Oliver North says Ritalin linked to school shootings

Its something worth being looked in to, along with why modern parenting methods seem to be producing a large number of thieves and killers, but with HIPPA rules, unless the parents tell you it'll be hard to find out what medicine(s) was being given. So unfortunately at this point it time it seem hard to see how Ollie could have facts to back up his assertion.

Lack of facts has never stopped our opponents, they just make them up and propagate widely with their media allies, but I hope we don't go down this road. As the old say goes if you opponent likes fighting in the mud and you like eye-gouging, you'll both end up eye-gouging in the mud!

In another life I was in close proximity with violent juvenile psychotics. Without fail, each and every one of them had been on Ritalin. Yes, it was a small sample, and yes, I know that correlation is not causation, but....

I'm not going to endorse Col. North's .... "diagnosis"... BUT, I will point out that many drugs administered to children have never been properly tested on children with immature brains, and the child may very well react differently to a drug than a mature adult. The idea that these children may have been acting abnormally as a reaction to a drug is not wild eyed conspiracy mongering, it is a hypothesis very worthy of being researched, if for no other reason to provide better treatment to children.
We don't know much about the El Paso Texas shooter's motives, or if he was on any medications at all. The only statements his parents have made indicate he was a nice quiet child .... but of course we cannot be totally sure that is an objective account.
I do think some of these school-aged shooters have been on some type of drug, but that doesn't mean all of them have been.
In the end, I fear the reality may be more complex than "it is drugs," or "violent cultural influences" or some other simple "bogeyman."

Its not totally out of the question.


https://www.rxlist.com/ritalin-side-effects-drug-center.htm#

Common side effects of Ritalin include:

• nervousness,
• agitation,
• anxiety,
• sleep problems (insomnia),
• stomach pain,
• loss of appetite,
• weight loss,
• nausea,
• vomiting,
• dizziness,
• palpitations,
• headache,
• vision problems,
• increased heart rate,
• increased blood pressure,
• sweating,
• skin rash,
• psychosis, and
• numbness,
• tingling, or
• cold feeling in your hands or feet.

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ETA: I agree that he shouldn't have said it with out something to substantiate it.

The guy who is hired for his messaging expertise starts with this? Even if true, that’s a dumb thing to say. He certainly doesn’t yet know if this shooter was on drugs.

The facts are on our side without guessing what might be.

Some version of this would work...It was tragic. It’s still very rare statistically, but my heart aches for those kids. We can do better. We can prevent it with security. People are messed up. We need to find and solve the cause of the problem, not just the symptom. We should secure our schools and we should seriously study the levels of violence in society and find the facts so we can make informed choices moving forward.

The NRA made a serious mistake with this guy.

In case many of us missed it, nearly every anti depressant and other mood altering prescription drug comes with a strong warning that it may cause suicidal thoughts. Not out of the question for those thoughts to lead into homicidal thoughts. Just sayin. But that being said, we should not be jumping to conclusions.

At last someone is getting this issue into the public arena. I predict it won't last long though - pharma sponsors much TV news media.

I think there is much more to this. Prior to the 60s, hardly any young kids on mind altering prescription drugs, and school shootings almost unheard of. Since then, ever increasing numbers of kids on them, and they are shooting up their peers at school in increasing numbers.

Not sure about ritalin, but quite few SSRI's have homicidal ideations and violence listed as side effects. The BBC did a great article on the Colorado batman theater shooter and how his whole attitude changed once he started taking anti-depressants.

Quite a few of these mass shooters are said to have been taking this class of drugs.

The problem with drugs that seriously change the chemistry of the brain is not just how they impact people while on them in the short term which is what most can better study, but how they impact people coming off of them, as well as alter the brain chemistry long term, especially in a developing brain.
Generally the body self regulates and reduces chemicals it produces that are similar to ones artificially being provided to it, and on a developing brain may never grow to produce them properly at all. So even ones that are beneficial may harm them permanently over time.

Often these guinea pigs will be tried on multiple different medications so some may damage the brain in different ways that compound each other.

Of course putting children on stimulants makes them study better. Putting adults on meth makes them study better too. Doesn't make it a smart idea.
These things are new to some of the US which didn't catch up for a decade or two, but forerunners like grand Kalifornistan has been doing it since the 80s. Drugging your children because they don't like being plastered to a chair all day has been a part of the liberal school system for awhile.

Drugging people that then have children and developing fetuses exposed to drugs currently being taken or still remaining in the system (and many take awhile to leave the system even if someone stopped taking them after learning they were pregnant) may also create yet more mental problems in the children of those people.
Yeah we play games way too readily with brain chemistry, and when the brains of a lot of our society get screwed up the inevitable result will be a reduction of other rights because too many people are too crazy or are only not crazy if you continue the regimen of a drug that maybe should never have been started in them or their parents.

Here is a Swedish study that seems to show people on SSRI's are almost twice as likely to be convicted of a violent crime.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/26372359/

Correlation doesn't show causation. I'd tend to say that children on Ritalin are often products of a troubled upbringing, and that products of a troubled upbringing tend to have issues later, as well, rather than trying to blame the Ritalin.

The only difference in the children that take such medication in CA as opposed to those that do not is typically parents that don't play along when the school officials suggest they go to one of the many physicians that regularly diagnose and prescribe it that the school system works with routinely.
Maybe that does mean those that take them more often have less involved or more young or naive parents that allow or agree to it happening?

Out here a kid that has some trouble in the classroom annoys the teacher who having dealt with it many times before knows the typical solution and suggests it. They don't have the time to spend extra attention on an individual student and if a drug can help they want the kid on that drug ASAP.
The diagnosis for ADD/ADHD is so easy that any young kid can be diagnosed with it if you sit them in an uncomfortable and boring Dr's office and wait for them to fidget, and there is claims the child has been having problems for awhile.
So if they have some problems and you want to give them a drug, you can diagnose any child with something to treat with that drug.
Diagnosing with a mental illness also opens up additional funding, which gives the school system more options, which bias them to getting people diagnosed and on drugs as well.

Of course, there's the other issue of misdiagnosis, too.
I personally suffer from minor but long-term depression. Thankfully I don't get the major emotional aspects of it (the parts that often lead to suicidal tendencies), but the minor ones (moroseness) come every couple years, slightly more often a complete lack of motivation, and slightly more still the mental effects: irritability, issues with short-term memory, and an inability to focus.
Some of these are similar if not identical to ADD of varying degrees, and in a minor are often diagnosed as such. Obviously, while ADD medication may artificially help the focus and motivation, it does not help and may even exacerbate the higher effects of depression.
That's a popular enough hypothesis to the rate of teenage suicide.

That said, is there yet any evidence that medication was a factor or even a possibility in this case? Don't jump on that without confirmation. That's exactly what happens when someone tries to shift the blame or find something to ban, and I for one prefer to focus on actual facts.

I think every human being should get depressed some of the time, especially if they live a mundane life that repeats the same thing over and over. Being depressed is your body's way of saying it doesn't like the cycle you are living and maybe you need to do more to regain that spark in your life than doing a blah unfulfilling lifestyle. Not fix it with drugs and continue to do the same thing.

I think why anti-depressants impact children and young adults so much more is they are in that time of life where social interaction and fitting in is a much bigger part of development and mental well being. By later adulthood people are trying to differentiate themselves more than fit in.
Drugs that try to make them content but actually work against them fitting in socially or mentally in forming connections with their peers make them snap more frequently by further alienating them without satisfying that need. It also changes their brain chemistry that if you discontinue or change the dose will lead to a lack of the chemicals they have adjusted to needing.
All while their bodies are growing and setting up the chemical balance and makeup they will deal with the rest of their lives as a baseline.

Zoogster said:

I think every human being should get depressed some of the time, especially if they live a mundane life that repeats the same thing over and over. Being depressed is your body's way of saying it doesn't like the cycle you are living and maybe you need to do more to regain that spark in your life than doing a blah unfulfilling lifestyle. Not fix it with drugs and continue to do the same thing.

I think why anti-depressants impact children and young adults so much more is they are in that time of life where social interaction and fitting in is a much bigger part of development and mental well being. By later adulthood people are trying to differentiate themselves more than fit in.
Drugs that try to make them content but actually work against them fitting in socially or mentally in forming connections with their peers make them snap more frequently by further alienating them without satisfying that need. It also changes their brain chemistry that if you discontinue or change the dose will lead to a lack of the chemicals they have adjusted to needing.
All while their bodies are growing and setting up the chemical balance and makeup they will deal with the rest of their lives as a baseline.

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I think you're "spot on". Our society is over medicated, it's an especially bad thing for young developing minds. It's not likely to change, the medical community in general is making billions of dollars feeding us unnecessary, dangerous, even deadly, drugs.
str1

You can't say the latest school shooter was on psychiatric drugs. However many reports show that most active shooters are. Don't you see the warnings on commercials for certain drugs that say "can cause violent behavior in young adults".

He, Oliver North, also listed other reasons such as youngsters growing up in a culture where violence is common place.
He listed such things as violent movies and TV shows and drug use.
There is not doubt that drug use is ramped in todays society.

Remember Occam’s Razor. So what has changed since the 60’s and 70’s? Answer: 3 things; Less parenting, more time spent inside playing video games, and more drugs being prescribed to our kids.

He could be right or he could be wrong, I suspect that he is at least partially right. At least he is saying something. For the year that Pete Brownell was president I don't remember hearing anything out of him other than a monthly column (I think it was monthly, for the most part I found it boring and didn't read it after the first couple of months). At least he is putting himself out there.

Personally, I think he has a point but for the wrong reason. Usually parents that allow the children to be prescribed Ritalin have children with behavioral problems. The Ritalin often stops the problems but doesn't really address the root causes of them. To use one of my uncles favorite metaphors… It's the equivalent of putting a Band-Aid on a sucking chest wound. It may stop the bleeding but it doesn't solve the problem. It stands to reason since the mental problem still exists, they will either get better with a will get worse. Either effect is masked by the effect of the drug.

It is easy to have all the facts, and still reach the wrong conclusions. Ritilan is a stimulant that helps keep kids with attention deficit disorders awake and focused in order to concentrate at school. It is not an anti-depressant. The vast majority of kids who take it do much better in school because of it with few or no side effects. In fact most of the side effects are the same as drinking large amounts of coffee in order to stay awake and focused. I've seen kids have some negative effects taking Adderall which is also used to treat ADD.

A large number of people who are involved in violent crime are, or at least were, taking drugs to help them with mental disorders. The vast majority function just fine as long as they are on the medication. It is when they combine prescription drugs with recreational drugs or alcohol that the problems start. Many of them who snap do so when they STOP taking their meds. Not because they were taking meds.

I'm open to more research on the problem, and this may be starting to look in the right direction.

NRA links school violence to Ritalin but experts deny link -- Associate Press Headline

Retired Lt. Col. Oliver North told "Fox News Sunday" that perpetrators of school violence "have been drugged in many cases" and "many of these young boys have been on Ritalin since they were in kindergarten."

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I notice that the AP article does not link to the interview or a transcript that the quotes were mined from.

[sarcasm] And as the poster showing a happy 1950s-looking family says "Ritalin! Much Easier Than Parenting!" (They ought to have one with a classroom "Ritalin! Much Easier Than Discipline!") [/sarcasm]

And the study cited a few years ago (I think I read about it on BBC) that had equal samples of ADHD kids, half treated with Ritalin and half treated by parents tutored by behavior modification experts. More improvement in behavior among the closely parented kids than among the Ritalined kids.

It does not take much Googling to find professional articles in legit journals that criticize over-reliance on drugging kids. Especially when stuff like Ritalin is treated like a literal magical pill and the kid with problems gets no other treatment or follow-up.

Now psychoactive drugs for kids may be a benefit to many, no harm to many, and the prescription of the drugs may be a sign (correlation) of the minority of seriously troubled kids and not the cause of the problem. It is still a link and Oliver North is not the first to point it out.

hdwhit said:

We're quick to point out when the anti-gun movement starts spouting nonsense. How about when the NRA's incoming president is spewing nonsense?

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Are the listed side effects of Ritalin and other psychiatric drugs nonsense?

What a moron he is. He has no medical or medical research background and he just spouts this stuff, not to mention the fact that anyone taking the drug already had some "issues" before they started, so saying the drug caused "behavioral issue" is ridiculous when the people on the drug are already suffering from issues.

Of course people using SRIs sometimes suffer mental difficulty; that is why they are on the drug in the first place. And of course we should forget the ten million helped by the drug because a very few people got a stomach ache or felt more depressed or elated while they adjusted their dosage or went on and off the drug against the protocols for standard usage..

Gee, people who use PeptoBismol are more likely to have stomach problems than other people. Yeah, DA, that's because they had the problem to begin with.

Gee, people who go to jail are more likely to end back up there than are people who have never been in jail. Gee........

And parenting and video games are the ONLY things that have changed over the last few decades?????

I am surprised someone has not brought up the old vaccinations cause autism argument to say vaccinations cause violence.

How embarrassing this whole thing is.