6.5 Grendel here for the long haul or destined to fade

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I see lehigh defense is coming out with an all copper 110 grain "controlled chaos" bullet in 6.5. I know they're a controversial company on the gun forums, but it never hurts for those of us in CA to have another lead free option.

It seems like you have settled on the 6.5 Grendel. FYI, Brownells had a sale on their M-16 bcg in 6.5 Grendel for 89.95 with cheap shipping, I have seen barrels for $100-200 from blaster quality to well regarded barrel makers (match are a bit more), and so on. Seem to be a lot of options for buying a full upper as well at a reasonable cost. Ammo, brass, and bullets are available as are mags. Go for it.
 
IMO the Grendel is not going to grow a lot but it will remain an option for a long time.
Same thing with the 6.8 spc that also amazing fills a huge gap for hunting with lots of speed and power even from short barrels.
The 6.5 makes the most sense with a 20-21" barrel and longer so one can take maximum advantage of the fuel and
improve the slow speeds of 120gr bullets in short barrels.
The steel cased ammo is a nice alternative for folks to practice but not sure how good is the return in terms of accuracy and cleaningless.
Also keep in mind some eastern bullets with thicker than usual metal jackets are more aggressive on the rifling.
I am not saying this is the case of the Grendel but it is worth investigating as it happens with other Russian steel cased ammo.
In short, more iron and less copper is cheaper but not so good for the barrels.
At the other hand a barrel for an all terrain type of rifle is affordable so there might be a trade off.
just thinking out loud.
 
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It seems like you have settled on the 6.5 Grendel. FYI, Brownells had a sale on their M-16 bcg in 6.5 Grendel for 89.95 with cheap shipping, I have seen barrels for $100-200 from blaster quality to well regarded barrel makers (match are a bit more), and so on. Seem to be a lot of options for buying a full upper as well at a reasonable cost. Ammo, brass, and bullets are available as are mags. Go for it.

I haven't quite settled on it yet. It's still a toss up between 2-3 different rifles.

Unfortunately, an AR basically isn't an option for me. Recent laws here outlaw the platform in all but atrocious, un-ergonomic configurations. If you don't know what a grip fin is, you're probably not from California. For my rifle, it's going to be a bolt gun, my close in gun will always be a shotgun.
 
I haven't quite settled on it yet. It's still a toss up between 2-3 different rifles.

Unfortunately, an AR basically isn't an option for me. Recent laws here outlaw the platform in all but atrocious, un-ergonomic configurations. If you don't know what a grip fin is, you're probably not from California. For my rifle, it's going to be a bolt gun, my close in gun will always be a shotgun.

Ah, now I see. I would not consider a Grendel bolt rifle. .300 Blackout, nor really a 6.8 SPC II. These make concessions in order to fit into AR platform that you would not need to make with a bolt rifle.

A garden variety .308 or a 6.5 Creedmoor would do for most shooting.
 
Ah, now I see. I would not consider a Grendel bolt rifle. .300 Blackout, nor really a 6.8 SPC II. These make concessions in order to fit into AR platform that you would not need to make with a bolt rifle.

A garden variety .308 or a 6.5 Creedmoor would do for most shooting.

The Ruger Scout 18.5" barrel version is also one I'm considering. Even thought that will probably run me more than grand here all said and done.

Just like everything's bigger in Texas, Everything's more expensive in California.
 
The reason why the 300 BLK is so popular is

-The rifles are super cheap (it's just an AR15 with a new barrel).
-Ammo is cheap.
-For the growing crowd of Class 3 enthusiasts, the 300 BLK offers some legitimate utility that the 223 doesn't.

The Grendel, OTOH is semi-custom and proprietary. They're not that expensive anymore, but they were for a long time, and so was the ammo. They're not plinkers or fun guns, and there was no reason to buy one unless you wanted to go deer hunting or long range shooting with an AR15.

Now for those deer hunters and long range shooters, the Grendel will do jobs that the 223 and 300 BLK won't, so there will always be a home for it. But outside of those niches, there's really not a need for it, and it costs a little too much to interest the plinkers. It's not going away, but it's not growing either.

If we ever had a few PSA weekend sales with $349 Grendel rifle kits and $5 boxes of steel case Grendel ammo (free shipping if you buy 10!), I think some people would give them an "oh, what the hell" buy like they sometimes do with 300 BLK. That might push it more into the mainstream.
 
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Ah, now I see. I would not consider a Grendel bolt rifle. .300 Blackout, nor really a 6.8 SPC II. These make concessions in order to fit into AR platform that you would not need to make with a bolt rifle.

A garden variety .308 or a 6.5 Creedmoor would do for most shooting.

Good point. I think having service cartridge has an advantage and if the goal is mostly target the 223/5.56 can do very well on a much lower budget and specially if one reloads.
Not really so restricted by the magazine in a bolt actin but within the parameters of that specific portfolio. One only needs to find a decent 1:8 or even 1:7 twist that is not the norm
for some inexplicable reason.
If hunting is in the menu the 308 is the way due to the extra section and momentum it provides whereas the 6.5 calibers can fall a tad short at 140grains.
After all I don't think he needs tactical competition and in any case if long range was required one has options with both the 308 and 5.56 premium and specialty bullets.
So there is always a strong argument for the 308 and 223/5.56.
 
The reason why the 300 BLK is so popular is
-The rifles are super cheap (it's just an AR15 with a new barrel).
-Ammo is cheap.
-For the growing crowd of Class 3 enthusiasts, the 300 BLK offers some legitimate utility that the 223 doesn't.
I believe the blackout is so popular because of a very well done marketing campaign but aside for subsonic/suppressed work that is what it was really intended for,
nothing it does offers an advantage. IMO the subsonic utility is not that critical and with rounds compatible with the side gun that do also great here not sure if it is
worth the swap.
 
I believe the blackout is so popular because of a very well done marketing campaign but aside for subsonic/suppressed work that is what it was really intended for,
nothing it does offers an advantage. IMO the subsonic utility is not that critical and with rounds compatible with the side gun that do also great here not sure if it is
worth the swap.

If you think of it as an improved M1-Carbine type cartridge, it has about the same attributes apart from being short barrelled and suppressor friendly with heavy subsonic bullets.
 
If you think of it as an improved M1-Carbine type cartridge, it has about the same attributes apart from being short barrelled and suppressor friendly with heavy subsonic bullets.
It is a bit more than a 30 carbine +P but not by much yet it gives us a pretty generous freebore.
The long free-fore is both a blessing and a curse.
It is a blessing because it gives a huge range of options in terms of bullets with different sizes and shapes as soon as they stack properly (AR&carbines mags issue only)
But it is a curse because it is very hard to make this round consistent and accurate. I think savage engineers best described this during round one trying to make an accurate
rifle like they do with most calibers. The SAAMI reamers simply do not allow that.
 
Good point. I think having service cartridge has an advantage and if the goal is mostly target the 223/5.56 can do very well on a much lower budget and specially if one reloads.
Not really so restricted by the magazine in a bolt actin but within the parameters of that specific portfolio. One only needs to find a decent 1:8 or even 1:7 twist that is not the norm
for some inexplicable reason.
If hunting is in the menu the 308 is the way due to the extra section and momentum it provides whereas the 6.5 calibers can fall a tad short at 140grains.
After all I don't think he needs tactical competition and in any case if long range was required one has options with both the 308 and 5.56 premium and specialty bullets.
So there is always a strong argument for the 308 and 223/5.56.

I really am now leaning toward the .308 the more I read through this thread. The 6.5G and 6.5CR are intriguing rounds but I think the .308 is more versatile for someone in my situation. Plus, there are way more lead-free options in .308 than in 6.5, which is a consideration if hunting becomes a possibility again.
 
I really am now leaning toward the .308 the more I read through this thread. The 6.5G and 6.5CR are intriguing rounds but I think the .308 is more versatile for someone in my situation. Plus, there are way more lead-free options in .308 than in 6.5, which is a consideration if hunting becomes a possibility again.

You can save a chunk of change too. Try CDNN as they sometimes have deals on Ruger 77's Browning A Bolt III's, and Savages. Right now, a Savage 111 .308 with scope is 349.00 after $100 rebate. They have it in a 6.5 Creedmoor too among others include the 7mm Rem Mag. https://www.cdnnsports.com/firearms.html#manufacturer=SAVAGE&price_sale=449,450
Browning A Bolt III's are the same price after rebate $349.00 without a scope.
 
@Jason_W
I think each caliber in the entire offspring of the 308 has its advantages and its shortcomings. Perhaps the most versatile of all would be the 7mm/08 because it can take the role of any of the other calibers
with the amazing ballistics and bullet options of the 7mm but in your situation and for you role not sure it is easily justifiable.
Either the 7mm and 308 can be loaded whit light bullets from 100 to 110gr to shoot varmints and piratically replicate the 243 Winchester.
If you want to hunt a light load in 120gr will do quick work of white tail w/o much recoil and they can be pumped to hit like a 270.
The 7mm bullets are superior to any of the 6.5mm versions and can be launched at similar speeds but again, how much is that a concern for you with an effective range of 800 yards in the 308 that can
also be extended using premium/VLD bullets?
If one reloads the 308 cases can be used for the 308 or any of its derivates but with potential good deals in ammo including surplus and also super cheap brass or virtually free at the recycling bin
isn't that an advantage too for reloading? if you want to reload lighter bulltes and milder loads you also have great bulk options for bullets like the speer tnt and others.
Can also use 30 carbine TMJ value packs for plinking that should not be a problem for a bolt acition.
I am not saying go this way or another, simply some points to make one think.
Why the 223/5.56 would not work? In practical terms regarding trajectory one could be doing the same things one is going to be doing with twice the powder so also think about it in terms of heat,
recoil and expense. A match reamer o wylde chambers let you use amazing 223 loads not possible with smaller platforms.
I mean other than hunting certain animals and/or distance and/or in places the 223 is not allowed by law.
Again, things to consider. A service round is a service round after all. There are certain advantages.
If you need data on loads or trajectories I have in all those calibers mentioned btw.. this tests done over the years so first hand data. some amazing bullet choices no matter the direction you take.
 
@Jason_W
I think each caliber in the entire offspring of the 308 has its advantages and its shortcomings. Perhaps the most versatile of all would be the 7mm/08 because it can take the role of any of the other calibers
with the amazing ballistics and bullet options of the 7mm but in your situation and for you role not sure it is easily justifiable.
Either the 7mm and 308 can be loaded whit light bullets from 100 to 110gr to shoot varmints and piratically replicate the 243 Winchester.
If you want to hunt a light load in 120gr will do quick work of white tail w/o much recoil and they can be pumped to hit like a 270.
The 7mm bullets are superior to any of the 6.5mm versions and can be launched at similar speeds but again, how much is that a concern for you with an effective range of 800 yards in the 308 that can
also be extended using premium/VLD bullets?

If one reloads the 308 cases can be used for the 308 or any of its derivates but with potential good deals in ammo including surplus and also super cheap brass or virtually free at the recycling bin
isn't that an advantage too for reloading? if you want to reload lighter bulltes and milder loads you also have great bulk options for bullets like the speer tnt and others.
Can also use 30 carbine TMJ value packs for plinking that should not be a problem for a bolt acition.
I am not saying go this way or another, simply some points to make one think.
Why the 223/5.56 would not work? In practical terms regarding trajectory one could be doing the same things one is going to be doing with twice the powder so also think about it in terms of heat,
recoil and expense. A match reamer o wylde chambers let you use amazing 223 loads not possible with smaller platforms.
I mean other than hunting certain animals and/or distance and/or in places the 223 is not allowed by law.
Again, things to consider. A service round is a service round after all. There are certain advantages.
If you need data on loads or trajectories I have in all those calibers mentioned btw.. this tests done over the years so first hand data. some amazing bullet choices no matter the direction you take.

Not even a little. My goal really is to become proficient out to 300 yards or so from field positions using open or aperture sights. I cut my teeth on a peep sight and over the years my skills there have become rusty. Also, I'm kinda of the opinion that things like use of iron sights and shooting from field positions are a dying art that I'd like to be one tiny part of preserving. Plus, punching paper through a scope off sandbags gets ultra-boring in a hurry.

The reason for the .308 over the .223, is I want to stay in the practice of dealing with an recoil.
 
I
Not even a little. My goal really is to become proficient out to 300 yards or so from field positions using open or aperture sights. I cut my teeth on a peep sight and over the years my skills there have become rusty. Also, I'm kinda of the opinion that things like use of iron sights and shooting from field positions are a dying art that I'd like to be one tiny part of preserving. Plus, punching paper through a scope off sandbags gets ultra-boring in a hurry.

The reason for the .308 over the .223, is I want to stay in the practice of dealing with an recoil.

I agree everyone should learn how to shoot with sights and be able to connect without to much trouble with a torso size target up to 500 meters/yards.
Personally for me I would choose a threaded barrel so you could integrate a very light front post with a small brake or front bleeding comp.
A single baffle shorty will be perfect and will bleed to the sides and up so you do not pickup dust when shooting prone. Some come tapped like AI but they
are expensive so one could tap it yourself and leave the barrel completely untouched. In the back a decent diopter system is hard to beat.
For me I would like a system that you could alternate sights and a glass with a mount that can assure return to zero.

For a low budget check out the savage 10fp for under 600. Cabelas has one the 10T with 24" barrel that used to land well below 450 after rebate.
These are the ones with the accustock that is not a super dooper chasis but it is a huge leap forward vs. the tupperware everybody else sells in
the budget rifles. These 10Ts and the FPs have been reviewed in many forums and sold like donuts and folks have reported very decent accuracy
out of the box. There is also the predator line (not the XP though) that has the accustock but a tad more money and not really anything different.
I think the nice about the fp tactical is that it comes threaded and you have a 20 inches if you like it to be compact. I think 21 or 22 would be the ideal
size but I would not mess with the barrel and get the threaded if it has to be 20 ok.

If I had a few more dollars I would seriously consdier the bergara B14 HMR in 308. It is a remington 700 action the way it should be made and with
features other aftermarket R700 actions costing x3 more. It leaves the SPS in the dust in terms of quality and features.
But a Savage will serve well with the package out of the box. Another great one is the hog hunter that comes with the sights and it lands you in
450 and can start shooting althoug at some point you want to put a couple of hundred dollars to toss away the factory tupperware stock for
one with some aluminum bedding. B&C makes the medalist that is possibly the best value on that class. I think this is not necessary right away
but at some point you might want to make the rifle as consistent as it can be and factory stocks are not good for that. But if you are serious
about good practices from day one and I woudl get a nice stock/chassis and get into the good habits. This way you can fit the rifle to your
complexity and style and make it comfortable and ready to drive.

There are so many formulas that you head might spin but like the 308 logic I would choose between the most popular actions on the planet
like the savage 10, r700 or a mauser type but those are going to be more money and no need.
Popular stuff might be boring but assures endless service and aftermarket support. Same with the service ammo and 308 that if not found in ammo during a crisis one
can always find components to reload and make it work.

Simple is good. Less is more in the end.

edit: I meant 10fpc.. otherwise check the 10T from cabelas. I just warn about the 24" barrel that makes it a heavier rifle. nothing bad but IMO different and in my case I like to compensate with some weight in the back to balance the rifle. Then it becomes more a heavy tactical rifle than a more compact handy one.

https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog...roducts_id/97912/Savage+10FCP-SR+308+20"+10RD

Hog hunter... this will need a mount in the back because those sights are not setup for long shots but at least the front one is ready. This would need more research. There are adapters for a mount and sights in the back.

https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog...4/products_id/78093/Savage+11+HOG+HNTR+308+TB

This is the bergara. Another workhorse in R700 blueprint. Hard to beat value too...

http://www.bergarausa.com/bergara_b-14_series_hmr_hunting_and_match_rifle.php

Good luck.
 
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LOL:
My understanding is this effort has not been renewed in light of .mil's newfound love of 300BO (spec ops procurement seems like the ultimate "ooh, squirrel!" type of customer as far as their small arms wants) and ...
TCB

I have been torn between buying Black Hills 77gr match for my lightweight DDM4 AR or moving to the 6.5 Grendel for deer. Got my Tax return and I'm out about $2500 for a really good custom build ultralight upper, 12 E-Lander magazines and 4K rounds of wolf 100gr ammo (I just ordered all of this yesterday). 4000 rds is likely a 4+ yr. supply as can shoot cheap 5.56 out of my current upper for practice.

Now granted, the Black Hills is probably 3x as accurate (sub-moa vs about 2 moa I reckon) but I really need only minute-of-deer in East Tennessee I could only get about 2400 rds of the Black Hills ammo for the same price and it wouldn't be as effective for deer. I made a PDF comparing the two cartridges if anyone is interested.

Sort of the best possible 5.56 vs. the cheapest 6.5G comparison. The 6.5 can only go up from here while the 5.56 tops out with the Black Hills load IMHO.
 

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  • 6.5 Grendel (100gr) vs 5.56 (77gr) Long Range Comparison.pdf
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I recently handled one of those Howa mini's in 6.5 Grendel and while it's a cute little rifle and no doubt accurate, I really didn't care for the way the magazine protrudes below the action. That was a deal breaker for me. Very awkward to carry in the field IMO but if that doesn't bother you then I think it's a great little gun.

I reload, so no caliber really worries me that much. I like the 7.62x39 and the 6.5 Grendel. I wish they had done a 7x39, but the Grendel is close enough.
 
I recently handled one of those Howa mini's in 6.5 Grendel and while it's a cute little rifle and no doubt accurate, I really didn't care for the way the magazine protrudes below the action. That was a deal breaker for me. Very awkward to carry in the field IMO but if that doesn't bother you then I think it's a great little gun.

I reload, so no caliber really worries me that much. I like the 7.62x39 and the 6.5 Grendel. I wish they had done a 7x39, but the Grendel is close enough.
The cz magazine protrudes like that too, its the only thing I don't like about the 527. What I wish is that there was a 6mm Grendel...
 
there is, its called the 6mm PPC

with the new large extension ars coming out, there is also the 7mm BR that would basically duplicate a 7 Grendel.
I cant find a decent cartridge drawing of the 7 Valk, but its probably pretty close to the 7mm BR, actually.
 
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With this old is new again fad going around im actually mildly surprised someone hasnt resurrected the PPCs as the latest and greatest....i i mean, you wouldnt even need to rename them, they already sound cool lol.
 
I have come to really like the 6.5 Grendel. Hunted with the cartridge pretty much exclusively the past three years. Late to the game, I know.

I shoot the Barnes 100 grain TTSX at just over 2700 fps pushed by RL15 for deer and hogs. I have a few Hornady factory cases, but most are formed from 7.62x39.

The Rifles are an AR with a 20" Satern barrel and the Howa 1500 Mini Action, also with a 20" barrel. Both are extremely accurate, shooting less than MOA.

I hunt mostly from the loft at the family farm. Overlooks a field and shots can range out to over 300 yards. All my shots have been from between about 50 yards to maybe 250 yards. No deer has taken more than one shot.

The 6.5 Grendel with the Barnes TTSX is up to the task.
 
I think the 6.5G is going to grow in popularity now that the licensing has been released but the 224 Valkyrie is the new hotness and seems to be catching on much faster.
 
The cz magazine protrudes like that too, its the only thing I don't like about the 527. What I wish is that there was a 6mm Grendel...

@LoonWulf mentioned the 6 ppc, but there is also a 243LBC.

The Grendel wasn’t on the market a week before someone wildcatted it down to 6mm, and I’m pretty easily convinced someone had done a relatively similar cartridge years before, wildcatting the x39 itself to 6mm.
 
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