.....say something - report it to the authorities (just not the FBI because they will take no action). Is it me or are we being fed a steady diet of what our government really is; a conveyor belt of tax money to enrich the government and their power - how many zillions of dollars does competent performance cost? Moments of silence, news updates with all the political faces that thank each other for their stellar performance after the massacre. To me, it is a sickening sight to listen to the garbage the elected officals feed us to cover up the literal - the literal being that they are predominately over paid and over glorified janitors - always four minutes too late but, they will clean up the mess and pat each other on the back. And oh yes, blame everything on the guns. When things in my mind are put in perspective, they are a real joke. It must be me.
If You See Something....
- Thread starter Steve S.
- Start date
- Status
greenmtnguy
Member
There certainly seems to be a rapidly growing body of evidence that there were ample opportunities for both the FBI - who were given warnings/tips months ago from the blogger, and last month's FBI tip line calls, as well as local law enforcement to have had some sort of preventative intervention. Hindsight is 20/20 of course, but it seems to me like there were numerous warnings, and calls for service at the 19y.o perpetrator's home, which could have been connected and resulted in ... something.
We may be reluctant to report someone with an interest in firearms, but I hope we can tell the difference between a healthy and unhealthy interest and when coupled with threatening behavior and menacing statements we wouldn't sit on our hands.
We had better be paying attention to our communities and neighborhoods and be willing to speak up with we see someone that isn't one of us, the vast majority of good gun owners, acting in a way we think is threatening. We'd report suspicious possible activity in a heartbeat, but isn't the behavior of this young man just another form of suspicious possible criminal activity?
We had better be paying attention to our communities and neighborhoods and be willing to speak up with we see someone that isn't one of us, the vast majority of good gun owners, acting in a way we think is threatening. We'd report suspicious possible activity in a heartbeat, but isn't the behavior of this young man just another form of suspicious possible criminal activity?
Redacted
Member
Why is it that the people who are telling us if we SEE something to SAY something are the very same people having a hard time DOING something?
DT Guy
Member
- Joined
- Feb 23, 2003
- Messages
- 1,836
The FBI also investigated, and cleared, the San Bernardino shooter or his family. They've missed quite a few high-profile opportunities lately.
Larry
guyfromohio
Member
Washington, Oregon, and California do it right. All you have to do is acuse someone of stalking or some other unhealthy behavior and they confiscate the guns. Oh wait...is that what we really want? These tragedies are sickening, but I don't want a country that punishes based on could, may, might...thought...words....etc. I don't know the answer and I don't know if there is an answer in a free society. With freedom, comes risk.
CapnMac
Member
I will not be surprised if we see schools adopt a "clear bags only" policy similar to the nfl's (and many other stadium operators') policy.
I've noticed a stunning silence on the "how" the weapon was acquired.
The fact that, once again, no one in a bureaucracy was willing to actually do their job, is much glossed over in the calls to "ban all tools of war!!11!!" (this despite the fact that there are 10-15 million AR out there who harm no one at all, vice the 20-30 that have--sigh).
Why is it that all our schoolchildren, particularly the troubled ones, all "know" what to do? You get on your face book and "join" hate groups; you post detailed threats and plans; then you steal an AR and shoot up the school. Done. The Germans put a stop to that (so far)--but I'm loathe to suggest every school district in the US follow suit.
I did see a notion that what we could do is to amend the domestic violence statutes to include a threat to a school, schoolchildren, or teachers. Which would then allow issuing a TRO. That's smacks a bit too much of the California "swat'em" rule; but, at least give a due process method to cope (sorta/kinda;ugh, I cringe)
I've noticed a stunning silence on the "how" the weapon was acquired.
The fact that, once again, no one in a bureaucracy was willing to actually do their job, is much glossed over in the calls to "ban all tools of war!!11!!" (this despite the fact that there are 10-15 million AR out there who harm no one at all, vice the 20-30 that have--sigh).
Why is it that all our schoolchildren, particularly the troubled ones, all "know" what to do? You get on your face book and "join" hate groups; you post detailed threats and plans; then you steal an AR and shoot up the school. Done. The Germans put a stop to that (so far)--but I'm loathe to suggest every school district in the US follow suit.
I did see a notion that what we could do is to amend the domestic violence statutes to include a threat to a school, schoolchildren, or teachers. Which would then allow issuing a TRO. That's smacks a bit too much of the California "swat'em" rule; but, at least give a due process method to cope (sorta/kinda;ugh, I cringe)
Or we could just get rid of gun free zones. Seems they are always the target. As long as we're dreaming.
danez71
Member
There's a bit more to it than that in CA.
I get what your saying but we all promote situational awareness, right ?
It's no different.
If it looks, acts, and sounds like a duck, I have no problem saying 'theres a duck right there'.
MachIVshooter
Member
There's quite a bit of room in between confiscating weapons because a spiteful ex makes a phone call, and doing nothing after more than 3 dozen police contacts, 2 separate reports to the FBI, and a plethora of self-incriminating social media posts & statements including direct threats to the safety of others.
No, we don't take away someone's rights because they made an off-color remark or an idle threat once, but in this case and many before it, there was plenty of warning that the perpetrator was a dangerous individual who, at the very least, warranted some extra attention from the authorities.
primalmu
Member
While I certainly agree with your sentiment on a whole, a few of my friends have made a good point that its unrealistic that the best solution would be to arm our teachers when funding for our public schools is so bad that teachers are forced to buy school supplies for their students out of their own pockets. (Besides, arming our teachers would necessitate public-funded training programs at the very least.)
Again, I agree with the whole gun-free zone argument wholeheartedly, but in many of these instances better school funding/instruction and intervention (to address the mental health side of this equation) would be a more effective solution than turning our teachers into a police force.
I didn't mean to suggest that we arm teachers, just that we remove the restriction. Not knowing who may be armed I believe is the best deterrent. Allow teachers who get a permit to carry. Or janitors, or cafeteria staff, maintenance, etc. No additional funding required.
The FL shooter knew there was an armed LE in the school and that certainly wasn't a deterrent. We need to look at the schools where the shootings took place and determine how many armed LE were on duty in the school and how many were on the site and response times to the school as part of a constructive discussion of the benefit of having personnel armed in schools. Next we need to look at the fact that almost no teacher is willing to carry a gun in school because of the full time responsibility of trying to teach and manage 30+ kids at a time vs. the responsibility of managing a firearm safely. We have endless threads on "what holster" and "I can't carry comfortably" so we have to look at the practical considerations. If we want armed security in schools they need to be professionals who are trained. To that end we may want to have satellite precinct offices at schools so officers serving an area have a place to park, an office to complete "paperwork" or take a break as well as "resource officers" stationed out of the office. It will require additional staffing and real expenses to make the space suitable, but it would increase the LE presence.
Exactly my point, he knew there was an armed security officer. Imagine if he didn't know who else maybe armed. You are right about most teachers not wanting to be armed. But could he have been sure? That is my point. If school personnel "may" be armed, it might just provide enough deterrent. At zero extra cost.
greenmtnguy
Member
Another point regarding the armed security officer though - apparently this school is fairly large and is comprised of several buildings. No one experienced in security will tell you that you can effectively secure multiple buildings with a single guard and no outer perimeter access control. Then again, school budgets are often lucky if they can afford to keep 1 armed officer on the school grounds, much less one for every building, or every ~800 students. I suspect that the shooter, who had previously attended the school, knew what building the officer would be in, or which end of the building, and planned accordingly to avoid crossing paths.
Jim Watson
Member
Zero? Hardly. A state representative here is introducing a bill to arm faculty and staff. 40 hours of training to APOST standard, psych evaluation, annual qualification, pretty much the same as a cop. Since all teachers consider themselves overworked and underpaid, where is the time and money to come from? Who furnishes the gun and ammo?
Then there is inclination. The mommies interviewed were doubtful and the teachers asked were definitely against. This is not a surprise, a huge majority of teachers are women and the products of the flaming liberal university culture. I know one teacher who would fight for her students, but she would also complain about the demand on her time.
See, we can't just allow teachers who have already obtained a LTC to just carry at school. We must come up with a special training program (money), psych evals. (Money), annual requals (money). Always have to make it a big program. Any suggestion to just allow those to carry as they would outside of school is always met with a program. Seem if someone is vetted to carry a concealed weapon, we shouldn't need to make it more restrictive because they are a teacher.
I also know 3 teachers that do carry and would carry at school were it allowed. Yes, they are rare as hens teeth.
danez71
Member
Horse Hocky to a few of you.
Quit inventing stuff in effort to prove your point(s) that something can't happen.
Three school districts in CA allow teachers to conceal carry with a permit on campus with kids.
The school districts in CA have the ability to give exceptions to allow the teachers to do so.
Google it.
There is no State paid training and psych evals and other nonsense stuff you guys say is a sure thing to happen.
If CA can do it so can the other more free states.
(Note: some state legislatures do want to stop it)
Jiminy Crickets... some of you seem like you don't want any success in our favor and work to make sure it doesn't even get a chance rather than working to make it happen.
Shame.
Quit inventing stuff in effort to prove your point(s) that something can't happen.
Three school districts in CA allow teachers to conceal carry with a permit on campus with kids.
The school districts in CA have the ability to give exceptions to allow the teachers to do so.
Google it.
There is no State paid training and psych evals and other nonsense stuff you guys say is a sure thing to happen.
If CA can do it so can the other more free states.
(Note: some state legislatures do want to stop it)
Jiminy Crickets... some of you seem like you don't want any success in our favor and work to make sure it doesn't even get a chance rather than working to make it happen.
Shame.
It's just you.
You hear about it every time law enforcement fails to detect someone like the Parkland or Las Vegas shooter. Every time law enforcement succeeds, you don't hear about it because 1) it's not newsworthy, and 2) law enforcement doesn't want to tell people how they caught the guy lest the next guy planning something learn to do it differently.
RETG
Member
Teachers with a Utah permit can carry in Utah public schools. I know a few who do, and two are ex-marines. The get no extra pay, it is their weapons and they have no specialized training. And from what I was told, Utah does not even require any range time to obtain a permit.
You should provide a link to such an assertion instead of simply telling others to accept or "Google" the information.
danez71
Member
This article is 19 hrs old
https://www.google.com/amp/www.lati...hool-armed-20180222-story.html?outputType=amp
This link names the school districts in CA.
https://www.google.com/amp/www.lati...-on-campus-20160413-story.html?outputType=amp
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
