This could be the start of gun control......
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AlexanderA
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Far more people die in traffic accidents than in these mass shooting incidents. Yet we don't ban cars. We, as a society, have made the unspoken judgement that the freedom to travel by car is worth the risk of becoming a traffic fatality.
Same with guns. The freedom to have guns carries a price. A small, random number of people are going to fall victim to guns every year. For some reason nobody is willing to say this truth out loud.
And if we give up our freedom in a vain attempt to gain safety, it still won't work. A theoretically "gun-free" society isn't. The difference is that all the guns are in the hands of lawbreakers.
Same with guns. The freedom to have guns carries a price. A small, random number of people are going to fall victim to guns every year. For some reason nobody is willing to say this truth out loud.
And if we give up our freedom in a vain attempt to gain safety, it still won't work. A theoretically "gun-free" society isn't. The difference is that all the guns are in the hands of lawbreakers.
This is the problem though. Because everyone thinks they are "crazy." Mental health gets a bad reputation and people are hesitant to seek treatment. If we were able to remove this stigma from mental health and encourage these people to seek the care they need...then I think this would prevent a lot of these violent incidents. Mental disease is no different than physical disease. Focus on treating disease rather than banning inanimate objects.
I'm a healthcare provider...maybe I see it a little differently than everyone else.
bassjam
Member
I just finished emailing my Senators, representative, and even took the time to voice my opinion to my governor. Being that it's Kasich, I'm not sure that one matters.
It's become evident to me that something needs to be done, and if Republicans don't offer some real solutions, soon enough Congress and the Presidency will be occupied by the "other side" and they will enact laws that will do a lot of damage to our freedom.
I feel that any more restrictions on the 2nd Amendment are intolerable, but I did offer these solutions to the politicians that represent me:
1) The media should have restrictions on how often they can repeat the names of those that commit these acts of violence. Constantly repeating their names immortalizes them, and that's exactly what those nut jobs want. They WANT to have their picture on their own wikipedia page, with a number of how many victims they killed sitting next to it. You aren't allowed to scream "fire" in a public place, and I don't believe you should be able to constantly repeat the names of these "suspects". Heck, I'd go so far as to refer to them as "cowards" instead of "gunmen" but that's probably taking things too far to require that by law.
2) Gun free zones should be abolished, except for court houses. Federal funding should be set aside for firearms and defense training for teachers and school administrators who wish to participate. Teachers should be able to deduct the cost of their firearm that they will be carrying at work from their taxes. This one will be a harder sell to get passed, but it would work.
It's become evident to me that something needs to be done, and if Republicans don't offer some real solutions, soon enough Congress and the Presidency will be occupied by the "other side" and they will enact laws that will do a lot of damage to our freedom.
I feel that any more restrictions on the 2nd Amendment are intolerable, but I did offer these solutions to the politicians that represent me:
1) The media should have restrictions on how often they can repeat the names of those that commit these acts of violence. Constantly repeating their names immortalizes them, and that's exactly what those nut jobs want. They WANT to have their picture on their own wikipedia page, with a number of how many victims they killed sitting next to it. You aren't allowed to scream "fire" in a public place, and I don't believe you should be able to constantly repeat the names of these "suspects". Heck, I'd go so far as to refer to them as "cowards" instead of "gunmen" but that's probably taking things too far to require that by law.
2) Gun free zones should be abolished, except for court houses. Federal funding should be set aside for firearms and defense training for teachers and school administrators who wish to participate. Teachers should be able to deduct the cost of their firearm that they will be carrying at work from their taxes. This one will be a harder sell to get passed, but it would work.
bassjam
Member
Been a member of the NRA for 15 years, but I did just take the time to renew my membership to the GOA. I let that one lapse about 5 years ago, but I trust them more to protect my rights than I do the NRA.
I'm actually kind of getting sick of the constant fear-mongering message that the NRA floods me with.
Sav .250
Member
You last sentence. Everybody sends out material. Churches. ASPCA. Police groups. wild life groups. Organizations are always asking for something. In doing so, they all give the company line.
As far as "constant fear mongering" goes. I don` see it that way. But rather, the company line. Win some lose some.
As to your membership. It`s a free country. You control what you do . No problem here.
I don't think arming teachers is the solution to these issues. It seems counterproductive to me. I'm sure I'm the minority in this...but here me out for a second.
My wife is a high school teacher in a large high school. They have training and protocols in place for a shooting. Basically, their job is to secure their classroom. Lock the doors, turn the lights out, get the students into the best place for concealment in their room, ect. If we armed the teacher and had them go and try and "save the day" that would require them to abandon their classroom unsecured. Keep in mind...17 people were killed in Florida last week. 17 sounds like a lot...and if it's you or your loved on it is. But, that school has 3200 students in it. I feel like their protocol worked pretty well.
In my eyes "more guns" is just as bad of a solution as "banning guns." The gun isn't the issue.
xXxplosive
Member
If they disarm us, they own us....OMO.
bassjam
Member
I'm not advocating for teachers to prowl the hallways and try to track down a shooter, that's best left to the police carrying carbines and on radio's and trained to operate as a team. But if the shooter busts through a teacher's doorway, I'd like to have a teacher with a handgun in there (if that teacher is comfortable with doing so).
The whole idea is a potential shooter wouldn't know if a particular school had zero teachers/administrators carrying, or if half of them were. Deterrence is key here.
Jim Watson
Member
Who's going anywhere? Close the door and kill anything that enters without identification.
xXxplosive
Member
Maybe in your part of the country....but here in NJ, I'm definitely not in favor of arming our Liberal, Snowflake teachers...they will never do it....they don't know a barrel from a breech plug.......these are the anti's who yell...."where are the men with guns to protect us"....and you want to arm them....leave it to professionals to do a professional job.
Fair point.
But, I don't know if it's a good idea to have that many students in that close proximity to firearms. It seems that the potential for an accident to occur is much greater than the benefit. That being said, it may also depend on the location too.
Something else to consider too. Teachers won't be in communication with law enforcement. It would put them (and the police) at huge risk if they were wrongly identified as a shooter.
Jim Watson
Member
If the situation has deteriorated to the point of buttoning up the classroom and the teacher drawing a gun, "close proximity" and "potential for an accident" become very minor concerns.
That's true...but there are 1000s of schools in this country. How many of them have shooters? How many accidents will it take before it isn't a minor concern? I don't think the odds favor implementing this kind of plan in large numbers.
I can promise you this...the first accident we have (and there will be one) the libs will make a huge show of it. They would love nothing more than to have one of our own plans blow up in our face. That's exactly what it would be.
To me, this seems like a bad idea.
toivo
Member
That's the heart of it. If all the AR-style rifles magically disappeared tomorrow, the next shooter would show up with a pump shotgun full of 00 buck and a big bag of shells. Then they'd be howling to ban pump shotguns. It really never ends.
theotherwaldo
Member
I was a teacher, but that was over 20 years ago so my experience is outmoded. As a public librarian I can carry a licensed concealed weapon to protect my patrons as long as no one knows... .
My sister, however, is a teacher in a Los Angeles U.S.D. school, one of the most oppressive left-wing organizations in America. According to her, the school's administration would rather lose the entire student body to an attacker rather than introduce non-uniformed armed defenders to the classrooms.
She, herself, would rather not carry a gun (although she has been trained in safe gun handling and is a pretty good shot with handguns). She considers it to be a further hazard to her job just to THINK about having a gun in that increasingly hostile environment. It's bad enough that she's an over-40 anglo in a mostly latino inner-city school run by political activists.
Still, she would like to see certain of her fellow teachers and school staff get trained and certified in defending the student body with appropriate weapons.
-A final point: if the kids were exposed to weapons in a positive, non-threatening way then much of the media-inspired gun-fear would fade.
My sister, however, is a teacher in a Los Angeles U.S.D. school, one of the most oppressive left-wing organizations in America. According to her, the school's administration would rather lose the entire student body to an attacker rather than introduce non-uniformed armed defenders to the classrooms.
She, herself, would rather not carry a gun (although she has been trained in safe gun handling and is a pretty good shot with handguns). She considers it to be a further hazard to her job just to THINK about having a gun in that increasingly hostile environment. It's bad enough that she's an over-40 anglo in a mostly latino inner-city school run by political activists.
Still, she would like to see certain of her fellow teachers and school staff get trained and certified in defending the student body with appropriate weapons.
-A final point: if the kids were exposed to weapons in a positive, non-threatening way then much of the media-inspired gun-fear would fade.
Totally agree. The gun has nothing to do with it (neither the problem or the solution). If we banned all guns the kids would rent a van and roll over their peers in the parking lot.
The problem is mental health. We need to de-stigmatize it and encourage treatment...just like any other disease.
I heard that argument the other night, it seems "reasonable" until you think of the impact. Is this just a restriction of purchasing or possessing? semi automatic firearms are very popular hunting weapons, so are semi auto shotguns. not they are not necessary, but they are useful tools. AR15s are great rifles to shoot pigs, varmints, and deer (in some states). if a new law is passed raising that age limit to 21 "just like a handgun" can an 18yr old go deer hunting with dad's AR15? I call foul, the only new laws that will help are concealed carry for trained personnel. I teach at a university and we worked with the PD to run an active shooter drill. it was a very good drill. it took the police 5-8 minutes to respond. amazing response time. . . .but when the shooter clears 4 classrooms in that time. . .
Armed teachers should not "Prowl" to clear the school. the mantra should be "Run, Hide, Fight." I would expect teachers would be entirely outgunned. Can you imagine if a teacher had an AR15 with one of those evil magazines in the classroom. oh the horror.
when out of options, when the bad actor shows up and is trying to enter a door, enters to the door or shoots through a window, I want the victims to have something better than scissors to fight back with. The fear of collateral damage in an exchange of fire is real. that must be trained to and worked into active shooter protocols, but i'd rather risk a two way exchange of fire over a one way exchange. . . .
the simple fact that schools are not soft targets will deter someone someday, and perhaps the one that is not deterred will be cut short and forced to flee the scene/cut short the attack after being shot at in return. I think it would be unrealistic to expect a teacher with a concealed weapon to defeat a would be mass murderer in a gunfight, pistol vs rifle or shotgun is a losing fight, but perhaps a few rounds coming back would make the mass murderer have a change of heart and flee the scene.
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bassjam
Member
It's more than mental health. Just like there has always been guns in this country, and often those guns sat quietly at the back of classrooms, there has also always been mental health issues with kids. But today something is triggering (no pun intended) to lash out while in the past they didn't.
I think it's a lack of morals and respect of life, and that isn't something that you can legislate.
"Back in the old days" these kids weren't forced to be in school. They didn't fit in so they dropped out or were put into other programs. Now with all this liberal "equal access" philosophies, these kids are being forced to stay in school longer in normal classes. They are forced to associate with other students and they become outcasts. Some lash out.
I think social media hasn't helped either. I'm sure there are all kinds of forums where these kids congregate and stoke each others fires. Almost like a reverse support group.
I think the core of the problem is mental health. That's where we should start.
theotherwaldo
Member
I don't see what the age of the shooter has to do with it.
Almost all of the school shooters have been over-medicated people with serious mental problems or gang-bangers.
Most obtained their weapons through theft from family members or through the errors of those that should have prevented the sale.
Almost all of the school shooters have been over-medicated people with serious mental problems or gang-bangers.
Most obtained their weapons through theft from family members or through the errors of those that should have prevented the sale.
I haven't heard anybody suggest teachers go hunt the bad guy - it's a case of when the bad guy comes thru the door....
alexander45
Member
He seems to only be Republican as it helps his business. He contributed to jeb and other rather meh-ly performing rinos, thats like saying you have a say in the American auto industry because you own a large amount of stock in Mitsubishi (currently going the way of the dodo if ya didn't know) who cares what the guy who puts his money on the losing horse? If anything his contributions take away from the party by helping divide a few votes over to some one who has no chance
The door is locked. I have yet to see a report of a shooter spending time trying to breech a locked door (but I admit I could be mistaken). Typically if they find a locked door...they move onto the next. Speed is the key.
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