Slugs Only: Stupid?

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Panzerschwein

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I've a Mossberg 590 here and am wondering how terrible of an idea using slugs would be compared to an AR for defense outside the home. I'm a shotgunner by nature and appreciate the reliability and simplicity of a good pump 12 bore. I own no semi auto rifles, only a few bolt action milsurps.

My thinking is I already have the Mossberg and am familiar with it and a slug can be effective to 100m or better, and the increased range of an AR or similar rifle wouldn't be a huge boon as legally justifiable shootings are rare that extend beyond such a range.

So what if I stuffed the Mossberg with Brennekes and used it as a truck gun? I've heard Louis Awerbuck kept his shotgun loaded with slugs only... might be something to it?

Thoughts??
 
Not stupid at all, but perhaps unnecessarily limiting. I am impressed with the very tight-patterning buckshot shells sold under the names of Federal FliteControl and Hornady VersaTite. They throw much tighter patterns than conventional buckshot shells. You get more distance before your pattern density goes to pot.

It surely does no harm to have some slugs available, but in light of the very short distances usual in legally justifiable self-defense shootings, they might not be necessary. Using buckshot retains the key advantage of the shotgun, multiple projectiles. Slugs turn it into a musket.
 
Better slugs than birdshot, IMO. If you decide to run slugs only, make sure you shoot it a lot to know where it hits. My 590 hits VERY HIGH with slugs. I have to put the bead below the belt buckle at 40 yds to get torso hits.

However, I'm with Kendal overall. A good buckshot load is less punishing to the shooter and more versatile (also probably cheaper for more practice?), and may be a better choice for a defensive situation. As you said you aren't going to be shooting an attacker at 50 yds plus. Probably.
 
I've a Mossberg 590 here and am wondering how terrible of an idea using slugs would be compared to an AR for defense outside the home. I'm a shotgunner by nature and appreciate the reliability and simplicity of a good pump 12 bore. I own no semi auto rifles, only a few bolt action milsurps.

My thinking is I already have the Mossberg and am familiar with it and a slug can be effective to 100m or better, and the increased range of an AR or similar rifle wouldn't be a huge boon as legally justifiable shootings are rare that extend beyond such a range.

So what if I stuffed the Mossberg with Brennekes and used it as a truck gun? I've heard Louis Awerbuck kept his shotgun loaded with slugs only... might be something to it?

Thoughts??

I would use tactical or managed recoil slugs with average muzzle velocity of 1200fps to 1350fps. These are available 12ga from Remington, Winchester, Feederal, Fiocchi, Brenneke.
 
I’m going to grab my shotgun for HD before I grab my AR, but it will be loaded with buckshot. I see nothing wrong with slugs if that’s what you want to use. I’d be equally afraid to go up against either.
 
My first gun was a Remington 870. My logic after doing a lot of research is that’s good 12 ga is an incredibly flexible weapon as you can shoot slugs, buckshot, birdshot and probably other stuff.

That said, in a vehicle, I prefer to have a concealed pistol as my primary weapon. In close quarters a pistol is much better than a long gun.

You’re point about ARs is partly right. Long range isn’t the only reason to have an AR. The standard 30 round magazine allows you to have a decent amount of ammo. So in an instance such as a mob, it might be the best option.

So, in an ideal world you’d have all three. But you need to decide what you’re comfortable with.

Remember the best weapon for the situation may not be the one you have. The next best is the one you have. So, any will work, just know the various trade offs and what you’re willing to give and take.

As for slugs vs shot. Again each has an advantage and disadvantage,
 
Don't forget the double tap. Firing a shotgun twice at the same point of aim doubles your pattern density. That doubles your likelihood of connecting at a longish distance.

Antique US Army doctrine from the WWII era said a shotgun loaded with 00 buck was good for 75 yards. That was probably a pine board test (testing lethal penetration) not a test of hit probability. They were using old style fiber wad shells that patterned none too well.

That assumed that whoever was behind and near your target was of no concern, because it was probably more of the enemy, but in the modern civilian context you need to consider Rule Four and hold your fire if the side spread or overtravel is going to make headlines.

http://shootery.blogspot.com/2013/06/gun-safetys-four-rules-dont-end-up-in.html
 
You’re point about ARs is partly right. Long range isn’t the only reason to have an AR. The standard 30 round magazine allows you to have a decent amount of ammo. So in an instance such as a mob, it might be the best option

In case of a riot, I would prefer the riot gun. Thirty projectiles can be launched out of a 12 gauge with one press. (The common #4 buckshot load is 27 pellets.) They will not be the high-velocity bullets of the AR but tend to arrest one's attention none the less.

An old trick is to fire non-lethally (as one hopes) by firing at the pavement ahead of the mob, which with round balls generally impacts in the feet, ankles, or shins.
 
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Using what you are familiar with for self defense is a smart decision.
Nothing wrong with slugs either as long as they are accurate in your gun.
 
If you hit what you are aiming at well no problem.

It might not be the best idea if you live in a densely populated area. If you're in the sticks go for it.
 
I prefer a rifle, whether an AR, or a levergun.

But as far as slugs go, if you can put them all on a small plate on demand at your desired maximum range, Brenneke is the way to go.
 
I have my HD shotguns loaded with 00 buck in a city hood. But if you want more range slugs are fine. Get some of the sabot slugs and your good to 300yds. My son's Mossberg 500 with rifled barrel puts 3 Hornady SSTs in touching clover leaf at 100yds. I think that would shock the S*** out of someone who thought they were out of shotgun range.
 
Not stupid at all, but perhaps unnecessarily limiting. I am impressed with the very tight-patterning buckshot shells sold under the names of Federal FliteControl and Hornady VersaTite. They throw much tighter patterns than conventional buckshot shells. You get more distance before your pattern density goes to pot.

It surely does no harm to have some slugs available, but in light of the very short distances usual in legally justifiable self-defense shootings, they might not be necessary. Using buckshot retains the key advantage of the shotgun, multiple projectiles. Slugs turn it into a musket.
Muskets that connect are extremely deadly.

But I think there is merit to what you point out. Traditionally, 000 or 00 buck patterns out past about 15 yards or so start to exhibit big gaps. If you can maintain a pattern where all pellets impact the upper torso farther out odds are lookng much better.
 
The only advantages are that the shotgun is less expensive, and is less likely to be seen as an evil gun. You're looking at about 30 ft lbs recoil vs 5 ft lbs recoil with every trigger pull with 1/6 the ammo in a less accurate weapon that costs about 6X as much per round to practice with.

But other than that, yea, it'll work. Would be about my last option, but it'll work.
 
Having hunted with a slug gun, you can do way better. The whole purpose of a shotgun is to fire multiple projectiles with pointed shot. A rifle is designed to fire one (or more) aimed shot(s). If you need to aim grab the rifle outside of 30 yards or so.

If you like and feel more comfortable with a shotgun it’s perfect. Flexible ammo options and cheap compared to an AR. However there is a reason cop cars and humvees have AR type rifles in them. As a weapon I’d rather have a Winchester 94 than a shotgun with slugs.
 
There is a reason the shotgun was replaced by the AR.

Less recoil, easier to aim, easier to add sights, lights, or can openers. While giving many more shots on tap in the free states.

Another big one that is overlooked is less penetration through dense objects with a light weight high velocity rifle bullet. High speed rifles punch through thin hard barriers better, which is why they do more damage to soft body armor or thin hard materials not rated to stop them, but they go through more overall medium worse.
An AR-15 firing the same number of rounds poses less risk to neighbors than a shotgun and especially a shotgun with slugs.

While both will go through walls pistol bullets actually penetrate more material and stay together longer than a light weight high velocity rifle bullet. Shotguns with slugs even more so. They will sail through a whole house and come out the other side and do it to the next house too. Especially if you are using solid harder alloy brenneke slugs instead of soft fosters. The harder brenneke may also do less damage than a softer slug that expands more on hitting bone and tissue, and the only thing it will do better is hold its shape and go through a lot more objects before it stops.
The lighter AR rounds can break up into many small fragments after hitting an appliance or piece of furniture or a brick and pose much less risk down the street. They have a lot of energy but less momentum. A slug keeps going through soft material until it has spent all that momentum. While both will do a lot of damage to soft tissue the AR is designed to dump all of its energy very fast, and the shotgun slug will punch a shotgun slug sized hole right through the target and a lot of things behind it. Both are serious wounds and will get the job done, but the AR puts the energy where you want it and less where you don't.
So an AR with light weight high velocity rounds does good wounding, will penetrate soft body armor better, and penetrate homes worse. While having 10% of the recoil, and you can readily put whatever you want on the gun from a light to a red dot to night or thermal vision or tritium iron sights and you can keep changing your mind and swapping things out on the rails.
The shotgun used to be much cheaper but now a decent shotgun is close in price to an AR-15, and many shotguns on the lower end new have burs and finish and fit issues. They are devastating and with slugs it is very much like a musket. That is not a trivial weapon, muskets were taking off entire limbs in the civil war.

Interestingly enough slug hunters on common game like deer actually pose more risk to people within range than a safe rifle hunter with a light caliber. The slugs will go through brush and small trees and hit things not in line of sight more readily. The rifle is only worse if people aim it above the horizon as they will go a longer distance but through less objects. A slug also weighs so much that even falling at terminal velocity fired straight up it can kill you, while a rifle round falling at terminal velocity may just bounce off you. The rifle requires an arc to come down with some of its original velocity to pose serious risk.

The most effective shotgun performance was also with standard loads. A lot of the reduced recoil rounds common today are even less powerful. I still like a shotgun but a shotgun with slugs, especially solid brenneke type, is a weapon you need to know what is in the direction you fire for hundreds of yards through multiple walls. Outdoors a rifle is much faster and more accurate at a distance, and a shotgun more versatile to safely kill things with less risk of dangerous ricochet at short range using shot.
 
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If you're more proficient with a shotgun, fine. I'd choose buckshot or birdshot before slugs. The recoil is harsh, and as you point out:

. . . a slug can be effective to 100m or better. . .

. . . the range is over 100 meters, even if the slug has drilled your bad guy, and your fridge, stove, outside wall, and/or car. They have a tendency to over penetrate a bit.

Buckshot, birdshot, or even 55gr rifle bullets, will stop sooner in obstacles.
 
In my opinion, #1 buckshot in a mod. choked 12 Ga. is a perfect home defense gun. hdbiker
 
Well my post was demonstrating the risks of penetration regarding slugs.
A shotgun is best tuned to what you plan to shoot with it.

Slugs and especially solid harder slugs like a brenneke design pose the most risk to a suburban environment of any common firearm. With risk close to big bore rifles. They will have more collateral damage risk per shot fired.
If you shoot at something on the street that slug will go through the target and through whatever is behind it, car or wall or person, and if the pavement is behind it skid off the ground and keep going down that direction with a lot of power. A brenneke also deforms less and does less damage to human or dog sized animals sacrificing wounding for increased penetration.

The only reason to use a brenneke is to increase penetration. A soft wide slug with a hollow base will have less momentum and deform more and penetrate say a grizzly bear, moose, or elk less than a solid harder round that retains its shape. This allows you to use a shotgun to kill things you would otherwise want a bigger gun for.
A normal foster slug will dump its energy faster and expand, so if it is going deep enough in your intended target it actually does more damage than a harder solid chunk of lead that barely expands but punches deeper. The only reason to use a brenneke in town would be to intentionally penetrate cars and multiple walls with ease on purpose because they actually do less damage to people, dogs, or other typical things you would use a shotgun for in a suburb.


Buckshot is harder to recommend because it operates best within certain ranges, and the size of the buckshot you want is based on the intended target and range. Home defense is easy because it is close range, and #4 may do the job and has great coverage without penetrating too far, #1 penetrates more reliably at those same ranges and also has good coverage, and 00 buck penetrates a little extra and sometimes a little extra can be better than not enough, but has poorer coverage.
The smaller the buckshot the less danger it poses to things further away and better coverage it gives to the target within its effective range, but the less effective it is at penetrating the target. Buckshot outdoors at 50+ yards will often send pellets places you were not intending and I think is a 25 yard or less tool. With special loads you can extend that to 40 yards, but it is not a free lunch, you suffer with very little spread or coverage at very close ranges. With that in mind 00 buck in such a special load is probably the most well rounded ammunition choice to be decent up close and good out to 40 yards.


It is the most versatile gun but not with a standard load, you change what it is shooting for each type of target.
 
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