Something between 7.62x39 and .308...

I think the market would be found by making it fit in an AR.

I haven't read the full 7 pages.
300 sav is in the area you want.. but not that common so you rejected it.
x39 is a 30-30 with spitzers.. so its out.

The difference between a 30-30 and 308 for a 150 gr projectile is what... 500 fps? That really isnt large window you're looking at. Starting loads for 150 gr 308 using bcl-2 or imr 4895 are right there in your 2600 fps range...

I forget his name on here, but he used to go by krochus.. he did up a stevens 200 with a custom chamber.. he called it 7.62x39 largo for a bit.. basically an ai x39. If you google 7.62x39 bench gun.. you'll see it on several forums. He had to open a 223 bolt face if I remember right, and he reamed his own chamber...

someguy2800 said:

I think the market would be found by making it fit in an AR.

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Perhaps, but again thr 30RAr flopped hard.
If it could be done with standard parts i think your right, but getting that much hp out of a standard sized ar bolt would be tough imo.

yes, but recoil is relative to energy.. with the same projectile, you cut recoil by 25%, you cut effective range by more. Id argue the effective range on a 308 is quite a bit more than 200y longer than x39.. but i stick to the 1k ft lbs rule of thumb.

The reason i dont see the middlings developed in 30 cal is there are better bc stuff available in smaller calibers that fit that niche. America seems to be waking up to the 6.5 quite a bit. If i wanted to keep those specs and run 400+ yards effective range, there are already very proven calibers to chose from so the market appears to be leaving 308 behind and very successfully pushing the smaller, ballistically superior calibers.

260 rem, 6.5 creed, 6mm creed, 243, 7mm 08. I feel theyre in right to be focusing on that space.. I dont get the want for 30 caliber explicitly.

What you're looking for is either the .300 sav, or 30-40 krag, they'll both got er done, and in a model 99 that 300 is a beauty of a deer gun. Used both of em for awhile, never will say nothing bad about them, but they'll never make a comeback.

I suppose the question really should be why isn't there a super performance 762x39 being loaded commercially? It seems there could be factory ammo with 150ish bullets around 2400 mark from 20"+ barrels without too much fuss. Would pretty much resolve the question. Maybe just lack of demand since so many x39 rifles are AK and SKS platform used as plinkers.

Newtosavage said:

Again, I'm not really looking for anyone to "solve a problem" and certainly not my problem because I can hand load a 7.62x39 or a .308 to get what I want. Threads like these certainly bring out the problem solvers though!

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Newtosavage said:

What I'm wondering is that with us 'Merican's love for the .30 cal, and with the proliferation of new cartridges these days, why on earth hasn't someone come up with a practical, modern equivalent of the 30-30 in a bolt action rifle? Something that has plenty of steam for whitetails at any practical range but is a pleasure to shoot all day if a person so desires, and still uses our "beloved" .308 bullets?

I'd love a bolt action rifle that pushed a 150-grain .308 bullet to about 2600 fps. with tolerable recoil.

Seems like it would sell. Or am I way off base?

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My point was not solving problems but rather "us 'Mericans" already been there done that and the fruits ripened, gave birth to our modern .30s and died shortly thereafter, they DID sell >100 years ago, and have since been relegated to too small of a population's needs when so many other cartridges are so much more efficient. You could load a btip into a .30-40 and knock over a deer easily at 500 yds with good marksmanship, but the bullet technologies came along too late I'm afraid.

Also, even if you don't handload the light loads for the .308, there are still factory light loads for anyone not looking to sacrifice frontal diameter, (cuz gotta have a .30 for Bambi) https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1...nition-308-winchester-125-grain-sst-box-of-20

the one on the left

^ YEAH! DAT ONE!

Ooh! I like!

NTS. Your right about the 280 British. I have wanted one every since I first saw it COTW 30 years ago. It would fill the exact same niche as your suggested 30 cal cartridge. Lighter bullet smaller in diameter than your proposed 30. Would be about the same speed 2500-2600 fps. Us gun guys are Wierd lol

Newtosavage said:

A 300 Creedmoor on the other hand... Or perhaps a 7.62x39 AI... LOL

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LOL with you. The noticeable case taper of the .30 Rooskie Short (7.62 x 39) is by design.

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...45x39-and-7-62x39-enhance-reliability.328139/

Newtosavage said:

Yes, yes, I know - load the .308 down and call it a day. Been there - done that.

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This reminds me of the fellow who thought it wrong to wear a bow tie with a tweed sportcoat. I found myself thinking wait, what? What's wrong with that?

Attenuated ammunition for the .308 is offered over the counter and as you know it is an entirely reasonable home project as well. There are two kinds of weak .308, youth hunter type and the (weaker) sort for people who want to run a suppressor on a .308. I do not see this as a wheel useful to reinvent, but my bias is showing. The rifles I actually use for stuff are .22LR and .308WIN.

Newtosavage said:

So can I get a rimless .30-30 AI in a bolt action then?

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Less trouble to begin with the obsolete .30 Remington case, essentially a .30-30 that's rimless. It was the starting point for the 6.8 SPC, which appears to be a very good cartridge.

Yet another to look at is the .30 RAR, a rebated-rim cartridge based on the .450 Bushmaster.

Newtosavage said:

So can I get a rimless .30-30 AI in a bolt action then?

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Not sure what you mean? The 30-30 AI (Ackley Improved) was an improvement on the basic 30-30 Winchester cartridge. If you look at a 30-30 the cartridge has a very long neck. Ackley moved the neck juncture up reducing neck length and giving the shoulder a 40 degree angle. Ackley was big on steep shoulder angles if you look at any of his AI cartridges. This allowed about a few more grains of powder capacity. You take a 30-30 chamber and ream it out a little, then use standard off the shelf 30-30 ammunition and fire form the brass to the new chamber. You still have a 30-30 Winchester rimmed cartridge, nothing as to the rim changes. There are dozens of fine older 30-30 bolt guns out there, Savage and others chambered the 30-30 Winchester in many bolt guns.

Ron