Something between 7.62x39 and .308...

It is of mid range power, recoil (11 ft lbs, between 8 and 15 in the OP) velocity (2660 FPS) between the two cartridges listed. It is also of the same bullet diameter as the cartridges listed.

If 308 Reduced Recoil was instead brass head stamped with “.300 Tikka Carbine” would it meet the requested parameters?

This thread is really causing me way too much angst wondering why this question hasn’t been resolve yet. I really don’t see what the problem is with RR 308 unless it’s a head stamp problem, it’s literally what the OP requested.

For the exact same reason that people buy 22 hornets, 221 fireballs, and 222's instead of downloading a 223. Yes we all know there is reduced recoil 308 ammo and it can also be loaded as such. That's not the question that was asked, let's drop it please. If you don't want it or don't like the concept, fine, do something else.

someguy2800 said:

I don't think a 30 grendel exists, I just made up that term. The 30 ARX I posted would essentially be a "30 Grendel".

It would basically be an improved 7.62x39, but unlike the Ackley improved cartridges I don't think you could fire form it using standard 7.62x39 ammo since the headspace would be wrong. You would need to get 6.5 Grendel brass and run them through the 30 ARX sizing die to open up the neck, and load them.

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Id actually completely missed your earlier post about the ARX.

someguy2800 said:

The nice thing about the 7.62x40wt is the 223 bolt face so they can run full pressure in an AR15, whereas the Grendel case is limited to 52,000 psi due to the locking lug strength. The 30 BR is a 308 bolt face and I know its been done before but the bolt thrust is way over the design limit of the AR15 locking lugs. I think they make a special large diameter bolt and barrel extension or something for it.

Here is another one I forgot about, 30 Herrett AR. Its a 6.8 spc resized in a 30 herrett sizing die. The 30 Herrett was originally a wildcat for the contender pistol. You can see a loaded one to the left in my signature image. Its a peach.

http://68forums.com/forums/showthread.php?49363-30-Herrett-AR

Sorry to keep dragging the AR15 into it, thats the only platform that interests me in such a cartridge.

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Generally that would be true for me as well, tho honestly i have little interest in the ar15 these days, but recently ive had this urge to build a model 7 in some weird chambering. My initial thought was a .250/300 class cartridge, but this thread got me looking at other options again.
Id also forgotten about the 30 Herrett AR, someone suggested that to me a while back when i was looking at my 300aac project i think. That one would be a good option as well.

There is always the 30 Remington AR. If we are looking at less popular cartridges. At least it is a factory round, rimless, and designed to feed from a magazine.

IronHand

The 30RAr would be an excellent choice, but its deader than dead at this point. Brass is going for as much as 5 bucks a casing, and there isnt another case it can be formed from as far as i know.
you MIGHT be able to get away with shortening .284 brass but the 30Rar uses a rim about .019 wider, so extraction could be an issue.

Edit....i found some ammo listed on targetsportusa

Newtosavage said:

This discussion has made me do quite a bit of research. While not a .30 cal, I just found the most interesting story about the .280 British - a round that seems incredibly useful for hunting to me.

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/...ers-012-280-british-special-extended-edition/

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While talking about this thread and some ideas it brought up with my brother he mentioned the 280 British. Funny...

Joining this one late. Have just been waiting and enjoying the show. I do understand the point which is to reduce shooter fatigue from recoil which is cumulative. I.E. I can shoot 25 to 30 from my 30/06, but, 50 from my 250 Savage without recoil becoming an issue.

In most cases the people that shoot a lot are handloaders , so, they can Taylor a load to the recoil/power level they want. Those that would benefit from factory ammo with a reduced recoil cartridge probably still will not shoot all that much. To many people , after sighting in, a box a year would be a lot. This means the sales would probably not be great on ammo. This is a huge consideration to the manufacturers as production set up is very expensive . One reason 7.62x39 is popular is that cheap ammo is available for those that do not reload. Trying to make factory ammo to that price point would be impossible.

Marketing such a cartridge would be difficult. There just is not enough difference between the 7.62x39 and the 308 to exploit. Those that own either just are not going to run out and buy a rifle that splits the differs between the two. This would be especially true of those that are only occasional shooters. The best market would be individuals that do not have a deer rifle yet and that niche is not horribly large. I can also see many going with the 308 because it is enough for larger game. Even if we never go after larger game than deer most of want to and want enough rifle to do the job.

NTS the cartridge parameters you specified are valid and certainly would do a great job as a deer rifle. Americans are not as 30 caliber crazy as they used to be. In other calibers the niche you found is pretty well filled. For such a cartridge my thoughts would be a revival of the old 30 Remington. It is rim less so would feed from bolt or semi well. Also it seems to hit the performance level you want.

Of course these are just my Sunday morning ramblings and can read , ignored, or insulted as anyone sees fit. A lot of valid points in the thread.

You could always go get a savage 340 and have it reamed 30-30 AI. That’s really the only reasonable split the difference. $300 for a 340, plus a $80 ream. I can’t remember if you have to tap for the scope mounts yourself or not the one I had was done already.

308 isn’t too much for deer. If an old 30-30 was perfect at 100 then 308 is perfect about 250.
Lots of solutions to the recoil:
1. Download it, close to starting loads are mild. You may be able to work up a load to a certain point where recoil suddenly increases. Maybe even up to solid mid range. I see it all the time if I’m paying attention to recoil and sound working up a load.
Working up a special load is less work and money than tracking down stuff to load a whole different caliber

2. Add some weight. A heavier stock decreases felt recoil.

3. Muzzle brake.

4. Some sort of recoil pad. Or a shooting shirt with leather patch on it. A shooting shirt makes a big difference if you shooting lots of heavy field loads hunting birds. As long as it’s got a good thick chunk of leather and not a flimsy decorative one.

5. A semi auto.

Lots of solutions far better than some sort of wildcat or extremely unpopular clambering.

Start shooting 30-06 then you will feel 308 is a reduced load and In-Between.

Newtosavage said:

JohnKSa, I have shot quite a bit of 30-30 LeverEvolution factory ammo from my Win 94. I get 2350-2400 fps out of that 20" barrel. The BC for the 160 grain FTX - a bullet I use a lot for 30-30, .308 and 7.62x39 because of it's accuracy and ability to expand well at lower velocities - is not great but not bad either (.330)

My particular Win 94 must have had some trigger work done (or I just got lucky) as it's a particularly accurate levergun. 2" at 100 is routine, but things start falling apart after 200 yards pretty quick. I'd never take a 250-300 yard shot at a deer with it.

Right now, I'm tinkering with 165 SST's over CFE BLK in my 7.62x39 and the results are pretty impressive. 2250 MV with a BC of .447 gives me over 1100 ft. lbs. of energy at 300 yards. If I can get the accuracy I am after (and so far I have) it will replace my beloved 30-30 for everything but short-range packs of pigs.

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I was a bit of an a$$ earlier. Personally, I don't have a purpose for this cartridge you are proposing. If i don't to carry a 308, I use my 6.8, 458 SOCOM or (now) my 6.5 Grendel. I don't see a need for a mid-range .30 cal cartridge, but honestly, any growth in the gun industry is good growth. Every cartridge that goes mainstream sells more rifles, more ammunition, more brass and components and increases the strength of 2A friendly manufacturing. This allows manufacturers to spend more money on advertising and bring more shooters into our ranks.

All that said, as you are a reloader, I can understand your desire for this mid-range cartridge to be .30 cal and thus keep commonality among components. I apologize for my brashness.

Newtosavage said:

Hey, no worries. Thanks for the apology and as luck would have it, I handled my first 6.5 grendel today. I can see the usefulness for this little round for sure. My 7.62x39 Lapua brass holds 28 grains of CFE BLK powder to the base of then neck, but about 32 grains can fit in that Grendel. Same bolt face too. I see a 6.5 Grendel barrel in the future for my little Savage.

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With the stronger action you can run the pressure up higher than in an ar also.

I used 8208 in my grendel, but velocity ran short of cfe223, and accuracy was the same. Still a good powder, especially if you already use it in other cartridges.

Newtosavage said:

I'd love a bolt action rifle that pushed a 150-grain .308 bullet to about 2600 fps. with tolerable recoil.

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With that in mind about all I can come up with is the 300 Savage which in a few years will be about 100 years old. Personally I see the 30-30 Winchester and the 7.62 X 39 as effective 200 yard cartridges, the 300 Savage will get you out to about 300 yards comfortable. You can get your 150 grain .308 bullets out at 2600 to 2700 FPS without much effort. The parent case for the 308 Winchester was the 300 Savage and likely nothing really new will fill a .30 caliber niche as there is not much niche to fill. During the early 2000 years the WSSM (Winchester Short Magnums hit a popularity on their release but I don't see many people going for them these days and if I am not mistaking the family was a spawn of the 404 Jeffery a non belted magnum cartridge having a rebated rim. When all is said and done I seem to keep coming back to the 300 Savage. As to improving on the 30-30 Winchester? Over all the years there have been several attempts to improve terminal performance, the 7-30 Waters, the .307 Winchester, and the .308 Marlin Express none of which took the fields by storm. About the best thing to happen over all the years was likely Hornady's Leverevolution line of ammo and that took a powder developed by Hodgdon and a really ballistic coefficient bullet. The specially formulated powder and bullet combination was likely the best improvement in about 100 years. Anyway, if I were looking for something new in the nich, which I am not, it would be a 300 Savage.

Ron

Lots of good suggestions. Personally I don't see a need and definitely there would not be a market.