Myth Busting Lube vs No-Lube and Bullet Setback

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A recent thread discussion prompted another myth busting challenge - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...ight-wall-handgun-brass.832620/#post-10760639
I am curious about one thing though.

Has anyone done bullet setback test with lube vs no lube?
I have a feeling that "someone" is about to do such a test! :)

Since I already have no-lube bullet setback test data with X-Treme 100 gr and HSM 115 gr from "Neck Tension and Bullet Setback" thread, I plan to test the same bullets and headstamp cases to measure bullet setback with lubed cases - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...nd-bullet-setback.830072/page-3#post-10715550

I bought a can of One Shot. Since I do not lube pistol brass for resizing, what method do you suggest I use to lube the brass for testing?
 
I always took an old cloth diaper (we had plenty of em’ because of the twins) and sprayed whatever lube you want on it to get a good dousing on the cloth itself. I’ve always used ballistol. And then I just pick a case every fifth round or so and gently roll it on the cloth and throw her in the press. Worked fine for me. I haven’t done this with one shot. I’ll be interested in what findings you’ll come up with.
 
Many posted they lube brass by putting them in a ziplock bag and spraying One Shot then shaking the bag to coat the lube.

So should I use the ziplock bag method?

If so, I plan on flattening the cases on the side one layer thick and spraying to minimize getting overspray inside the case neck then shaking the bag to coat the case surface.

Am I doing this correct?

And do you resize while wet or let lube dry out?
 
I haven’t used One Shot for pistol cases but I do use it on .223 and .308 cases. FWIW, the way I do it is spread a layer of cases in a supermarket “throw away” aluminum baking pan (which I don't throw away) and spray from all four sides, then shake it up and do it again. Then, the most important step! LET IT DRY FOR AT LEAST 5 MINUTES! (Sorry, didn’t mean to shout, but some folks don’t hear so good when it comes to using One Shot. ;)) Dry and waxy to the touch is good. Wet is certain death!

Will be interested to see your test results. Thanks for taking it on.
 
I Would be interested in the methods used for this "myth busting"...
 
I use the bag method for rifle loads, do not lube pistol. Since your trying to see if it effect neck tension, you almost need to set the cases up and spray for a angle to ensure you get some in all cases. Like said let it dry at least 5 min, 10 better. During normal use they would just spay into the bag, so it would be very random on getting lube in the case.

You may need to number the case and do a dry test first then repeat with the lube.
 
But to better duplicate the lubing methods used, I am polling the members.
set the cases up and spray for a angle to ensure you get some in all cases.
As to spraying directly inside case neck, I do not believe users of One Shot would do that, not intentionally. So I will attempt to not over spray into the case neck, just outside with cases close together.

I will definitely dry the cases.

As to other lubing methods like spreading lube with finger tips, I do have a can of Bag Balm but since its use does not coat the inside of case neck, I don't think we need to test this method as there would be no change. Yes, I would definitely agree this method will decrease resizing effort.
 
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As to spraying directly inside case neck, I do not believe users of One Shot would do that, not intentionally. So I will attempt to not over spray into the case neck, just outside with cases close together.

When I do .223, I actually do make sure I get some in the neck. The way I do it, I lay 10 to 15 cases on a rag with the walls touching, spray one quick spray at the neck shoulder region, then another on the body. Roll all cases 180 degrees and repeat. Then I roll them back and forth to remove excess and evenly spread the lube. I wait a minute or less and size. I don't mind getting it in the neck because I tumble to get all the lube off and polish the brass. If I had a carbide expander button, I wouldn't bother.
 
bds, I'm not to trying to make more work, but I think even if people are mostly trying not to spray the inside of the cases, it may be worth deliberately spraying some inside to see what happens. So you'd have your non-lubed control, your common/best lube practice test, and your worst realistic case test. If you don't get any more setback in the worst case, then lube-caused setback probably just isn't a thing to worry about. If you do get it in worst case, but not in the common/best lube practice test, then we learn that technique is critical.
 
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ATLDave has a good thought, worst case test.

Lube by whatever the most common method is while minimizing lube inside the case, and do a worst case test, lube the inside of the case neck on purpose.
Worst case might not reflect real world but would show how much if any effect the lube had when it was inside the case.

When I lube 223 I dump a layer in an old Tupperware/Rubermaid container, spray with Dillon/Frankford (lanolin and alcohol) just however the brass is when dumped in, and shake around for a bit.

When I dry tumbled I use Flitz media polish which left the brass feeling slick.
I don't every recall having any setback issues except ones caused by worn out brass.

Thanks in advance for testing this for us all:cool:
 
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So any other lubing method suggestions?

So far I have ziplock bag and plastic tray to use with One Shot.

I just use a clear Sterilite container (shoe Box size) 6 quart to be exact. throw the brass in there (a few hundred) spritz lightly, shake them around spritz light again, shake, done. Alcohol dries very fast.

I use diluted LEE lube with rubbing alcohol. The Lube is water based, I do not remove it. It is very light and not much get in the case mouths
 
As Texasveteod said, I do not worry about getting lube in the neck as they are tumbled after resizing and trimming to length. I stand brass neck up in a reloading block (usually 50 in a 100 block, staggered) give the brass a a couple of quick sweeps of One Shot from all 4 sides down at an angle.
I don't mind getting it in the neck because I tumble to get all the lube off and polish the brass. If I had a carbide expander button, I wouldn't bother.
 
If you use One Shot in the manner that I and others have described, i.e., spraying spread out cases from different angles, you're inherently going to get some lube inside the case mouths without even trying. It's the nature of the beast. Whether or not you want to test if bullet retention is affected by "typical" lubing or by worst case "shot in the mouth" is by all means your call. Just thought I'd mention it since you haven't used One Shot before.
 
Many posted they lube brass by putting them in a ziplock bag and spraying One Shot then shaking the bag to coat the lube.

So should I use the ziplock bag method?

If so, I plan on flattening the cases on the side one layer thick and spraying to minimize getting overspray inside the case neck then shaking the bag to coat the case surface.

Am I doing this correct?

And do you resize while wet or let lube dry out?

That’s what I do and works good.
 
I use the RCBS glycerin lube. I put 200 pieces of .223 brass in a gallon bag and dump in some glycerin lube. I stir them around and let them set for a couple of hours and the lube will crawl all over the brass. Including the inside of the case mouth, which is what I want. When I am done resizing the brass I spray them with windex and wash in hot water. This washes off the lube. I let them air dry or put them over a low powered heater to make sure they are dry. I then finish them off in the tumbler. Easy peasy.
kwg
 
Bds, I may be way off base here but I think you need to standardize your lube application procedure.

If I was doing this testing I would try to find a way to apply the same amount of lube to each
case each time. Perhaps you could spray the One Shot on ear swabs and then swab the
inside of the cases to a standard depth. Or spray the One Shot on a thin (say .25 inch)
open cell foam pad and press the cases straight down on it.

By the way I am a full believer in using Hornady One Shot lube on pistol cases.

Good on you for taking this on. I am sure we will all learn from your experiment.
 
The ONLY reason I have ever lubed straight-wall pistol cases was to specifically get lube INSIDE the case neck. I had to do that recently for some new Starline 44 mag cases, they were sticking on the expander.
 
The directions on the One Shot can say to set cases neck up and spray at a downward angle to get some lube in the case mouth.
I suppose they are assuming bottle neck cases are being lubed.
 
Bds, I may be way off base here but I think you need to standardize your lube application procedure.

If I was doing this testing I would try to find a way to apply the same amount of lube to each
case each time. Perhaps you could spray the One Shot on ear swabs and then swab the
inside of the cases to a standard depth. Or spray the One Shot on a thin (say .25 inch)
open cell foam pad and press the cases straight down on it.\

There may be a tradeoff between reliability and validity of the test. A controlled application may make the test more reliable (i.e., consistent and repeatable results within a narrow window), but less valid (doesn't match what real world users do, and therefore doesn't predict/test what real world users encounter).
 
suggest you include an uncleaned, unlubed (other than the carbon inside) fired case. i'm assuming here that you tumble clean your cases.

i know this is a case lube test, but carbon black is a lube of sorts. this is how we used to do it in the old days before case tumblers. just curious i guess.

luck,

murf
 
I'm a but curioue here. The OP says "Has anyone done bullet setback test with lube vs no lube?". Is the poster talking about lubing the bullet or the case? Lots or replies about how some lube their cases, but what is being lubed that might cause set back?
 
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