they met them at a public shoot and they seemed like an okay person". Club bylaws state that two active/good standing members with one year or more seniority have to sign for that person and 99% of the time its someone both people have know for awhile. Last night we heard a lot of "well i met that guy at the public shoot and he seemed like a nice guy" and someone asked if we run background checks on new members and we were told no!

I will say i was shocked that they don't do a basic background check on new members to make sure no one has a criminal record. When asked what the $85 initiation fee goes too we were told it goes into the general fund. Of course this turned the club house into a free for all with members saying well someone signed for them so its good enough and that's the bylaws so there is no discussion. Some members voiced legal liability concerns if the club did let a felon or what not in there and something happened and worried we could be shut down. What got me was dues are $65-year and initiation fee is $85 and they proposed to raise the initiation fee to cover the cost of the background check. Well its already $20 over the yearly dues. I was actually shocked how many people opposed this stating invasion of privacy, well if the guy has a gun he must not be a felon, ask to see the persons ccw upon starting the application process, scratch the idea all together and take members words on it.

We get to argue some more next meeting and see where this goes but it got me wondering how many clubs DO NOT do background checks?

Click to expand...

This is why I don't join clubs in NC...most of them are Hunt Clubs, so restrictive it's laughable. I hunt elsewhere (deer) or go to public lands for Turkey, Small Game, Predator Hunting. Gun clubs are a joke too. Most are made up of wannabes trying to one-up each other on their"intimate" knowledge of firearms, forming little cliques that stick their noses up at others - just pretty much juvenile all the way around. But, if they feel better about themselves, well, I guess that's what's important huh? I usually end up seeing them at competitive shooting events, USPSA, IDPA, NRA Bullseye matches - and, their skills normally don't match up to their boasting or lecturing at the club. I wouldn't join too many clubs nowadays with all the nutjobs out there - very difficult to verify stuff on someone who wants to keep it hidden.

Kendahl said:

My gun club doesn't do background checks. However, it does require that members hold a current concealed carry permit or the state permit required to acquire a handgun. New members must be sponsored by a current member. The membership application form includes some of the questions from form 4473. NRA membership also is required. (The NRA has been very generous to the club.)

When I joined a practical shooting club thirty years ago, I was told they would do a background check before approving my application. Since concealed carry and acquisition permits didn't exist then, I suspect it was done under the table by a member who was a police officer.

I don't object to background checks. It keeps out the kind of people I keep a gun to defend myself against.

Click to expand...

That is also what my club requires. You go to the first meeting and introduce yourself and then attend the next meeting where the vote is taken. If you hold a concealed carry permit or have current permit to purchase a handgun the vote can be taken at the first meeting. Dues are $200.

BSA1 said:

Be very, very careful about using information from background checks.

A non-leo can not run a NCIC check on other individuals.

There are websites on the Internet that claim to offer background checks.

You can do a Internet search for criminal convictions for free on State Department of Corrections and some Sheriff Departments.

However there is no guarantee that the information is correct or even if it is the same person. Some Law Enforcement Agencies are bad about never updating arrest records to show the final disposition of the charges.

If you use information to ban a person from joining the club based on information that is proved to be false you could be open to a (rightfully) civil lawsuit.

My club has a one-year probationary period that requires the applicate to complete a number of requirements to prove they are willing to be active helping the club and allow other members a chance to get to know him.

Click to expand...

To piggyback on what BSA1 is saying:

Outfits like "Been Verified" and other companies doing background checks do so by name and date of birth. People with common names can wrongly be identified as someone with a criminal history.

I work for a large Sheriff's Office in Florida and my Unit stays busy clearing up cases like this using fingerprints comparisons.

The club I belong too in Maryland requires members to sign an affidavit that they have never been convicted of crime punishable by a year or more If you lie you loose membership, all new prospected members back ground checks are done. I agree if one can not own or buy a guns then he has no business belonging to a gun club

In the free states we DON'T do background checks on every firearm-related activity.
A private club may vet their new members any way they please. I don't have to join them. I pass NICS checks without any problem but, if a shooting club wanted to do a bg check on me, I'd withdraw my application. I have too many options around here to put up with that.

Jack B. said:

What does a gun club gain by doing a back ground check? I don't get the idea.

Click to expand...

Safety and security of its members? I hate all the info gathering going on these days, from Wal Mart to Google, but I don't think I'd object to BGC if I wanted to join a club.
Most people these days put all kinds of personal info out there like face book and whatever else... But object when they hear "back ground check".

Wisco said:

So someone convicted of statutory rape or petty theft shouldn’t be allowed in your gun club? I’m talking specifically about misdemeanor level crime where someone isn’t prohibited from gun ownership.

Who at your club would decide what crime rises to the level of not passing the check?

I also have nothing to hide; everything is a matter of public record here in WI, but if I’m a legal gun owner it seems pretty absurd a gun club would need to run a background check on me just to qualm their irrational fears I might be a thief, rapist, murderer, terrorist, etc.

How much of a problem does your club currently have with thievery, rape and child sexual assault? If you say none, then I really think it’s not logical to implement background checks to solve a nonexistent problem.

Click to expand...

The basic issue being discussed is violent felonies and, well... yes, theft. What is pretty theft? A candy bar? Something small you don't need but took anyway? Hmm, that could describe many things at such a club.

The level of crime that prohibits a person from legally owning firearms.

Just because someone has a gun doesn't make them a legal gun owner. How do you know who's who?

His club probably has no crime now... He said most members know each other. But lately there have been many applicants that are not well known to existing members... An ounce of prevention...

My gun club has a vetting process....applicants must pay the $200 initiation fee, be sponsored by a current member, have two reference letters from reputable people, and be a member of the NRA. That has eliminated most of the jerks and yet we have had a few losers get through and have had to kick out a few. But, mostly it works.

Your concern is understandable. In the past few years, I've found myself at clubs shooting next to people that gave me serious concern for my safety. On several occasions I've spoken to the so-called "range master" or "range safety officer" about problems only to be told to mind my own business. Well excuuuussseee me! It is my business if I get shot or another member gets hurt or the range gets closed because of idiots with poor judgement or in some cases allowing felons to be in possession of firearms. It all goes to the character of the members forming the foundation for the reputation of the club and gun owners in general. None of these clubs do background checks, but one of the collectors' clubs puts out a list of people who have applied to become members and asks for comments from current members about any of these people. A few years back there were four people who applied to be members of a collectors club to which I belong. I knew they were not good people. One was a convicted child molester and poacher, another was a poacher and liar. Both of these people had trespassed on a friends farm and bragged about their illegal hunting, boasting that it was their right to shoot game where ever and when ever they wanted and they would "kill anybody that tried to stop them!" The others had several convictions for everything from drunk driving to drug dealing. A couple of the club officers tracked me down at a meeting and said they wanted to talk to me about the letters I had sent regarding these proposed new members. When we finally got around to talking, I discovered what they really wanted was for me to withdraw my letters objecting to these people becoming members. I told them I wouldn't do that, so they huddled together for a few minutes and finally said, "fine, we'll just ignore them" -- that is ignore my letters and let these people become members. My question was why bother asking for comments if you're going to let anyone and everyone become a member? It's so frustrating at times like these when gun owners seem bound and determined to be their own worst enemies, but for the rest of us, please known that you're not alone and keep fighting the good fight. Thanks again for your concern.