Trump: Take Guns Before Due Process

Deanimator said:

Germans and Italians weren't interned without reference to citizenship status or conduct.

Japanese-Americans were sent to racial concentration camps completely without regard to their citizenship or activities.

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Yep, and I knew many of them and grew up with their kids.

RETG said:

It's not that he will hurt us, it is not that any of his ludicrous statements will ever become law, it is the fact that the president of the USA acts like a moron on TV. I voted for him, but watching him on TV makes me wonder why.
I understand he loves grandstanding in his round table gatherings but really, does he think about what he is saying?
He would be a lot better president, in my opinion, if he stopped grandstanding on TV and loving to hear himself speak. Just govern, Donald.

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I agree with your statements. The majority of the Republican Party has finally come to the consensus that results matter more than Trump’s grandstanding. Every successful person I have known has had a big ego; it’s a major factor in providing drive and perseverance. Trump is no politician; the American public did not want one. His success is more important to me than the bumbling buffoon he often projects.

RETG said:

It's not that he will hurt us, it is not that any of his ludicrous statements will ever become law, it is the fact that the president of the USA acts like a moron on TV. I voted for him, but watching him on TV makes me wonder why.

I understand he loves grandstanding in his round table gatherings but really, does he think about what he is saying?

He would be a lot better president, in my opinion, if he stopped grandstanding on TV and loving to hear himself speak. Just govern, Donald.

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President Trump is outspoken, blunt and raw in his statements. He rarely makes carefully crafted statements that say nothing. He is brash and refuses to apologize for being an American and putting America first. He has sat the world on it’s heels with his no more business as usual deals.

What the media never reports is he is often correct in his statements. Look at all of the corruption and illegal activity that is coming out about the FBI and DNC during the campaign.

His core group supports him because we are tired of the corrupt, status quo two party system that is only concerned about who is in power, not about what is best for the average American citizen.

Bigmike79 said:

You choose the best candidate that can actually win, not the one you like the best.

If Trump is able to put another conservative justice into play before he leaves office, it will buy us another 20 years. He might need a second term to do that. Enough with this silly talk of not voting for him in 2020.

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AHA! You made a statement that I agree with completely. Trump even said during his campaign that we needed to vote for him just for the Supreme Court appointments alone. He has kept his word on that issue.

Ginsburg will never retire from the Supreme Court. She intends to die in office. There are reliable reports that she is in frail health, falls asleep during oral arguments, her law clerks are researching and writing her opinions for her and she is only working for a few hours each day.

Kennedy is the most likely member to leave the bench soon. A Trump appointment will move the Court in a more Conservative position. Chief Justice Roberts is not to be trusted.

freyasman said:

We've been screwed over so many times, and backstabbed so often, why would we trust anyone?

I agree that it's early to panic, though..... but I will keep a close eye on this.

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Доверяй, но проверяй, Doveryai, no proveryai – Trust but verify.

We need to keep a eye on the Trump Administration and remind of his support by gun owners. Who knows what kind of advice he is getting. With that said he has done nothing to harm gun owners and he is dealing with a crappy poker hand.

"Take their guns away" was probably in regard to the mentally unbalanced.

But even this is a huge quagmire, unless the term can somehow be defined.

Mixed Nuts: I just (now) noticed that you also concluded that mental health was the entire context which Trump meant. He Really should have clarified it in the same breath.
It's very doubtful that Trump ever meant any general gun confiscation ("Take the guns first..."), in the same way stated by former Attorney General Janet Reno--but which She truly believed in.

When there are clear indications that somebody with a high police profile and a record of personal threats also comments on wanting to shoot people, keeping their hands away from any weapon seems to be a good idea.
But there is no legal method to do so in what looks like an impending emergency, is there?

And Trump and VP Pence have had a meeting with the NRA and it appears, at least, this crisis is no more....

I think a lot of people who voted for Trump, but have slowly been developing the sense that his administration is a mess, would feel better about things if they just stopped watching the nightly news. The mainline media is an enemy force and whenever I accidentally connect to their reporting it’s always the same rerunning claims that Trump’s administration is in unprecedented disarray. And that he’s failing to fulfill his promises.

We’re all better off keeping track of what actually happens in terms of appointments, administrative orders, and lawmaking. And so far, there has been good stuff from Trump.

When we get demoralized about the way Trump handles the lawmaking process and we look to commiserate with someone regarding our disappointment, CNN and company are only too happy to help. The problem with that, of course, is that they hate us – and I mean they hate right leaning gun owners.

I think there are two things we can bank on for the next few years. One is that Trump will not preemptively attack North Korea. And the other is that he will not sponsor an assault weapons ban.

As for the discussion about taking guns without due process, we just need to wait and see. In the case of Nicholas Cruz, the guy called the police on himself at least once. If calling the police on oneself becomes the necessary factor for gun confiscation I could probably live with that.

First, I should say that I didn't vote for Trump (I didn't vote for Hillary, either*).

While I am concerned about the Second Amendment, I am getting more concerned about the Fifth Amendment: "No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

This makes two Presidents in a row that don't seem to understand a fairly straightforward statement. Obama with his "no-fly, no-buy" list; now Trump with seizure first; due process later.

I recall what Donald Trump told the NRA convention last April. The NRA's "true friend and champion in the White House" has now thrown the NRA under the bus. He called for a the government to follow an unconstitutional path to deprivation of civil rights by innuendo without allowing the citizen to argue in their own defense.

It doesn't matter whether you are a Trump supporter or not. In fact, it might even be better if you do support him. All of us who are gun owners need to contact our representatives and let them know where we stand.

*I voted for Gary Johnson and Bill Weld; not because of their party but because of the jobs they did as governors. It was one of the easiest decisions I ever made. Anyone that thinks Hillary would have made a better President is delusional and hasn't considered the outcome of the Congressional elections. Heck, Hillary could have been pro-gun and I still wouldn't have voted for her.

TexasBill said:

First, I should say that I didn't vote for Trump (I didn't vote for Hillary, either).

While I am concerned about the Second Amendment, I am getting more concerned about the Fifth Amendment: "No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

This makes two Presidents in a row that don't seem to understand a fairly straightforward statement. Obama with his "no-fly, no-buy" list; now Trump with seizure first; due process later.

I recall what Donald Trump told the NRA convention last April. The NRA's "true friend and champion in the White House" has now thrown the NRA under the bus. He called for a the government to follow an unconstitutional path to deprivation of civil rights by innuendo without allowing the citizen to argue in their own defense.

It doesn't matter whether you are a Trump supporter or not. In fact, it might even be better if you do support him. All of us who are gun owners need to contact our representatives and let them know where we stand.

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There is a lot of good sense in this intelligent post. But, it is worth noting that the Trump administration has not yet sponsored any legislation that would enable the seizure of privately owned firearms without due process. Obama's admin did have and enforce a "no fly" list. The distinction is significant.

Your advice about contacting congresspersons is excellent.

When people get tired of FantasyLand, USA and desire to come back to RealVille . An agenda is marching forward have YOU called your Fed and State Reps, Senators, the WhiteHouse and voiced your position, lately????
It's not a teeter totter life folks. Only politicians try to straddle the fence yet not hurt themselves

What if Hillary Clinton had won the election and said the exact same words with a smiling Dianne Feinstein sitting beside her?
"I like taking guns away early," Clinton said. "Take the guns first, go through due process second."
Would the conversation in this thread be different?

Not that I know much about them , but the more I read, the Libertarians seem to make the most sense . It's a shame they can't become a major player in Government . lets face it I got the impression that trump changes his postions as the wind blows .The place he has down the most seems to be where money and wealth are concerned , no body seems to notice that, as we seem to focus on those issues that galvanize us, the anti immigration and the 2nd a for the most of us .
I don't think the man is and idiot , but he is no mensa either , he doesn't seem to be smart enough to play chess with the media and the house .
As far as our elected officials are concerned , i can't stand the Democrats , and the Republicans are more worried about making more money then taking care of us .
In a lot of states they already practice confiscation , if you ever get a pfa against you , they make you turn them over or dispose of them , no due process , not proof needed , and then try to get them back if it's an unfounded accusation . In this case if they have to go that way handle it that way , but damn it if your falsely accused , the accuser should be made to pay somehow

I'm afraid a hard lesson is being learned by the gun community: don't put your faith in glib promises made just to get your vote.

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Even harder if your a politician. We gave them control of the House, Senate and POTUS after Clinton’s AWB, they didn’t do anything proactive, just let it sunset, then they lost all 3.

The comming elections are going to be difficult enough for them, won’t have a chance if they alienate “gun votes”.

Millamber457 said:

Not that I know much about them , but the more I read, the Libertarians seem to make the most sense . It's a shame they can't become a major player in Government .

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We are the most pro-gun party. Take some time to read our platform.

The political system is too rigged and corrupt for us to get serious attention in the Presidential elections. Our successes are in the States and some Representatives in the House.

Libertarians are for the large reduction of the size of the Federal Government and many laws. This includes the legalization of marijuana which the majority of people still believe is a harmful drug that causes people to commit crimes and evil acts. This ignorance scares voters away.

Trump is more a Independent but he had to join the Republican Party to get elected.

BSA1 said:

Libertarians are for the large reduction of the size of the Federal Government and many laws. This includes the legalization of marijuana which the majority of people still believe is a harmful drug that causes people to commit crimes and evil acts. This ignorance scares voters away.

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At the risk of going a bit off-topic for a gun forum, I have to say that Libertarians have some good ideas (particularly on guns), but their ideological rigidity leads them to take extreme positions on things like drugs (legalize heroin) and immigration (open borders). This is why Libertarianism has no appeal to social conservatives.

Mixed Nuts said:

There is a lot of good sense in this intelligent post. But, it is worth noting that the Trump administration has not yet sponsored any legislation that would enable the seizure of privately owned firearms without due process. Obama's admin did have and enforce a "no fly" list. The distinction is significant.

Your advice about contacting congresspersons is excellent.

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Thanks! I did take my own advice before posting and called my U.S. Representative and one of my U.S. Senators (I couldn't get through to the other). With Congress back in session, you can call their Washington lines or their home-state offices.

Tommygunn said:

Yikes. Ms. Rice appears to have done a flip-flop. I will never vote for her.

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You won't ever get the chance to, Condi Rice wants nothing to do with politics, ever again.....not political type politics anyway. She wants to be Commissioner of the NFL.

As far as Trump goes, don't get your panties all in a bunch, guys! Haven't you learned by now that he often spouts off like that only to back off later. It's just a strategic maneuver to get the dems to show their true beliefs. And most of his inflammatory tweets are designed to irritate the press and elicit a response. He's playing those idiots like a fiddle, and they don't even realize it!!!

If the purchase age for all guns is raised to 21, give exemptions to an 18 year old that joins the service. Show your military ID and you can buy at 18. Being in the military and not being old enough to buy a gun already exists, anyway.

You can join the military at 17 with your parents permission.

I agree 100%. Look at the idiot in Florida. He was LEGALLY allowed to buy the weapons but shouldn't have owned them. There have been a few of these mass killers that had red flags but were still legal

You KNOW a kid(s) is violently unbalanced... and yet intentionally refuse to charge him with multiple offenses that would put him on a prohibited list... because it makes the political stats look bad.

Tell me ... who should be charged here for deliberately setting up a clear & present time bomb ?


.

BSA1 said:

Trump has done NOTHING to harm gun owners and SCORED a major pro-2A victory by successfully appointing Neil Gorsuch to the Supreme Court.

Why are some many THR members so weak of faith and myopic?

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Has Gorsuch been involved in a 2A ruling? How do we actually know his appointment is a victory?

Elkins45 said:

Has Gorsuch been involved in a 2A ruling? How do we actually know his appointment is a victory?

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I am optimistic about Gorsuch and hid decisions as a jurist on SCOTUS, but you are correct. I also would hope that Gorsuch would side with due process over "take the guns first and due process later" that this thread is about. This issue seems to be loosing steam, probably the reason President Trump announced his upcoming tariffs to get his words and picture back on the front page. President Trump might re-visit this but I think he has moved on, at least for now unless he gets to actually sign something.

We elected a Billionaire, Reality TV Star for President! I am concerned about his "take the guns first" comment but I'm not that surprised. Even the Democrats in the room couldn't top that one and not just because he is President.

Anyone in government who has is willing to utter something along the lines of what Trump said about due process has no place in government. Add in his statements about China's new "President for Life" being something "maybe we should try here sometime," and we are approaching a very dangerous point.

If the current President had a (D) next to their name instead of an (R), very few on this forum would be willing to say it was "tactic," "strategy," or "speaking off the cuff." Rather I think there'd be some VERY concerned discussions about maybe we are about to enter a period where the 2nd amendment serves what many of us feel it exists to do, prevent us from facing a tyrannical government bent on depriving us of our rights and liberties. He should not get a free pass because he allegedly is (R) and allegedly is pro-gun. We would NEVER give another person in the political system the benefit of the doubt, if they said due process to take our arms was unnecessary.

Even if the statements above are in fact wily attempts at misdirection, they go against core concepts of American culture and government and are not acceptable. If they are uttered today with no consequence (particularly from those who should be yelling the loudest) they will begin to become the new normal as they are repeated over and over again. Maybe not today or tomorrow, and it make take a couple of decades, but there will be a continual thread of due process being non-important and non-central the American legal system. The idea of electoral terms getting longer and longer, and term limits going away will be tossed around. This leads to a very dark place. I for one have no desire to go there, and no tolerance for those who are willing to take American ideals central to our legal system, government, and culture and throw them into the dust for political purposes. We have castigated, rallied, protested, and vilified those who have said far less from a position of far less power, yet we are willing to give a pass now?

I have contacted my elected officials including my state legislators, governor, senators, and representatives, with a slightly longer and personally directed version of the above.

-Jenrick

Jenrick; everything you said in your above post has merit. Especially the concern about the direction things are going and his comments going in the wrong direction. It came down to either Trump or Hillary with no other viable option by election time. I voted Trump and still think it was the better of the two candidates. We will see what our choices are in 2020 and beyond.

Gun ownership and the 2nd Amendment wasn't the reason Trump ran for President. Trump embracing the NRA and their support were both business decisions IMO.

DeepSouth said:

He’s going to end up being worse for gun owners than BHO was. At least they stood against him, now they’re falling like a house of cards. And for some insane reason a large part of the firearms community is ok with it.

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A lot of that has to do with the fact that he was a GOP candidate and people voted for him based on his association with the NRA and what he said. People have a hard time admitting they made a mistake. They don't have to admit it yet because nothing effectively has transpired but no doubt it will. All it takes is a few moderate GOP senators voting with the dems to get an AWB thru the senate and Trumps signature. Anyone here willing to bet he would veto an AWB bill? I wouldn't.

AlexanderA said:

Adding Feinstein's AWB to Toomey's bill would kill Toomey's bill. Anyone familiar with how these things work would know it's a poison pill, but I'm not sure Trump is that clued in. Two possibilities: either Trump is naive or he's fiendishly clever.

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--- Trump has short attention span and may very likely adopt the last person that he spoke with's veiwpoint.

BSA1 said:

Not all gun owners think concealed carry reciprocity is a good idea.

I think it is a horrible idea to allow the Federal Government regulate what is being done very successfully by the States using the 10th Amendment.

The biggest lie in America is "I am from the Government and I am here to help you."

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Well, Trump did use Nat'l Reciprocity as a come on in his campaign.

The right of self-defense doesn’t stop at the end of your driveway. That’s why I have a concealed carry permit and why tens of millions of Americans do too. That permit should be valid in all 50 states. A driver’s license works in every state, so it’s common sense that a concealed carry permit should work in every state. If we can do that for driving – which is a privilege, not a right – then surely we can do that for concealed carry, which is a right, not a privilege.

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https://assets.donaldjtrump.com/Second_Amendment_Rights.pdf

I don't think he actually supports it anymore. He hasn't said much about the bill in congress except he doesn't want to see another one. I think he's counting on it being defeated in the senate, which it will.

I don't think he actually supports much of anything the NRA is trying do now although he did accept 30 million dollars in ads supporting him. Probably the only way he got elected because his campaign didn't have a lot of money. His lack of support probably has to do with public sentiment and his never ending desire to be the most popular person on the planet. He is after all a populist president.

I agree with you about NR but a lot of people are being sold down the river with this president. I didn't vote for him because I knew he was a fraud from day one. He's proving me right. More to come.

https://qz.com/1217173/trump-wont-support-the-houses-nra-backed-concealed-carry-reciprocity-act/

There probably are some unintended consequences of his defection. Everyone gets to decide if it's good or bad. Most here will probably say it's bad.

I'm an NRA and SAF supporter.