ChanceMcCall
Member
Interesting. So if someone gets a CC permit in an "easy" county, is it honored in "hard" counties?
CCW thoughts
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Interesting. So if someone gets a CC permit in an "easy" county, is it honored in "hard" counties?
mljdeckard
Member
Crossbreed Supertuck. The only thing it won't work for is tight-fitting dress shirts. I prefer a looser fit anyway. A more breathable version of the same thing would be a Stealthgear. (If they would give me one for free, I would try it.) St. George Ut, 105 degrees. No problem.
Jeb Stuart
member
I would have asked him why he was rolling his eyes. Maybe there was another reason. As far as the 640, goes, it is a small revolver. Are they the best for a New Shooter? I bought my first Snubbie two years ago and really had to put some range time in the gun to get proficient with it.Two years of solid work each weekend. I have a friend whose wife first gun was a snubbie she bought because it had a pink frame. She does not train, and she cannot shoot it with any confidence. I see posters here recommending the LCP. That is a hard gun to shoot as well. Personally, I do not think any pocket gun should be carried unless a shooter commits to diligent training.
A large heavy gun for myself will never be carried. Just not practical. I have been CCW for 10 years now. I train often, now carry the Pico all the time, or the LCR9mm both in IWB without a holster. And I HATE IWB, but with the CLIPDRAW, no Problem. However, I would NOT recommend either one of those guns to a person that is new and will not train often.
For winter, I use to carry the LC9S, but have moved on to the Nano which I recently acquired. I carry the LC9 in a Mitch Rosen Pancake holster. Fits tight against the body, and really cannot feel the gun. Now I am looking for a holster for the Nano. (which might be a nice gun for her, small, easy shooter, mild, great trigger). JMO
In the world of CCW, there are always "CONCESSIONS". Weight, price, carry options etc. A drawer full of holsters will testify to how you change over time and morph into the best carry and Practical firearm.
Quickness of drawing, fast operation of the gun, fast center mass hits and on and on.
So my question if I were a instructor would be HOW MUCH TRAINING TO YOU PLAN TO PUT INTO THIS? Are you going to carry each and every day? ETC.
A large heavy gun for myself will never be carried. Just not practical. I have been CCW for 10 years now. I train often, now carry the Pico all the time, or the LCR9mm both in IWB without a holster. And I HATE IWB, but with the CLIPDRAW, no Problem. However, I would NOT recommend either one of those guns to a person that is new and will not train often.
For winter, I use to carry the LC9S, but have moved on to the Nano which I recently acquired. I carry the LC9 in a Mitch Rosen Pancake holster. Fits tight against the body, and really cannot feel the gun. Now I am looking for a holster for the Nano. (which might be a nice gun for her, small, easy shooter, mild, great trigger). JMO
In the world of CCW, there are always "CONCESSIONS". Weight, price, carry options etc. A drawer full of holsters will testify to how you change over time and morph into the best carry and Practical firearm.
Quickness of drawing, fast operation of the gun, fast center mass hits and on and on.
So my question if I were a instructor would be HOW MUCH TRAINING TO YOU PLAN TO PUT INTO THIS? Are you going to carry each and every day? ETC.
Mindset > Skillset > Toolset
If the snub nose revolver is what you are familiar with and good with, go with it. You have the skillset for it already, which trumps a 'better' gun.
BUT it is limiting to only have 5 (or 6 rounds). Unless you are the proverbial Chuck Norris carrying a 4-leaf clover and an anti-Murphy token, you could come up with with only 5 rounds no matter how well you do. So I'd check out some higher capacity semi autos and start shooting one of them to build proficiency with it and get it added to your carry options at a later date, whilst maintaining ability with the snub nose.
If the snub nose revolver is what you are familiar with and good with, go with it. You have the skillset for it already, which trumps a 'better' gun.
BUT it is limiting to only have 5 (or 6 rounds). Unless you are the proverbial Chuck Norris carrying a 4-leaf clover and an anti-Murphy token, you could come up with with only 5 rounds no matter how well you do. So I'd check out some higher capacity semi autos and start shooting one of them to build proficiency with it and get it added to your carry options at a later date, whilst maintaining ability with the snub nose.
Armored farmer
Member
my LCP and my son's Kimber micro.I was pleased that my old LCP kept stride with the Kimber.
Why would you not take a "CCW pistol course" with your CCW pistol?
Zerodefect
member
Because it's a pathetic LCP that would have failed the shooting portion of the class. LOLz. I would have missed alot during my class with my poor J-frame, P380, or useless Kahr P380.
It took a while, but I finally have enough CCW experience to carry a capable 4" pistol comfortably. The Kahr is only for days I'm certain I won't need a pistol (because it's about as effective as a small, very small knife or fingernail clippers)
It took a while, but I finally have enough CCW experience to carry a capable 4" pistol comfortably. The Kahr is only for days I'm certain I won't need a pistol (because it's about as effective as a small, very small knife or fingernail clippers)
Jeb Stuart
member
I agree, a LCP for instance is useless. Unless you actually train diligently with a pocket gun. I would not dare carry one for any reason if I did not train with one. And train on a regular basis. And Proper training and CCW would be to qualify with drawing the gun, and hitting center mass in three seconds Or "under" at 7 yds. I have watched people at ranges for years shooting pocket guns and other guns. Always the finding the proper stance, slowly raising the pistol, taking the time to acquire the target, slowly squeezing the target to the point that in real life they would be dead 10 times over. Pocket guns iMO are for advanced shooters, they require a totally unique set of skills. People are buying CCW weapons like they are candy these days.
Ok you said the LCP is pathetic and your useless J-frame, or useless Kahr P380 as well. Yes you are correct they are useless and stupid to carry. But they are NOT useless if you have trained Properly with one. And I do not mean going to the range once a month. No CCW IMO should be carried safety unless you the carrier does in fact train on a consistent basis. Since when and why are Pocket guns always shot as "TARGET GUNS"? Should there be a qualification to pass a CCW? I would say hell yes. The old adage of FIRST RULE OF A GUNFIGHT IS TO BRING A GUN, MAYBE SHOULD BE, BRING A GUN YOU CAN ACTUALLY DRAW AND SHOOT FAST AND ACCURATELY.
Where is the responsibility of a CCW? A good instructor should point out the fact that just having a license and a gun is not all that goes into the equation. The cost is a whole lot of of money spent on ammo and time. It is expensive, time consuming and you will have to make sacrifices for consistent training. Are you sure you want to go forward?
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ancientnoob
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+1. Where can I subscribe? This is about the most honest thing I have ever seen written. I can not add or subtract anything from this quoted statement.
Zerodefect
member
I don't really want to carry less than a Glock 23 anymore. Maybe if I'm stuck in summer attire somewhere. But there's other options, and/or sometimes I'm just plain SOL for CCW in the summer.
I think that tells you that you need to ditch your current carry guns because they are not going to be effective for you
Not totally sure what you are referring to here...but there shouldn't even be a license required to carry a gun, let alone government mandated training or testing requirements
Zerodefect
member
Exactly my point. I can defend myself and family very well with a Glock 23. Anything smaller, nope, not at all.
The thread has moved off the OP's question to one of someone else's inadequacies with other handguns.
So, let's turn back.
1. Both a J frame and 1911 are fine handguns and totally shootable. Many experts carry J frames and with an appropriate load, they are not feeble. If you cannot shoot one well, it is you and not the gun. There are classes dedicated to J frame or other small revolver techinques, such as the ones offered by Claude Werner. Having been through that one, I would have no fears about carrying one. Crucial however, is continued practice. I shoot the J frames in matches to keep up the skills. In short range matches, designed for SD applications, I can hit what I want to, out to a reasonable distance.
The down side of a J frame is capacity. This drags us into the 'Is 5 enough debate?'. The answer to that is that it probably will be if the incident is a single opponent one. That is likely but not guaranteed. Also, if the range is shorter. That is likely but not guaranteed. There is a tendency among some to think that the modal gun fight (actually with no shots fired) will always happen and ignore the probability of being in a more extreme incident. You decide.
Some folks say they don't need more rounds unless they go to a bad place. That assumes a gun fight in a nice place will be a nice gun fight and you won't have to shoot more rounds. Where did that come from?
2. The 1911 is a joy to shoot. With 9 rounds, and a spare mag or two, you probably have enough rounds even for a more extreme incident (but who knows). The downside as mentioned, is that it takes a bit thought about concealment. Personally, I find it a touch too big but I can. For the same size gun, I can have more rounds in a Glock or similar strike pistol.
With training, one can shoot a 1911 or polymer gun quite well. The grip angle story is really just practice but a sort of pseudo-expertise posturing by some. I know excellent shooters who move between each with no problem.
3. One needs more practice than a CCW qualification course if you really want to be up to speed.
Last, the LCPs, Kahrs and other pocket guns will defend you, if you take the time to be competent. It is time consuming. However, the main variance is in the shooter. No gun is a magic solution if you can't do the job because of lack of skills.
So, let's turn back.
1. Both a J frame and 1911 are fine handguns and totally shootable. Many experts carry J frames and with an appropriate load, they are not feeble. If you cannot shoot one well, it is you and not the gun. There are classes dedicated to J frame or other small revolver techinques, such as the ones offered by Claude Werner. Having been through that one, I would have no fears about carrying one. Crucial however, is continued practice. I shoot the J frames in matches to keep up the skills. In short range matches, designed for SD applications, I can hit what I want to, out to a reasonable distance.
The down side of a J frame is capacity. This drags us into the 'Is 5 enough debate?'. The answer to that is that it probably will be if the incident is a single opponent one. That is likely but not guaranteed. Also, if the range is shorter. That is likely but not guaranteed. There is a tendency among some to think that the modal gun fight (actually with no shots fired) will always happen and ignore the probability of being in a more extreme incident. You decide.
Some folks say they don't need more rounds unless they go to a bad place. That assumes a gun fight in a nice place will be a nice gun fight and you won't have to shoot more rounds. Where did that come from?
2. The 1911 is a joy to shoot. With 9 rounds, and a spare mag or two, you probably have enough rounds even for a more extreme incident (but who knows). The downside as mentioned, is that it takes a bit thought about concealment. Personally, I find it a touch too big but I can. For the same size gun, I can have more rounds in a Glock or similar strike pistol.
With training, one can shoot a 1911 or polymer gun quite well. The grip angle story is really just practice but a sort of pseudo-expertise posturing by some. I know excellent shooters who move between each with no problem.
3. One needs more practice than a CCW qualification course if you really want to be up to speed.
Last, the LCPs, Kahrs and other pocket guns will defend you, if you take the time to be competent. It is time consuming. However, the main variance is in the shooter. No gun is a magic solution if you can't do the job because of lack of skills.
There's only one thing I can bring to this discussion and that is preparation. My 1st thought is go with what you've been shooting as your responses to threat will be more natural to you. However these are different times.
Regarding hd it's so very common these days to see that multiple assailants(heroin, meth, crack) are invading homes and destroying lives. It's not uncommon in the fairly rural region I live in to see as many as 5 criminals assault a home to steal and kill. For this reason alone I would strongly recommend you go with a higher capacity sidearm that you can transition to ccw as your primary platform.
Regarding hd it's so very common these days to see that multiple assailants(heroin, meth, crack) are invading homes and destroying lives. It's not uncommon in the fairly rural region I live in to see as many as 5 criminals assault a home to steal and kill. For this reason alone I would strongly recommend you go with a higher capacity sidearm that you can transition to ccw as your primary platform.
dickydalton
Member
3 different ways to carry a snub.
The Evangelist Cowboy
Member
A double action revolver in the pocket is going to be safe, it takes a considerable amount of pull before the trigger is actuated, alot of cops carried a backup that way, its not as unsafe as it sounds, the use of a holster is more for finish protection and not getting lint and gunk stuck in the action, heck even with a holster that still happens sometimes.
bannockburn
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Al-jim19
I believe the J frame revolver in the middle has a Barami Hip Grip or "Pistol Paddle Holster." That slight protrusion on the grip hold the gun in place on your pant's waistband.
I believe the J frame revolver in the middle has a Barami Hip Grip or "Pistol Paddle Holster." That slight protrusion on the grip hold the gun in place on your pant's waistband.
Vern Humphrey
Member
That's a good method of carry. I made a similar carry device for my M1911 from thin sheet aluminum. I cut it to fit under the right grip, but with a long "finger" pointing forward. Put it on the gun and bend the "finger" back so it's double, with the tip under the grip. Put the grip on top, and screw it down. Works great BUT it holds the gun against your sweaty skin. .
dickydalton
Member
That is an original "Clip Grip" on it. The revolver has a worn spot on the left side that aligns well with the rivet in a watch pocket in jeans. When I bought this 1964 S&W it showed signs of very little firing but a lot of pocket wear. It carries well inside the waistband also.
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