AR-15 Article

What is your intended purpose for your AR?

If your friend snail mailed you a paper magazine article in 2016-2018, he’s not really your friend!

Get a Colt 6920 or 6720. Why? Because your stated needs fall in the "General Purpose" category and would be best suited with a GP AR. You can't get a better GP AR for the money than the Colt 6920 or 6720. Both are the quickest way to get up and shooting.

Someone will come along and try to get you to narrow up your wants, another to get you to buy "something cheaper" and yet another will suggest "build exactly what you want". Trouble is, you don't know what you want in an AR, except to be a GP rifle, because you don't have much (if any) experience shooting an AR.

So your choices boil down to two, at this point. Either get one of the two Colts, a pile of ammo and magazines and get to trouble free shooting right away. Or, you can wade through the dozens of conflicting replies that are sure to follow (including those that will accuse me of being just another Colt fanboi) and suffer from analysis paralysis, confusion, and not do any shooting for weeks.

Cynical? Yes. Yes, I am. I've seen it happen in too many threads on too many forums.

Hard to go wrong with a Colt LE6920 for ~ $750 as your first AR-15. As MistWolf said, with a bunch of ammo and several magazines you would be ready to go.

Daniel Defense, LWRC, Colt, Bravo Company and Primary Weapon Systems are all great. I really like several of the new offerings from LWRC and DD.

MistWolf’s response is excellent for the reasons cited. Attend a defensive carbine class with the gun. You will learn through the process of that class what you want and need in a rifle.

PWS is the best way to go, but they cost $$$$

And, by “a bunch of magazines” that means 20-25 or more.

Do not forget a sling. I really like this one:

https://www.blueforcegear.com/vickers-sling

Well your choices boil to two Colts...
In America, that on it's face is hilarious.

No point in any further discussion, huh? Might as well close it? Any other point of view is flawed, eh?

With the myriad of manufacturers producing ARs, at every price point and quality level under the Sun, waiting a week to explore them some, instead of just rushing out to buy a Colt, seems prudent.

A "GP" AR will be the same, any maker, any day. The extra two hundred fifty dollars to get a horse on the side is just that. A Smith and Wesson will be cheaper and a Savage MSR will be nicer and both will have a better warranty.

Would I pay extra for the pony? No. I paid extra for a pirate flag!

Are Colts nice? Yeah. Are they special? Nope.

I would suggest getting a complete rifle from one of the many reputable companies. Do your research on them before buying.

A good GP rifle would be a rifle with a 16” barrel with fixed front sight base along with a decent rear sight and possibly a good red dot sight if you want. Keep it simple for your first rifle.

I have bought and also built quite a few AR rifles from multiple companies. There are quite a few good factory rifles available from all the different makers.

Also don’t get stuck on advertising stating that their rifles meet or beat military specs. Military Specs are a bare minimum and made by the cheapest bidder.

andrewdl007 said:

Hi,

A while ago a friend of mine mailed me a magazine article on the best AR-15 for different situations (defense, target, etc.). It was from the last year or so but I cannot remember when exactly or even that the magazine was. Does this sound familiar to anyone?

I am looking to possibly pick up an AR and I thought the article was pretty clear. I like the simpler traditional looking models of AR-15. (Too bad the AR-18s are rare, those are my favorite)

Thanks

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Try a search for The American Rifleman. The American Rifleman has many of it's articles posted on the NRA website.

However you can get very good information here on the THR.

andrewdl007 said:

The purpose would be a mix of target and home defense. I’m not looking to compete or hunt with it. I would say I am more partial to the classic looking ARs. I like Colt’s AR15A4 but I just don’t know how good Colt’s recent quality is.

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Colt is way, way, way overpriced and overrated. Plus it is in bankruptcy again so one can only imagine what the attitude of the workers are.

There are many, many less expensive and higher quality AR's to choose from.

If you are d-I-y type it is fairly easy to build one yourself. I decided to build a basic, inexpensive AR last Fall just to see what the results would be. I used a Anderson lower, complete PSA Freedom build kit that used Magpul MOE handguard, grip and buttstock and spurged on a Magpul endplate that has a sling swivel. With PMC 55 gr. FMJ it puts 4 four rounds touching with three in the same hole at 25 yards and that is using Magpul BUIS. Winter set in before I could do long range shooting but the 25 yard results gives me a lot of confidence of it's capability at 100 yards.

My total cost was $430.00. And I will go head-to-head with the Colt any day of week with it.

Since you want classic looking AR PSA has complete uppers that have the traditional military handguard along with the grip and buttstock.

PSA also sells complete rifles.

Oh PSA stands for Palmetto State Armory.

There are a lot of factory complete rifles available starting a $500.00. S&W desires a hard look. Life-time warranty and good reputation. Cabelas runs them on sale frequently.

Ruger is another one with good reputation. Atwoods Farm Supply ran it on sale about 3 weeks ago for $499.00. (I know Atwoods does not have stores in Virginia but you can check other Farm and Ranch Supply stores In your area. Here guns and ammo are sold along with the horse feed and chickens.) My point is it is not hard to buy a new factory rifle for $500.00 where I live.

As commented the AR needs magazines...the more the better. Spend $500.00 for a rifle and use the difference between the Colt to buy magazines and ammo.

If your on a budget on of the dpms oracles at $400 is kinda a steal. Simple basic AR.
Very light weight.

I prefer the flat tops and you can add sights or an optic. You may not though. I also prefer light weight.

Wow, asking a question like that on a forum... you're going to get a billion opinions because there's about a billion of us! To keep my answer real simple... PERSONALLY, I don't think you can go wrong if you simply get one that appeals to you, that is one of the major manufacturers. And one that stands behind their product. There's a lot of them out there.

MistWolf said:

Get a Colt 6920 or 6720. Why? Because your stated needs fall in the "General Purpose" category and would be best suited with a GP AR. You can't get a better GP AR for the money than the Colt 6920 or 6720. Both are the quickest way to get up and shooting.

Someone will come along and try to get you to narrow up your wants, another to get you to buy "something cheaper" and yet another will suggest "build exactly what you want". Trouble is, you don't know what you want in an AR, except to be a GP rifle, because you don't have much (if any) experience shooting an AR.

So your choices boil down to two, at this point. Either get one of the two Colts, a pile of ammo and magazines and get to trouble free shooting right away. Or, you can wade through the dozens of conflicting replies that are sure to follow (including those that will accuse me of being just another Colt fanboi) and suffer from analysis paralysis, confusion, and not do any shooting for weeks.

Cynical? Yes. Yes, I am. I've seen it happen in too many threads on too many forums.

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This ^^

The first response had me giggling.

I assume that traditional means one of two things, either an m16a2 style gun, or an m4 styled gun. That’s your first point to clarify. Essentially, do you want a fixed shoulder stock (a2) or do you want collapsible (m4).

Traditional also insinuates a “carry handle” gun which is oddly hard to find and expensive as that is not currently the stylish trend. If you want the handle, your better off buying a “flat top” gun and a detachable “handle” which incorporates the rear sights. If this is the case you want a gun with a pinned gas block with front sight tower. If you choose to swap to a scope then no worries, most telescopic sights somehow manage to look right through the front sight post...don’t ask how because I don’t understand it but I have seen it and done it.

Now, as far as brand goes, they are all so similar that it’s hard to pinpoint what is better or worse. Some brands use parts built to tight tolerances and you pay for those tolerances. These guns are super reliable usually. Daniel Defense and others are here...$1000+ Some brands use really open tolerances and you get a discount for a more relaxed “no-go” policy. These guns are super reliable usually, but there is a better chance of tolerance stacking creating an issue or problem with the gun. PSA and Anderson Rifles are here (and I like them both but I’m not new to ARs) 500ish or cheaper guns.... Then last but not least there is the group of competitive brands who sit in the middle. Tight enough tolerances you don’t have issues but not so tight as to drive up prices. This is where you want to be. Colt is here, but your paying part of your money for a horse stamped on the side. S&W is here, Ruger is here...most of your 600ish dollar guns are here. Just pick one with features you like and buy it.

Mags are as important as the gun itself. Steel or aluminum mags are usually ok at best. Magpul is the cream of the crop on plastic mags and they are cheap enough to not cause a fuss. Buy several, these are durable and more reliable than anything else on the market.

Moral of this post, colts are ok but by buying a colt your setting fire to a hundred dollar bill.

A2 style rifles are a lot harder to find than you'd think, given the glut of everything AR nowadays.

There are a couple places that will sell you a flat-top rifle with a carry handle screwed on, but I don't know where you can buy any where the carry handle is built on to the receiver.

Get a name brand you know and trust. S&W, Ruger, Colt. I would avoid anything in the 400$ range, but 650$ can buy you a decent shooter.
I would also be sure the BARREL is listed for 5.56 caliber ammo. This way you can safely shoot 5.56, and .223. Building, retrofitting, and customizing
on these rifles isn't difficult, but you'll need a small shop (or at least a table with a medium vise) and about 150$ worth of AR armorer's tools.

tomrkba said:

And, by “a bunch of magazines” that means 20-25 or more.

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20-25 magazines for

andrewdl007 said:

The purpose would be a mix of target and home defense.

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Do you have 10 sets of tires for your car too?

Varminterror said:

20-25 magazines for





Do you have 10 sets of tires for your car too?

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May need them to trade for stuff! Remember how high they got after sandy hook?

I keep 3 per Gun. The rest are investments.
The only mags I’ve ever had “wear out” were the saiga 308 surefires that the lips would crack on.

A couple of points for those who think an unnecessary to pony up for a Colt:
Colt has developed the best extractor spring for the M4. Second best would be the Sprinco extractor spring. Few brands use the Colt spring or the Sprinco spring. One exception is Sionics. They use a Sprinco spring. It's been my experience that extractor springs in other brands don't last long. Every non-Colt extractor spring I've used, including PSA, starting showing signs of failing before I had 500 rounds through the AR.

Another point is most non-Colt ARS is that they tend to be over gassed. An over gassed AR stresses extractor springs. Combine that with a weak spring to begin with and you'll soon have problems.

My question for those who tell others to not pay for the pony, do you know how to properly diagnose AR malfunctions? Can you recognize the often subtle signs of an extractor spring starting to fail? Can you help the guy you convinced to not buy an "over priced" Colt troubleshoot his new AR? I've followed more than a few threads about solving malfunctions in ARs and quite frankly, too many posters have no clue.

Colts are not always perfect from the factory, but they do have a better track record than other ARs that don't carry the dreaded Pony Premium. Very few "Help Me Fix My AR" threads involve factory Colts. All too often, the money saved by not ponying up for a Colt is spent on time, ammo and money trying to diagnose and fix the "as good as" AR.

Considering how many colt are out there compared to every other brand thats not a horrible surprise. Id actually bet that individually theres very few complaints against most if not all the majors.
Still tho if buying a Colt makes you feel better about the purchase than theres nothing wrong with buying the Colt.

Ive been very happy with my spare parts ar builds, and my premium builds, and the uppers ive bought from Radical and PSA, all have been very reliable and generally accurate.
But again thats me, and what makes me comfortable and happy.

Ive also learned after getting a few thousand dollars in that ARs arnt really my cup of tea. Havent come close to getting my money back on any of it, so id say spending the extra on your first one to get brand name and what you want, may not be a bad idea. Resale on the Colts seems a bit higher than average.

Assuming you are going to have 30 round mags ready for home defense? If that is the case only load 26 rounds in the mags as the vast majority of malfunctions are feed cycle failures in the first two to three rounds. For 20 round mags I load 18 rounds.
Also be advised not all commercial ammo will feed correctly in the AR system. CIP one of the Federal Agencies(about 25 years back) got like 100,000 rds of 55 gr. HP and had all kinds of stoppages and complained to the vendor who told them that round was designed for bolt guns. For home defense I would get the MILSPEC ammo you see at lots of places these days.
Also be advised MILSPEC ammo exhibits the highest terminal effects in the first 95 yards. After that the terminal performance drops off quickly.

Robert said:

My AR is built for left over parts on a RRA upper and lower with a Colt barrel. No name bcg and stock trigger group. After multiple thousands of rounds I've yet to see a drop in performance or experience a single non ammo/mag related failure. Yes you can buy peace of mind but in today's market you don't have to spend an arm and a leg.

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I’d agree 10 years ago there was a serious reason to buy name brand AR15 rifles. What’s on the shelf for purchase today is incredible for the value. Today it’s valid to expect 1.5 MoA accuracy from a $500 AR, and I’d say flawless performance after it’s been cleaned 3 times.
I’d love to see a torcher test on say a $400 dpms vs a $700 colt vs a $1200 Daniels. Run 100 rounds through for break in and clean em a couple times. Then go to town on say a initial accuracy test, several 100 round rapid fire sets. Check accuracy again at 1000. Then shoot them till they quit.

MistWolf wrote:
Colt has developed the best extractor spring for the M4.

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Is that just your opinion or are there published, scientifically valid tests that establish this?

It's been my experience that extractor springs in other brands don't last long. Every non-Colt extractor spring I've used, including PSA, starting showing signs of failing before I had 500 rounds through the AR.

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500 rounds is long in the rear view mirror on both my sons' non-Colt ARs and they are having no problems with them.

Another point is most non-Colt ARS is that they tend to be over gassed.

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Again, is this opinion and empirical observation or is there anything out there to show someone measured the gas flow from a sample of Colts and compared it to a number of samples from other makers?

My question for those who tell others to not pay for the pony, do you know how to properly diagnose AR malfunctions?

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My sons have not had any malfunctions with their ARs, so there's been nothing to diagnose. The men's group at church has a number of AR owners - only one Colt owner - and none of them have reported any malfunctions that were not attributable to cheap magazines

Colts are not always perfect from the factory, but they do have a better track record than other ARs that don't carry the dreaded Pony Premium.

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Again, something other than a "naked assertion" would be nice.

Bottom line is that despite all the sowing of Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt, nothing has been cited beyond unsubstantiated opinion to establish that the "dreaded Pony Premium" is doing anything more than paying the bills of its bankruptcy attorneys.

Finally, just how much reliance should someone put on Colt when the Army stripped them of the contract to make (most) M4 rifles citing "persistent reliability problems" back in 2013?