HOWDA 58 Cal. (BP)

yes i use a side by side 44 right now I wish it was bigger for buck shot use but it is much more powerful than a revolver using the same amount of BP.
Its simple to use when i wake up a little groggy but mostly why i think its a good choice is because most of my night time,early morning home invaders
are 4 legged where a small charge of shot is a better choice than a ball.

I have a 10 gauge Pedersoli with 14" barrels and it is pretty fearsome looking and performance with 18 00 buck in each barrel and 75 grains of FF . However, in rainy season humidity and for storage until use of more than a couple months length I really don't trust it.

An incredibly bad choice for car or HD, given a multitude of infinitely more efficient guns available.
Denis

I've debated buying a cheap antique percussion SxS 10ga or 12ga muzzle loader and sawing it down. Cheaper than buying a Pedersoli Baker 12.

got the Pedersoli Magnum 10 bore cheap ($300) and it had a dent on lower part of one barrel , cut it back to the rear bead as your picture shows it's 14,5 inches on 10 guage
..

Assuming where you are you can't use a BP revolver,

I'd say a Howdah in 20 gauge would be better than .58 unless it's a .58 smooth bore (24 gauge). I'm an American LEO, but the principle of "how things look", aka the "optics" will help you in areas where prosecution is based on politics and skewed viewpoints than reality.

It's better in areas where you have flaming leftists that run the courts, to use something that shoots shot rather than something that shoots a solid projectile when defending yourself within a home or apartment, as most people do not realize how little a real wall will stop compared to what they've seen on TV or cinema. Blowing a .570 ball through a wall and into another's property OR an innocent person, may get you into trouble even though you were trying to hit a violent intruder.

It's better to use #4 buck shot than 00 buckshot for the same reason, and better even to use birdshot and a tight choke rather than buckshot.

WHY?

You're using a hunting load, not an anti-person load or a big game animal load. It's for "birds not people". A modified choke is good out to 30 meters. and most rooms in houses are not that long, so you'll be closer. In the case of a 20 gauge Howdah, which isn't a hunting shotgun so has no choke, it will be effective to about 20m, and a birdshot load in it would be for shooting " pests like rats, groundhogs/gophers, and badgers" (even if you used it in a populated area instead of a farm for self defense )..., rather than a ball or a buckshot load that some prosecutor will say is "to kill a human". #5 Shot will stop in most apartment and house walls.

Something to consider. Sounds like you're in an area that because of wishful thinking on the part of lawmakers, the law aids folks committing violent crimes, not the innocent.

LD

I’ve seen an online test of birdshot and it was found to under penetrate. I’ll see if I can’t track it down and post a link.

Not what I had read before but still makes the point (for me) despite they advocate 7 1/2 shot for home defense.

“Our final test was a 12-gauge field load of No. 7 1/2 shot, a 1 1/8-ounce load running at 1,250 fps. This load entered the first layer of sheetrock, making one hole that was about 3 inches in diameter. It exited that wall completely, but merely splattered on the surface of the second wall. People in that second room would likely have been hit with birdshot, but it would probably not have been life threatening.”

Those small pellets that can just barely get through a little sheetrock aren’t going to penetrate a body very far.

https://www.shootingillustrated.com/articles/2017/4/12/buckshot-vs-birdshot-for-home-defense/

Of course #4 will do a little better but I’d start with buckshot if not a patched ball or short conical with a wide meplat.

Can a .50 cal with saboted modern .45 cal bullets be used? They are at least designed not to over penetrate too much if they do.

I think so. A 20/20 gauge Howdah would be even better, but a .58/.58 would be good, too. Only two shots but they are devastating! Be sure to keep the gun clean and dry if you keep it loaded in the car. No reason it couldn't be used for car defense. Keep it loaded with buck or ball, or both!!

Bagheera said:

.
Why do you have the union jack as ur picture

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Because that's NOT the Union Jack........notice there is no red X from corner to corner, as in the Union Jack. That's a King's Color, because Ireland did not join the United Kingdom until 1801 when the red X was addded to the previous flag, with the previous flag being a combination of the Cross of St. George, and the Cross of Saint Andrew. I portray an American who remained "loyal" to the English Crown, during the American War of Independence, when I take my muskets to a battle reenactment...hence the name Loyalist Dave, and why the older version of the British flag, is my avatar.

LD

Loyalist Dave said:

Because that's NOT the Union Jack........notice there is no red X from corner to corner, as in the Union Jack. That's a King's Color, because Ireland did not join the United Kingdom until 1801 when the red X was addded to the previous flag, with the previous flag being a combination of the Cross of St. George, and the Cross of Saint Andrew. I portray an American who remained "loyal" to the English Crown, during the American War of Independence, when I take my muskets to a battle reenactment...hence the name Loyalist Dave, and why the older version of the British flag, is my avatar.

LD

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So you are a Redcoat?

Indeed sir. Somebody has to play the bad guys.....

LD

Loyalist Dave said:

Indeed sir. Somebody has to play the bad guys.....

LD

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That’s great! Funny how some times your enemy can become your good friend!

Bagheera said:

I have to say , it s great to see people who really understand and seek the public safety as much as their own..
Huh responsible people I guess.
This detail of buck vs bird has been debated by only conscientious shooters..
Birdshots will send anybody to hell 2 yards away I guess but~ 7 yards was what I ve learned as a kid..
Buckshot on my saddle..
Now the howdah starting to fade away in the conversation;
It's alright tho.u wanna birdsVSbucks did you see that?
Yes, it's effective but I always think
Wolves are coming in packed and jacked up,also I don't have kids and most available shotguns are rifled out here..



D..mn I like this brother.

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I finally watched most of this video. What I noticed is his showing whether or not burst shot can penetrate a few inches of meat. Granted, with larger shot, this creates a nasty bleeding wound, but our FBI set standards after using ammo they thought did well enough and set that to a higher standard. No police force, or military branch, uses bird shot in their shotguns. If they are so effective why wouldn’t they? They do even use any buck shot without a 0 in front of it.

Granted their ranges likely differ from someone defending their home, but birdshot has never been used in any real form of deference from anyone other than a homeowner for good reason.

I’m believe the smaller #4 buck is about ideal in that you get pellet saturation without too much over penetration from those that may not have hit the target (moving no doubt).

I’ve seen the X-rays of the poor performing Glaser safety slugs filled with bird shot. They sucked. They didn’t penetrate any more than those bird shot shells in his duct taped meat packages a few inches thick. Can’t say for sure but none of those instances where every fatal. May work on many but not one who’s determined.

Oh, and this is from a full length shotgun using modern powders. No where near the same with a shorty BP gun. Not at all.

But that’s your arse involved and not mine.

So now I’m Googling this. First find:

“Tacoma police said a homeowner shot a would-be burglar in the face with a shotgun this evening when he tried to break into a home through a window.

The shooting occurred just before 6 p.m. at the corner of S. 14th and S. Madison streets.

“The homeowner fired a shot and hit the suspect in the face,” police spokesman Mark Fulghum said.

Officers used a K-9 team to search the home and make sure nobody else was inside. Police initially reported that there was a second suspect but they now believe the injured man was the only person trying to break into the house.

The would-be burglar was taken to St. Joseph Hospital in Tacoma. He is expected to survive.”

Shot in the face at close range. Granted this could have been something tiny from a .410. Regardless the pellets generally travel at a similar speed and would penetrate just as much just with more or less of them. Doubtful a .410 or 28 ga was involved...

Here’s another:

https://www.outdoorhub.com/stories/2015/03/18/mad-gun-science-birdshot-effective-home-defense/

Seems only the birdshot was tested but still shows inadequate penetration. A nasty wound it REALLY close but not something debilitating in the time frame one would home if needed.

My Google search was for police reports using bird shot. Nothing. But then these searches too often seem like the old Bing commercials for me. Anyone else?

Bagheera said:

Hey Dave, if u're a subject of the queen u can call me Lafayette..somebody gotta do the French guy too..(high rank tho)
Wait I'm brown, it wouldn't be to convincing of a reenactment

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Actually Sir, I would a loyal subject of The King, His Royal Britannic Majesty, King George the 3rd (unless I'm doing F&I War, then it's King George II)..., Queen Charlotte, of course, is the King's gracious wife. There were plenty of people "of color" present in The New World that were subjects of King George III, King Louis XVI, or King Carlos III for that matter. British people would not call themselves "subjects of The Queen" until Elizabeth I in 1558, then in American history not until Victoria, beginning in 1837, and then again with Elizabeth II in 1952.

LD