MILSURP guys- what is the current "good deal"? Is there one?

Poorly (and sometimes not so poorly)sporterized rifles...... they usually still go "BANG" and normaly shoot ok.

The "best" recent deal was Mosin Nagants and that was several years ago for around $100 each. I wish I had a pile of money 20 years ago and I'd be a wealthy man today just selling milsurps.

kwg

kwg020 said:

The "best" recent deal was Mosin Nagants and that was several years ago for around $100 each. I wish I had a pile of money 20 years ago and I'd be a wealthy man today just selling milsurps.

kwg

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Mosins were the last ones, and AK kits back before the barrel restrictions.

kwg020 said:

The "best" recent deal was Mosin Nagants and that was several years ago for around $100 each. I wish I had a pile of money 20 years ago and I'd be a wealthy man today just selling milsurps.

kwg

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You don't say... I recall seeing the cardboard drums full of milsurp rifles (Enfield, Mosin, K98, M1, M1 Carbine) at Roses and Nicholls... Unfortunately, I was in the Army at that time and stretching a paycheck was a full time job. If I had a handful of the money then that I had now, I'd be sitting pretty!

Jeff B.

Currently, I don't see any screaming C&R bargains. SOG has Mosins for $260 and Yugo SKS's for $460. AIM has refurbed Springfield 03-A3's for $930.

Probably a good picture of what's (not) out there. The coming returned Garand's via the CMP may be the next big event, but they won't be cheap.

Yeah, I remember those barrels of $50.00 guns.

I also remember making one dollar per hour, before taxes.

It balances out.

The only good deals I've seen lately are "lightly sporterized" milsurps that can be restored. (That means without barrels being chopped, receivers drilled for scope mounts, etc.) How good a deal depends on how cheaply you can find the replacement parts. Now, if you were planning to sporterize the gun anyway this doesn't apply.

The underlying cause of the dearth of milsurps, besides import restrictions, is that there just aren't many of them out there any more. Countries have long since gotten rid of their bolt actions and early semiautomatics. The last repository was the former Soviet Union, and that's pretty well dried up.

FL-NC said:

its no wonder the AR15 is the most popular rifle in the US!

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Yup. I can buy an entire AR15 rifle for the cost of one case of ammo for my M1 Garand. =(

FL-NC said:

M1 carbines starting at $800

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Show me an $800 carbine, and I'll ay shut up and take my money. I haven't seen a carbine for under a grand in long time.

I picked a a good variety back in the 90s when the imports started coming back in and the prices low. Now I don't see anything I'd call a deal. You can buy a new modern bolt action cheaper than most milsurps. So unless you want one get a modern rifle in a common round. Surplus ammo isn't a bargain anymore either.

The first rifle I bought was an Ithaca Model 49 and I believe I paid $26 for it. I was maybe 14.(1966)
Just remember to compare those inexpensive rifles to the wages of the time. In 1966 with a minimum
wage of $1.25 per hour the weekly gross was $50 and it took 2 1/2 day of work to buy my $26 rifle.
With inflation and a minimum wage of $9.69 calculated for inflation one would only have to work 2/3 of
a day to pay for the same rifle. Those $50 rifles in a barrel at Sears were not cheap compared to the wages of the time.

Edited to read: $26 in 1966 would be $204 in 2018 so the amount of time spent working for the money to pay for the same rifle in 2018 would be about the same.

Ramble on says my keyboard.

Never discount anything for sale at CMP. The M1 Garand should be the hottest ticket on the market.

The great era of military surplus firearms is pretty much gone. Sporterized milsurps or mismatches on part numbers are probably the cheapest but even there folks are buying a lot of these and disassembling them for parts sales as the supply of spare parts has vanished. Scarcity drives the prices upward as there probably will be no more great stashes of supply. Skip on rifles that are in poor condition (wall hangers) or thoroughly bubba'ed unless you buy them very cheap.

If you simply want a shooter, they are around via altered firearms, you can, as others note above, restore one if you want. But, it will never be worth what an original piece in good condition is and increasingly the parts to assemble such a rifle make it a losing proposition money-wise for the short run. Parts mismatched rifles, lightly sporterized rifles, etc. can be great shooters but generally are disdained by collectors and will appreciate in price much more slowly.

If you are a potential collector that wants to make money out of the hobby, buy what you can afford on milsurp oddities from someone who does not know the subvariant rarity (for the best price) in the best possible condition. Knowledge of these rifles and how to determine such is very important, examples are Ex Dragoon or Finn rifles in Mosins, NSA or SSA made No. 1, Mk. 3 Enfields, 1894 Krags, Mossberg M44 .22 LR Training Rifles, and Russian SKS's, and so forth. Be flexible, but buy for scarcity. Most pricing manuals do not cover odd variants that many true collectors find intriguing-some of these will pay quite a bit for a odd variant that they are lacking to complete their collection. Even poorly made Chinese copies of Commission Rifles and Mausers are bringing collector money as to complete a collection (I would never shoot such a thing personally). The main rule to make money as a collector is to evaluate each potential purchase unemotionally as an investment and that also means selling/trading when the opportunity exists, not as an excuse to collect more.

I remember as a kid barrels of $11 .310 Martini Cadet rifles and dump tables of $8 cosmoline covered Carcano's. I did manage some bargains with an $89 Swedish Mauser rifle, a $79 1938 Swedish Mauser short rifle, and a $99 Norinco SKS. Alas, the Mausers were both sold off for a "great" profit, laughable now. At least I still have my $75 Underwood M-1 Carbine.

For some reason the Mosins held no interest for me.

I bought my first milsurp rifle, a 1916 Spanish Mauser in 1984, or 85, for $75. I really didn’t get heavy into milsurps until 2007. There were still a lot of good deals back then, but like others have said, things are drying up. Now this doesn’t mean that all the good deals are gone. You just need to know where to look.
Local Gun Store and Pawn Shops are two of the best places to hunt for deals. Now don’t think that you can stop in every two or three months and find that deal. You need to make those weekly stops. Sometimes you will find Surplus guns priced high but sometimes low. The low price ones will move fast. But don’t give up on the over priced ones. After they have sat on the rack for a month or two, make an offer.
The biggest mistake I see buyers making is educating the seller. I guess it makes them feel important that they are able to pass on their knowledge, but all they are doing is raising the price in the shop they go to. So don’t educate the guy you are buying guns from. Let him educate himself.
Now when it comes to restoring milsurps that have been sportarized. This is not always cost effective. Most often you will have to replace the stock and the barrel bands. Most stocks will cost you $75 to &150 and the bands and bayonet lug and cost you another $50 or $60. But if you’re like me and have plenty of spair parts the cost of restoration will not be so high.
Another place to find deals is at the gun shows. You need to have money in your pocket and watch for the guys that come to the show to sell the old guns they don’t want.
There are deals out there, you just need to keep your eyes open and go hunting. Here are some of the deals I have scored in the last three years.
Two S&W Victory Models. US Navy $400 the other $190 +$60 to restore it. Both from pawn shops.


French MSA 1873, $350 at a pawn shop.



Webly Mk6 in 455 Webly for $300 at a pawn shop.



Russian SKS $350 at a pawn shop.


Yugo M48 $200 at a pawn shop.


Brazilian 1908 Mauser $200 from someone l bumped into.

boom boom said:

The great era of military surplus firearms is pretty much gone. Sporterized milsurps or mismatches on part numbers are probably the cheapest but even there folks are buying a lot of these and disassembling them for parts sales as the supply of spare parts has vanished.

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This.

All the large armies started moving to select fire after WWII so the next generation of milsurps will not be available to us without a dramatic change in laws. American and European guns were drying up by the 1980s. The influx of former Soviet arms in the 90s-00s have mostly run their course. Maybe China will get back in good graces and dump the old Peoples Army stockpiles on us, but wouldn't count on it.

I would keep in mind these things have a life cycle. Large caches dropped into the supply chain with low prices and relatively low demand. General public calls them junk. As people buy up the cheapies and tell others how awesome they are, slowly people come around. Reputations improve, supplies dry up, and they become sought after by a vocal group of collectors. I would note for the most part these old rifles are in calibers for which new guns arent being chambered in large numbers so once the suplus ammo is shot up, feeding them gets expensive and the appeal wears off for the general shooting public and they end up strictly a collectors item. Just keep in mind those guns don't simply cease to exist. They are everywhere sitting unused in safes and closets across the country.

What we do have now is fantastic selection of inexpensive accurate new rifles. Whether a bolt hunting rifle or AR, they are definitelty the current bargain if someone is specifically looking for something fun and economical to shoot.

D.B. Cooper said:

I haven't seen a carbine for under a grand in long time.

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Reading that caused me to check my Firearms Index.

I purchased my 2 Inland M1 Carbines during the first CMP wave back in Summer'07.

$495/ea ... and, quite frankly, I had to talk myself into paying 500 bucks for M1 carbines ...

... but in short order I was very happy that I had when I found them to be not only handy but surprisingly accurate.

I think that my poor initial assessment of M1 Carbines (prior to actually owning one) was an artifact of the experience that I had with a friend's M1 Carbine when I was, like, 18 years old. It was an unattractive, rattly, inaccurate POS (Point of Sale?).

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Most of the Milsurp Deals that I have seen recently are one-offs that I stumble across.

Oh, for the days, after the turn of the Millennium when we could go online and see cases of wonderful milsurps available for immediate purchase at rock-bottom prices. <sigh>

i hunt public auctions, and have found some very nice rifles-pistols and shotguns. know what you want and study up on them. a mint 1944 Swedish model 38 for 300.00, a very early S&W 1917 revolver with grooved hammer in very good condition for 600.00, a S&W K-22 made in 1950 in ex condition for 500.00, a S&W model 10 with 2" barrel round butt in ex condition for 300.00.

I think the most underrated milsurp right now price-wise is the Italian 1891 Carcano. Heck, they're cheaper than Mosins these days.

I was never really into the milsurp bolt guns so I always passed them up. I do wish I had bought an AK back when they were cheap, because I see no reason to pay more for one now than I can get a decent AR for.

I do really want an M1 Carbine. My FIL has one and I’ve let him know very clearly that I’ll buy it if he ever wants to sell it. Even if it’s not a “deal” I’d still like to keep it in the family.

I paid $69 dollars for my first Swedish Mauser. I remember I bought two boxes of the only 6.5x55 ammo I could find, Norma, and the ammo was as much as the rifle. One deal I really kick myself for not jumping on back in the day was a nice Rockola M1 Carbine with a giant USCG cartouche on the stock for $149. I later wound up with a pretty clean but plain jane Inland for $150 that has been a great shooter, but still. I don't think there is much surplus out there right now that is really a great deal...

I agree with Burt that right now inexpensive new bolt action sporters and AR's might be the current Best-deals.

The Turkish Mausers are a pretty good deal if you are after a shooter. My K Kale M 38 can put 5 rounds in the space of a Kennedy Half Dollar at 100 ft from a bench using the military sights. I just wish 8 mm Mauser ammo was cheaper.

The Turkish Mausers are a pretty good deal if you are after a shooter.

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I had a Turkish Mauser a while back that even with a dark bore would regularly shoot 2 1/2 inch groups at 100 yards with the stock sights.. Generally I'm not the greatest with stock military open sights so I'd consider that pretty darn good all things considered... That must have been one good shooting rifle 100 years ago.....

I think the Glory days are gone, as everyone has already stated.

But I see some decent handguns online like Maks and Star Model B for like $250... That's not terrible